Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[loki2371]

See everyone, we can have fun without name calling or implying some of us are smarter than others......

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

yeah cause you would never hand such a deadly weapon to a blind 5 year old child would you?

I wouldn't trust this one...

...you know he's just there because his parent are rich.

 

[Popnfresh98]

yeah cause you would never hand such a deadly weapon to a blind 5 year old child would you?

oh wait they are being trained...that makes all the difference right....forgot...

Using idiocy against idiocy does not make a winning argument.

Bu..bu...bu....but that’s 90% of the posts. ��

Because if my 6yr old does sword training I’m going to start her off with a full on katana instead of a wooden stick or sparring sword, right?

Thank you, I didn’t think it needed to be spelled out, but apparently it does:

... But logic, and being a parent, would tell me those are training lightsabers. If a mistake is made, they get a really bad shock, not lose a limb.

Unless of course Yoda is secretly a sadist?? I'm sure he may have had a bit of a Napolean complex as well....

https://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Training_lightsaber

You are welcome.

Next.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Apparently they only take white kids for Jedi training.... except that wealthy alien.

 

[a-dev]

See everyone, we can have fun without name calling or implying some of us are smarter than others......

Actually there was implications flying left and right, you just couldn't see them because you're...errmmm, I mean..because the dark side shrouded everything.

 

[loki2371]

Apparently they only take white kids for Jedi training.... except that wealthy alien.

The one in the front row far left was a girl I believe....

 

[Popnfresh98]

Some people will either never change their opinion or internally rationalize as to why they are right and never admit they are wrong. I know people who refuse to change even when something is literally black or white and being shown irrefutable proof with real world facts... They still cannot process logic or rationalize thought to change their opinion and or admit their mistake.

As far as Luke vs Rey, everything in the OT is implied through either good dialogue and storytelling, or through pacing and knowing the events are spread out. We KNOW Luke is a good pilot through many lines of dialogue and scenes mentioned here in previous posts. Rey recognized a ship and says she's flown a few times. A simple scene with Rey and Unkar Plutt while on Jakku with a few lines of dialogue about her piloting skills is all that's needed for the audience to KNOW shes a skilled pilot. We don't get that, we must simply "believe". Same goes for Luke on Dagobah and his training. We KNOW it takes place over time, again because of pacing and dialogue. We don't have a countdown over our heads as to knowing the events unfold in mere hours like TLJ. Same with Luke's change from the end of ESB to ROTJ. No one changes their confidence level over night, especially after being defeated in the way Luke was by Vader in ESB. He had to build confidence through his training over time, as we know months have gone by. And again through dialogue when Vader sees Luke's lightaber and comments with dialogue how he's grown. Rey has NONE of this. She is simply "Awoken".

And finally comparing Rey's skills with a staff to a lightsaber is a joke. There is NO room for error when practicing with and using a lightsaber. One small error and you lose a limb, a body part, or simply just die. A mistake with Rey's blunt staff and she has a bruise. How anyone can make such a simple comparison is completely beyond reasoning with.

Also I just happened to be going through the Jedi archives, and this very good post talking about the same thing from ages ago stood out to me as we are on this topic. The logic is top tier stuff. It’s true... all of it.

 

[Wor-Gar]

The one in the front row far left was a girl I believe....

So does Hayden. I said kids.

 

[loki2371]

Also I just happened to be going through the Jedi archives, and this very good post talking about the same thing from ages ago stood out to me as we are on this topic.

 

[Wor-Gar]

popnfresh makes me think of Pop Tarts and now I'm hungry.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

The one in the front row far left was a girl I believe....

Rey's mom?

 

[loki2371]

Rey's mom?

If only Rian Johnson had that much of an imagination......

 

[Wor-Gar]

Rey's mom?

But Rey's mom is a nobody.

 

[Darth Madden]

Ok, this thread is giving me a headache. Time to go away for a while. [emoji3]

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[klwn]

As previously theorized, Rian Johnson hints at the Yoda scene being there to foreshadow how powerful Force ghost Luke will be:

 

[xipotec]

I wouldn't trust this one...

...you know he's just there because his parent are rich.

yup ...spit out my drink reading this.......

needed that laugh....thanks!

 

[Star Puffs]

All this is true in the really real world.....but correct me if I am wrong.....did not the precious LUKE SKYWALKER fly an X-wing without us seeing HIM fly anything that went off the ground? How about shoot the guns on the Falcon? Swing across a bridge using a rope? Do we have any justification in OT as to WHY Luke can even fire a blaster with accuracy and out gun trained Stormtroopers?

Luke explicitly mentions being able to fly the vehicle visible in his uncle's hangar, as well as shooting wombats while doing so. He's clearly interested in flying, hence, his desire to attend the Imperial Naval Academy. Han's reference to "dusting crops, boy" provides a realistic touchstone as to why a farmer might have an aircraft beyond a hobby interest.

Yes, the Rebels throw him in an X-Wing, which only seems plausible given the sheer desperation of the situation. It makes more sense given the loses they take in RO. He's not the best pilot and only survives because Biggs, Wedge, Han & Chewie, and, of course, Obi-Wan all help him. He gets shot down the next time we see him fly in ESB.

In escaping the Death Star, the Stormtroopers aren't supposed to kill them, because they need to escape in order to trace them back to the Rebel base. Leia explicitly addresses this feeling of their escape being markedly easy in the film, and Tarkin addresses Vader's plan to that effect. Luke clearly has a rifle with him when he goes to look for R2-D2, so he's a country boy who knows how to shoot at least that.

How did Indiana Jones survive an ocean voyage attached to a periscope on a submarine? I mention this because most of the films held in high regard here ,if put to the test of out viewership today, would not survive.....

Agreed, that's an absurd element. To this day, I remember my high school English teacher used that plot device as an example of bad story telling when we read The Old Man and the Sea. I have found Indiana Jones harder to like as an adult because of some suspension-of-disbelief breaking moments, despite great interest in history, archaeology, etc.

 

[DiFabio]

did not the precious LUKE SKYWALKER fly an X-wing without us seeing HIM fly anything that went off the ground?

"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home. They're not much bigger than two meters."

Being a pilot is really the only thing Luke was really good at. He dreams of going to the Academy with his friends, but his uncle keeps putting it off. He's been told since he was a child that his father was the best star pilot in that galaxy. When he's not farming for moisture in the barren desert, he's flying around in his T-16 skyhopper.

In 1976, there were plans to have a sequence with him flying the thing, but it got scrapped for budget and time constraints. You can see it parked outside his garage when he's cleaning the droids. He's also playing with a scaled down model of it that ILM would have used for the flying sequences had they filmed it.

How about shoot the guns on the Falcon?

He struggles with those guns, they both do. It takes him forever to destroy a TIE fighter and he actually breaks in a sweat doing it. His shocked expression and shooting one down and his "I GOT HIM!" to Han Solo says it all. Unlike what's shown in TLJ, it's actually hard to maneuver and shoot those things down.


Compare that to Rey in TLJ that is all smiles while she easily destroys a handful of TIE fighters with efficiency and ease, boasting how much she likes it and getting more kills than Luke, Han and Finn could ever dream of.

Swing across a bridge using a rope?

Swinging? More like grasping for straws.

Do we have any justification in OT as to WHY Luke can even fire a blaster with accuracy and out gun trained Stormtroopers?

Farmer.

Has to fend off the farm from Sandpeople with his Uncle from season to season.

Owns a rifle.

All established.






Hobbyists are often as competent as professionals, or moreso. If you want sharpshooters for your army, the best thing to do is recruit some farm kids who grew up with guns in their hands fending off their homes. Meanwhile, many real-world police and soldiers live up to the stormtrooper stereotype of being professional gun-carriers who can't hit the broad side of a barn. There's usually not much budget for target practice.

Luke flew through tight canyons and shot small animals with basic unguided weapons for fun.

I am not bashing OT here...

Yes you are. You and your ilk consistently do this to prop up the lame Disney movies.

Just pointing out once again that the eyes you are looking at this film, which is made for the new generation of kids, is skewed by the fact that we are all older cynical farts who want plausible, deeply explained, rational explanations for our space wizard and the magic they perform....

Possibly, but your argument with Luke is a poor one.


Compared to Rey, Luke is a loser, but also a well written character that struggles.

His Uncle holds him back from going into the imperial academy, his friends mock him and call him "wormy". The droids have no respect for him. He loses R2. He gets knocked out and beaten by the Sandpeople, who proceed to steal his stuff. He's saved by Obi-Wan. His aunt and uncle are killed. He gets threatened and shoved by Cantina patrons, needing Obi-Wan's help. He's constantly mocked and ridiculed by Han and Leia. He almost gets crushed to death in the trash compactor. He struggles to take down Stormtroopers and TIE fighters. He loses his best friend Biggs as well as his wingmen. He almost gets shot down by Vader and Co. until Han and Chewbacca help at the last minute. And this is just film one.

In film two, within a minute of his first appearance he's attacked and disfigured by a snow creature. He almost dies out in the cold until Han saves him again. He gets his co-pilot in the landspeeder killed. He doesn't recognize a Jedi Master in front of his face. He fails his training. He finds his greatest demon is himself. He's reckless and arrogant. He fails to save his friends (in fact, they end up saving him). Vader beats and batters him to a bloody and bruised pulp. He loses his hand and lightsaber after a traumatic defeat and finds out that his arch nemesis may really be his father. The only victory he achieves is by jumping into the abyss.


Now what obstacles does Rey face? In the span of a week she goes from a junk trader to a battle ready Jedi. She bests every enemy she faces. She owns Chewbacca and the Millennium Falcon. She's a better fighter than Finn, a better pilot than Poe. She doesn't need a family, she doesn't need to train with a Jedi Master. The only time she fails is when she is trying to mind trick an opponent, but even then, she gets it on a second try.

As stated multiple times on this forum, other than growing up on a desert planet, they have nothing in common. What took Luke three films (or 4 years in the timeline of the OT story) of character development. Rey has done in one film in a matter of days. It's ridiculous. The explanation is that the force just "awoke" inside her.

While we are at it......How did Indiana Jones survive an ocean voyage attached to a periscope on a submarine? I mention this because most of the films held in high regard here ,if put to the test of out viewership today, would not survive.....

Raiders of the Lost Arc is a national treasure. Even having it in the same discussion as TLJ should be a crime.

all this should be prefaced with "in my opinion" of course

A strawman argument isn't an opinion. I've already refuted all your arguments. Give me something else.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Raiders of the Lost Arc is a national treasure. Even having it in the same discussion as TLJ should be a crime.

 

[Popnfresh98]

popnfresh makes me think of Pop Tarts and now I'm hungry.

Well I did name it after the Poppin’ Fresh Pillsbourghy dough boy (hoo hoo!), but I spose that works too. As long as you’re hungry!

"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home. They're not much bigger than two meters."

Being a pilot is really the only thing Luke was really good at. He dreams of going to the Academy with his friends, but his uncle keeps putting it off. He's been told since he was a child that his father was the best star pilot in that galaxy. When he's not farming for moisture in the barren desert, he's flying around in his T-16 skyhopper.

In 1976, there were plans to have a sequence with him flying the thing, but it got scrapped for budget and time constraints. You can see it parked outside his garage when he's cleaning the droids. He's also playing with a scaled down model of it that ILM would have used for the flying sequences had they filmed it.




He struggles with those guns, they both do. It takes him forever to destroy a TIE fighter and he actually breaks in a sweat doing it. His shocked expression and shooting one down and his "I GOT HIM!" to Han Solo says it all. Unlike what's shown in TLJ, it's actually hard to maneuver and shoot those things down.


Compare that to Rey in TLJ that is all smiles while she easily destroys a handful of TIE fighters with efficiency and ease, boasting how much she likes it and getting more kills than Luke, Han and Finn could ever dream of.




Swinging? More like grasping for straws.



Farmer.

Has to fend off the farm from Sandpeople with his Uncle from season to season.

Owns a rifle.

All established.


View attachment 386074

View attachment 386075

Hobbyists are often as competent as professionals, or moreso. If you want sharpshooters for your army, the best thing to do is recruit some farm kids who grew up with guns in their hands fending off their homes. Meanwhile, many real-world police and soldiers live up to the stormtrooper stereotype of being professional gun-carriers who can't hit the broad side of a barn. There's usually not much budget for target practice.

Luke flew through tight canyons and shot small animals with basic unguided weapons for fun.




Yes you are. You and your ilk consistently do this to prop up the lame Disney movies.




Possibly, but your argument with Luke is a poor one.


Compared to Rey, Luke is a loser, but also a well written character that struggles.

His Uncle holds him back from going into the imperial academy, his friends mock him and call him "wormy". The droids have no respect for him. He loses R2. He gets knocked out and beaten by the Sandpeople, who proceed to steal his stuff. He's saved by Obi-Wan. His aunt and uncle are killed. He gets threatened and shoved by Cantina patrons, needing Obi-Wan's help. He's constantly mocked and ridiculed by Han and Leia. He almost gets crushed to death in the trash compactor. He struggles to take down Stormtroopers and TIE fighters. He loses his best friend Biggs as well as his wingmen. He almost gets shot down by Vader and Co. until Han and Chewbacca help at the last minute. And this is just film one.

In film two, within a minute of his first appearance he's attacked and disfigured by a snow creature. He almost dies out in the cold until Han saves him again. He gets his co-pilot in the landspeeder killed. He doesn't recognize a Jedi Master in front of his face. He fails his training. He finds his greatest demon is himself. He's reckless and arrogant. He fails to save his friends (in fact, they end up saving him). Vader beats and batters him to a bloody and bruised pulp. He loses his hand and lightsaber after a traumatic defeat and finds out that his arch nemesis may really be his father. The only victory he achieves is by jumping into the abyss.


Now what obstacles does Rey face? In the span of a week she goes from a junk trader to a battle ready Jedi. She bests every enemy she faces. She owns Chewbacca and the Millennium Falcon. She's a better fighter than Finn, a better pilot than Poe. She doesn't need a family, she doesn't need to train with a Jedi Master. The only time she fails is when she is trying to mind trick an opponent, but even then, she gets it on a second try.

As stated multiple times on this forum, other than growing up on a desert planet, they have nothing in common. What took Luke three films (or 4 years in the timeline of the OT story) of character development. Rey has done in one film in a matter of days. It's ridiculous. The explanation is that the force just "awoke" inside her.






Raiders of the Lost Arc is a national treasure. Even having it in the same discussion as TLJ should be a crime.




A strawman argument isn't an opinion. I've already refuted all your arguments. Give me something else.

Damn, epic post.. That’s how you do it!

A step by step dismantling..