Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[GasparZizou]

PLEASE DON'T LOOK AT THE AUDIENCE SCORE! LOOKIE HERE INSTEAD!

So ****ing embarrassing.

 

[loki2371]

Rey can be special without any connections to the Skywalker bloodline or any of the PT jedi members.

Some might find this shocking, but I'm not a big Rey fan However, they could make her ancestors force users from the old republic days, thus opening the door for a movie that focuses on that era while keeping a loose connection to a main trilogy character (rey).

The problem I have, as do I feel many on here, isn't with Rey's lineage or who she descended from. I'm fine with her being a nobody. Would it have been cool if she was a Skywalker or Kenobi? Sure! But that's not what takes me out of the character. Her being a nobody is a good logical way to move on from the Skywalker line. The problem is what she can do.... She's the wunderkind. Perfect in everyway (the MarySue). Expert at everything.

Anakin was the chosen one, created from the force itself (midichlorians crap), yet he needed years and years (10 years between Ep1 & Ep2) of TRAINING from multiple Jedi masters, each excelling in different aspects of the force. He learned to drive a pod racer as a kid on his own. That's it. It was only his reflexes and intuition that were guided/influenced by the force that made him an exceptional pod racer for a human. The force didn't impart knowledge into him. And for those to argue, "but he just jumped in the starfighter, flew it, and blew up a federation ship!!" He had no idea what he was doing... He was pushing buttons and it was on autopilot taking him to the fight. Even said it in the movie. Yes it was dumb, but somewhat explained onscreen.

Rey just jump into the Falcon and is apparently as good or better than Han/Chewbacca... Resists Kylo's mind force probe and even turns it against him. Then immediately teaches herself how to mind control a FO Trooper to let her go. Picks up a lightsaber for the 1st time after using the force to bring it to her overpowering Kylo's own force pull, and then wields it better than Kylo (injured or not). I guess we're to take Snoke's "There has been an awakening line" to justify all this. If there was a prophecy about a "chosen one" who would bring balance to the force, then where's the prophecy of the "awakening" of an all powerful Jedi who is master of all with no training?

The problem is Rey should have been with Luke and actually been taught for a few months at least. But, whatever..... It's just not good storytelling. There's no investment in any of these new characters to care. The closest is Kylo, and meh...

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

#faqthissht

 

[Vault Boy]

Disney needs to grow the SW brand. They already have most of the worlds male demographic. Who they seem to think will watch no matter what. So now that they have that market saturated and can no longer truly "grow" in the boy/male segment, they need to target girls/females. Like I've said before, nearly every commercial for SW seems to focus on a female, not a male. It's the little girl, or the mom (Nissan Rogue) who are the focus while the husband and brother are the supporting role.

I don't have a problem with any of this. I have a wife and daughter who I wish enjoyed/cared about SW as much as myself and my son. But for me it's clear as day. Not sure how other's can't seem to see this. So Disney definitely has an agenda, which is even worse with Kennedy at the helm. If it's done subtly in the movies with good characters and good storytelling, very few would be complaining. But it's right there in your face clear as day. And for those who don't see it, that's an even a bigger win for Disney. They want people to casually accept it. They don't want people calling them out on it. It's like subliminal messaging directly into our subconsciousness. They want the masses to be "unaware" of the message they are peddling. And this isn't just Disney. Many companies are doing this today.

Exactly. The way that they're going about is actually insulting to women because, as the girl in the video explains, it's presupposed that they have to trash the men to make the women credible as characters.



Mr and Mrs Smith is a good example of how this is a false premise and is, in a way, sexist in of itself. In Aliens, did Corporal Hicks have to be marginalized so that Ellen Ripley could "wear the pants?" Hell nah. They both just do naturally. No tacky politics involved.

This is is so silly what's happenning.

 

[Darkseed]

Light rises to match the dark.

Luke turned himself off from the force therefore; the light had no equal to the dark ..... enter Rey.

Luke mentioned he only seen such power once before in Kylo. I took Rey’s assenting in the force so quickly was to match Kylo. I took what they said in the film. Whether folks like it or not is a different matter however; it’s how I took it

 

[Popnfresh98]

Bingo. That why I want Rey to be a nobody.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

See, I like the idea of Rey being a nobody too, it’s refreshing, but then it would require the script to work around that. However at this point she is the most gifted force user of all time, even more so than Anakin ‘chosen one’ Skywalker. It’s been shown one can be force sensitive but it requires training to attune into and accomplish the feats that come with that territory, outside of heightened instincts and some luck before that.

The mind trick is hard to master and a more advanced power, but Rey did it on day 1 just a few hours after touching the saber. And two days later she’s force lifting large boulders. She’s a lightsaber master already. Further her matching and exceeding Kylo twice within a week makes it so there is no tension for the showdown that must happen. And he’s been training since childhood under 2 very strong force users. Now if she was related (and they might retrofit this anyway as Rian said) it would solve those problems.

So it’s not about the idea being bad, but the logic that follows not holding up and destroying the in-universe logic that came before. That’s why I personally can’t get jiggy with it. It’s like Hans line in TFA, which ironically sums up the whole Sequel Trilogy for me thus far: ‘That’s not how the force works’.

Let me be clear though, if you like it I’m not trying to take anything away, I’m glad you did enjoy it, I’m just trying to create conversation.

The problem I have, as do I feel many on here, isn't with Rey's lineage or who she descended from. I'm fine with her being a nobody. Would it have been cool if she was a Skywalker or Kenobi? Sure! But that's not what takes me out of the character. Her being a nobody is a good logical way to move on from the Skywalker line. The problem is what she can do.... She's the wunderkind. Perfect in everyway (the MarySue). Expert at everything.

Anakin was the chosen one, created from the force itself (midichlorians crap), yet he needed years and years (10 years between Ep1 & Ep2) of TRAINING from multiple Jedi masters, each excelling in different aspects of the force. He learned to drive a pod racer as a kid on his own. That's it. It was only his reflexes and intuition that were guided/influenced by the force that made him an exceptional pod racer for a human. The force didn't impart knowledge into him. And for those to argue, "but he just jumped in the starfighter, flew it, and blew up a federation ship!!" He had no idea what he was doing... He was pushing buttons and it was on autopilot taking him to the fight. Even said it in the movie. Yes it was dumb, but somewhat explained onscreen.

Rey just jump into the Falcon and is apparently as good or better than Han/Chewbacca... Resists Kylo's mind force probe and even turns it against him. Then immediately teaches herself how to mind control a FO Trooper to let her go. Picks up a lightsaber for the 1st time after using the force to bring it to her overpowering Kylo's own force pull, and then wields it better than Kylo (injured or not). I guess we're to take Snoke's "There has been an awakening line" to justify all this. If there was a prophecy about a "chosen one" who would bring balance to the force, then where's the prophecy of the "awakening" of an all powerful Jedi who is master of all with no training?

The problem is Rey should have been with Luke and actually been taught for a few months at least. But, whatever..... It's just not good storytelling. There's no investment in any of these new characters to care. The closest is Kylo, and meh...

Haha i see you beat me to it

 

[klwn]

Kennedy's Star Wars reversed George Lucas concept of the Force.

The light side is supposed to be the hard path. The dark side is easier, Yoda tells that to Luke in ESB.

But in these movies, everything is easy for Rey, and she uses anger many times without ever coming close to falling to the dark side. She even goes straight for it on that rock with Luke, with no consequence. Everything comes to her naturally. The Force pull in TFA, she learned about the Force just a few hours before that. Luke's Force pull in ESB, he had been training for 2-4 years since he first met Obi-Wan. Luke's first on-screen mind trick? ROTJ. Rey's? TFA, again a few hours after learning about the Force. And of course the immediate lightsaber skills, which are the opposite of her staff skills since you can't have the blade enter in contact with your body at all.

On the other hand, Kylo is constantly struggling, he actually has to work at it non-stop to become darker or convince himself that he is.

 

[Darth Madden]

See, I like the idea of Rey being a nobody too, it’s refreshing, but then it would require the script to work around that. However at this point she is the most gifted force user of all time, even more so than Anakin ‘chosen one’ Skywalker. It’s been shown one can be force sensitive but it requires training to attune into and accomplish the feats that come with that territory, outside of heightened instincts and some luck before that.

The mind trick is hard to master and a more advanced power, but Rey did it on day 1 just a few hours after touching the saber. And two days later she’s force lifting large boulders. She’s a lightsaber master already. Further her matching and exceeding Kylo twice within a week makes it so there is no tension for the showdown that must happen. And he’s been training since childhood under 2 very strong force users. Now if she was related (and they might retrofit this anyway as Rian said) it would solve those problems.

So it’s not about the idea being bad, but the logic that follows not holding up and destroying the in-universe logic that came before. That’s why I personally can’t get jiggy with it. It’s like Hans line in TFA, which ironically sums up the whole Sequel Trilogy for me thus far: ‘That’s not how the force works’.

Let me be clear though, if you like it I’m not trying to take anything away, I’m glad you did enjoy it, I’m just trying to create conversation.

Her crazy rise in power does seem a bit off and while it didn't detract me from liking the film it is in the back of my head that its a little weird. I can't argue any of the points you made about her I guess I am trying to enjoy the ride more than worry about every weird bump... and maybe in IX we will get an explanation of what is going on. Maybe she related to Qui-Gon. He was the first to learn how to be a force ghost so maybe after hearing about Anakin's birth he used a little force impregnation.

 

[loki2371]

Light rises to match the dark.

Luke turned himself off from the force therefore; the light had no equal to the dark ..... enter Rey.

Luke mentioned he only seen such power once before in Kylo. I took Rey’s assenting in the force so quickly was to match Kylo. I took what they said in the film. Whether folks like it or not is a different matter however; it’s how I took it

That's fine, but again wasn't Anakin the same?? He was created by the force and still needed years of training. Rey had a normal mommy and daddy and no teaching. In no way is it believable that she is more in tuned with the force than the life form (Anakin) actually created by the force.

And Luke's statement has no weight to me. He wasn't around during the Jedi order. The only force sensitive people he's come across are the ones he was training. Which could've been what 2, 5, 10 20 - 30 tops?? We have no idea, because apparently to Rian Johnson it's not important to the story... Now if Yoda said that same sentence as a force ghost to Luke after having lived over 900 years and having have trained thousands of Jedi, including Vader (Anakin) yeah then it would hold some weight. That being Luke's line, not in the slightest.

 

[Underworld54]

Jumanji with a 28% drop this weekend
TLJ with a 55% drop this weekend

 

[Darkseed]

That's fine, but again wasn't Anakin the same?? He was created by the force and still needed years of training. Rey had a normal mommy and daddy and no teaching. In no way is it believable that she is more in tuned with the force than the life form (Anakin) actually created by the force.

And Luke's statement has no weight to me. He wasn't around during the Jedi order. The only force sensitive people he's come across are the ones he was training. Which could've been what 2, 5, 10 20 - 30 tops?? We have no idea, because apparentlu to Rian Johnson it's not important to the story... Now if Yoda said that same sentence as a force ghost to Luke after having lived over 900 years and having have trained thousands of Jedi, yeah then it would hold some weight. That being Luke's line, not in the slightest.

My point being folks saying Rey’s power is not explained but it is mentioned....whether people like or accept it is a different matter. The training meh...

I’m on the side a lot of Luke’s training is suspect and “assumed” never truly explained and I’ve accepted it for 40 yrs. while the movie has enough other issues that isn’t one of my biggest complaints

 

[Popnfresh98]

Kennedy's Star Wars reversed George Lucas concept of the Force.

The light side is supposed to be the hard path. The dark side is easier, Yoda tells that to Luke in ESB.

But in these movies, everything is easy for Rey, and she uses anger many times without ever coming close to falling to the dark side. She even goes straight for it on that rock with Luke, with no consequence. Everything comes to her naturally. The Force pull in TFA, she learned about the Force just a few hours before that. Luke's Force pull in ESB, he had been training for 2-4 years since he first met Obi-Wan. Luke's first on-screen mind trick? ROTJ. Rey's? TFA, again a few hours after learning about the Force. And of course the immediate lightsaber skills, which are the opposite of her staff skills since you can't have the blade enter in contact with your body at all.

On the other hand, Kylo is constantly struggling, he actually has to work at it non-stop to become darker or convince himself that he is.

Dang.. you’re right! That was one thing that didn’t even occur to me before... they completely inverted it in every way and Rey uses anger without consequence.. Kylo is the one struggling..

Again..: ‘That’s not how the force works.’

Maybe she related to Qui-Gon. He was the first to learn how to be a force ghost so maybe after hearing about Anakin's birth he used a little force impregnation.

I could definitely get with that!

 

[ZaCHw117]

vault boi = SNIKT?

 

[xipotec]

So the Mary Sue thing is cause people don’t like she’s naturally powerful , even more powerful than Vader was after years of training....

I see that.

BUT , what if she is something new? Granted that can only work if they explain it. Which is the main complaint for many fans I think....very little in explanations...

I can respect that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[klwn]

So the Mary Sue thing is cause people don’t like she’s naturally powerful , even more powerful than Vader was after years of training....

I see that.

BUT , what if she is something new? Granted that can only work if they explain it. Which is the main complaint for many fans I think....very little in explanations...

I can respect that.

Yes. You get it.

 

[loki2371]

My point being folks saying Rey’s power is not explained but it is mentioned....whether people like or accept it is a different matter. The training meh...

I’m on the side a lot of Luke’s training is suspect and “assumed” never truly explained and I’ve accepted it for 40 yrs. while the movie has enough other issues that isn’t one of my biggest complaints

Granted, but again years/many months passed between Ep IV - VI. So it's easy to accept Luke's progression in the force if not seen on screen. Once someone has the basics or fundamentals taught to them, they can continue to train themselves and grow t heir abilities on their own. They don't have to have lessons from a teacher every day.

We have mere hours/days passing from the beginning of TFA and Rey's introduction till the end of TLJ. Rey's progression makes no sense. This is just bad storytelling. The smarter thing wouldv'e been to have months/years pass between TFA & TLJ. I'd rather have never seen Luke's reaction to Rey handing him the lightsaber than the joke of what we got onscreen.

TLJ seems like Rian Johnson tried to make part 2 & 3 in one movie. That's why it feels like both ESB and ROTJ all in one. And leaves nothing for Ep9. He new he was one and done and the next guy has to deal with it. So he put in everything HE wanted to onscreen, regardless of the consequences of how it effects what came before and what is to come afterwards.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I'm back!

vault boi = SNIKT?

Oh sheet!!

 

[JAWS]

Finn and Rose brought DJ who tipped the FO off to the fleeing transports. The FO gunning down the transports caused Holdo to turn around and nuke the entire fleet. Then Finn killed Phasma. Since Hux knew that some transports escaped that led to the final showdown on Crait. Not sure how you could ever think that Finn and Rose's story didn't go anywhere. Sure their specific plan failed but their actions led to all the major moments at the end of the film.

All of the Finn and Poe stuff was worthless if the FO used a little piece of technology called "Looking with your Eyes" Even ifthe FO they was too far away to see the escape pod with their eyes, this film expects me to believe that they cant tell the whole rebel fleet is evacuating the ship... What about "reading the life forms"

Just a dumb plot convenience.. That is all DJ was good for.. Nothing more.. Nothing less. HE was there to give reason to the awful subplot and since the entire subplot sucked and forced me to watch the worst sequence in the series along with the 2nd worst character in the series it ends up feeling like a complete waste of time. Especially when you look at the fact the FO should have been able to tell they were evacuating.. Still could have had Haldo turn the ship around and complete her suicide run. Shave off 30 min of boring filler that way.

You point to Phasma.. Thought her purpose was fulfilled in the first film.. Finn got his "revenge" then... But hey Second revenge is always sweeter. But it did nothing to add to his character that should not have already been there.

Well it was part of him becoming a true "rebel scum" Yeah great.. And when it might really mean something and he will put his own needs behind that of the rebellion... Selfish Poe sacrifices the rebellion for her own schoolgirl crush..

Yeah Stuff happened.. Stupid, pointless, worthless stuff.

The film was filled with it.

But yeah stuff happened.

 

[loki2371]

So the Mary Sue thing is cause people don’t like she’s naturally powerful , even more powerful than Vader was after years of training....

I see that.

BUT , what if she is something new? Granted that can only work if they explain it. Which is the main complaint for many fans I think....very little in explanations...

I can respect that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly.... Just so many missed opportunities for good compelling story telling and narratives to carry SW into the future and beyond with these new characters. Johnson didn't give us any of that..

 

[klwn]

TLJ seems like Rian Johnson tried to make part 2 & 3 in one movie. That's why it feels like both ESB and ROTJ all in one. And leaves nothing for Ep9. He new he was one and done and the next guy has to deal with it. So he put in everything HE wanted to onscreen, regardless of the consequences of how it effects what came before and what is to come afterwards.