Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[jye4ever]

But remember no matter how much DiFabio so eloquently pontificates against the evils of Mary Sue TLJ is still the # 1 movie of 2017 and that just drives you Rey haters mad knowing that can’t ever be erased from the history books and to make matters even worst for you 20 forum members IX will end up in the same spot lol.

You might win a battle here and there but Disney will win the war.

 

[Khev]

Have to ask this.. Just watched a video about what this film got right.. One of the things mentioned is that it showed that "anybody" could be the hero..

Was that not already stressed in the OT??

I mean Han, Chewie, R2, Lando, Ewoks, 3PO, Obi Wan, Leia, Akbar, Lobot lol) The films are filled with hero's.. So why do people think this film does something special.. Because they got an awkward Asian in a main role?

Oh but you don't have to have special parents to be strong with the force.

But was that not shown in the PT??

There were tons of people strong with the force... Not just the Skywalkers.. So its no surprise that a slave with a broom might have the force or a girl abandoned by her parents.. I don't get it... I don't get the message.

I have heard people say that this was the message here on the board.. Used for both an argument for and against the film.. But again how if this different from the other films?? I mean Luke was the only one who was special in the OT (Leia latter).. But again the PT showed that the force was something you were born with..This film did nothing to negate that..

Some have used this argument for why Rey is strong with the force.. You can come from nothing and still be there hero... Which the OT still showed.. But its not the coming from nothing detractors have an issue with.. Its being so good at it that is the problem... But again... I don't get what the New films were trying to prove.. If anything.

Any answers out there either way??? I think that the "anyone can be a hero" message is overblown no matter which side you are looking at it.

I don't think that the Sequel Trilogy are the first SW movies to say that "anyone can be a hero" but I think they brought the Saga *back* to that mindset. I never felt watching SW and ESB that Luke was special and could learn the ways of the Force because of his bloodline. ROTJ first introduced that notion and the PT *really* ran with it. But IMO TFA/TLJ have brought things back to SW/ESB where anyone who was "open" to the Force could be trained regardless of where they came from/how they were made.

 

[Khev]

But remember no matter how much you eloquently pontificate against the evils of Mary Sue TLJ is still the # 1 movie of 2017 and that just drives you Rey haters mad knowing that can’t ever be erased from the history books and to make matters even worst for you 20 forum members IX will end up in the same spot lol.

I don't even care that she's a Mary Sue because I just find her so likable. To me she's basically just a female MCU Cap.

 

[JAWS]

Luke explicitly mentions being able to fly the vehicle visible in his uncle's hangar, as well as shooting wombats while doing so. He's clearly interested in flying, hence, his desire to attend the Imperial Naval Academy. Han's reference to "dusting crops, boy" provides a realistic touchstone as to why a farmer might have an aircraft beyond a hobby interest.

Yes, the Rebels throw him in an X-Wing, which only seems plausible given the sheer desperation of the situation. It makes more sense given the loses they take in RO. He's not the best pilot and only survives because Biggs, Wedge, Han & Chewie, and, of course, Obi-Wan all help him. He gets shot down the next time we see him fly in ESB.

All this talk of Luke knowing how to fly and X wing..

We are all aware that Luke was not a very good piolet in any of the Rebel ships (or other vehicles)

ANH
1. Gets shot in Death Star Battle - Needs R2 to do repairs
2. Almost gets killed by Tie Fighter - Needs Wedge to save him
3. Gets R2 shot in the Trenches

ESB
1. Gets shot by AT-AT 1st time - Gets Dak killed
2. Gets shot by AT-AT 2nd time - Crashes the Snow Speeder
3. Crashes his X-Wing on Dagobah

ROTJ
1. Gets speeder bike tangled with another Bike - Crashes Bike


"Hey Not such a Bad Piolet myself" my ***

 

[a-dev]

I'm sure he's a fine peace-time pilot in normal atmospheric or space conditions.

 

[Kain's Ancient Blade]

But remember no matter how much DiFabio so eloquently pontificates against the evils of Mary Sue TLJ is still the # 1 movie of 2017 and that just drives you Rey haters mad knowing that can’t ever be erased from the history books and to make matters even worst for you 20 forum members IX will end up in the same spot lol.

You might win a battle here and there but Disney will win the war.

Plenty of crap movies were number one movies throughout the years. FYI I don't hate Rey. I agree she is a Mary Sue and poorly written. But so was everyone else in The Last Jedi.

 

[Khev]

When the above becomes "Star Wars", its time for me to leave. The comic kids have taken over Star Wars. And look what they did with those.

I'm pretty sure that that's what most naysayers wanted Luke to do against the entire FO army.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

To me she's basically just a female MCU C....

 

[DiFabio]

But remember no matter how much DiFabio so eloquently pontificates against the evils of Mary Sue TLJ is still the # 1 movie of 2017 and that just drives you Rey haters mad knowing that can’t ever be erased from the history books and to make matters even worst for you 20 forum members IX will end up in the same spot lol.

You might win a battle here and there but Disney will win the war.

Oh it's #1 alright.

 

[klwn]

I'm pretty sure that that's what most naysayers wanted Luke to do against the entire FO army.

Nah come on. You can have Luke do incredibly impressive stuff without even coming close to Star Destroyer crash territory.
If that's 1000 on the scale of Force feats, have Luke at around 450 and everyone would have been happy (I know you love the Force projection thing).

 

[Otomofan]

But remember no matter how much DiFabio so eloquently pontificates against the evils of Mary Sue TLJ is still the # 1 movie of 2017 and that just drives you Rey haters mad knowing that can’t ever be erased from the history books and to make matters even worst for you 20 forum members IX will end up in the same spot lol.

You might win a battle here and there but Disney will win the war.

Time will tell.

I know the sentiment of the masses is that anyone that doesn't like Disney Wars is "on the wrong side of history." But these movies are disposable garbage. They'll be as forgotten as Age of Ultron or Transformers 3.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I'm pretty sure that that's what most naysayers wanted Luke to do against the entire FO army.

Not this one.

Too much fantasy can be more dangerous than too little.

 

[DiFabio]

Force pulling a Star Destroyer out of the atmosphere is ridiculous . . .

But it's more plausible and less ridiculous than willing a holographic projection of yourself across the galaxy and then hnnnngging because of it.

I don't know who was more stupid, Kylo for not recognizing that Luke was wielding the blue Skywalker lightsaber (the one he was hunting for and the one that was destroyed a few minutes before Luke showed up when him and Rey were playing tug of war) or Luke for not projecting the green one that Kylo would obviously remember (you know, since he was going to kill him with it).

Dumb movie.

 

[JAWS]

I think I keep underestimating just how much you dislike this film, lol. The depths of your dislike probably confuses me as much as my love for it does you.

Ya.. I am not a fan. I like SW and I like parts so I don't hate it. But like I have said, the plot of this film is more fitting for a single episode tv show and not an epic Star Wars film.. More frustrated by the fact that this film really moves nothing along other then Kylo being in charge.

And yes your love confuses the hell out of me

The transports were discussed a day or two ago. Me, Neal, and jye concluded that the opening of the film established Hux as a bit of a dolt when it came to properly deploying fighters (as evidenced by the Dreadnaught captain who furiously exclaimed that Hux should have launched fighters "five minutes ago!") At first I thought it was a huge plot hole that the FO didn't have TIE Fighters flying parallel to the Resistance ships just out of range and monitoring their comings and goings, escape pods, etc., until Neal mentioned Hux. Now that can be just one more thing that you think is stupid about the movie but to me he's just another Admiral Ozzel who makes a huge blunder that allows the film to keep things interesting. So I'm fine with it just as I'm fine with DJ's role in the narrative.

I get Snoke wanting a Cure in charge but such a dumb cure?

I would think that they would be able to monitor what is going on with the ship since they can scan ships for life forms etc.. Also there is the whole thing with the FO should be able to just see it from their ship.

If not then deploying Tie Fighters should have been the answer. Hux being dumb is one thing but all of this is really dumb.. Its one thing to come out of light speed to quickly and another to repeatedly to the wrong thing.

But If you want to give all the events happening because Hux is as dumb as the movies script is... Well I am good with that

As far as Phasma is concerned I think they simply brought her back just for the fun of it and to provide a more satisfying exit for her character. Kind of like Karl at the end of Die Hard. Finn doesn't need to get "revenge again." He simply needed a better showdown with her than TFA provided so I enjoyed what we got in TLJ.

1st - Can we agree that Karl's return was the worst part of Die Hard.. Only blemish on a perfect film.. Right down to using James Horner music for the event.. Makes me think it was a last minute add on.

My point of Phasma demise is that it was unneeded... And thus not something that had to happen or moved the story along.. I don't hate the scene it just was part of my "Nothing really happens" issues with that sub plot.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I don't know who was more stupid...

*oooo -- raises hand quickly*

I know, I know...

The audience? For seeing this movie multiple times and never noticing things like that?

 

[Khev]

It's true. Since her opening scenes in TFA by herself in the Jakku desert I've felt that Daisy did a great job conveying a hero that is fun to root for. And the films have never said that she had no adult supervision her entire childhood (before and after her arrival on Jakku) so I have no problem assuming that she picked up all of her fighting and climbing skills on Jakku by plausible means. It's obviously a harsh world but we also know from her "Force flashback" that Unkar Plutt, the guy pretty much in charge of the whole outpost, was either her custodian or protector for an unspecified time until she started living in the AT-AT alone. Since the film doesn't spell out her entire history I see no need to assume that her past played out in the stupidest/most far-fetched manner possible.

So survival of the fittest, she rises to the challenges of scavenger life (with whatever guidance/training that that would have entailed) which then led to her fighting and climbing skills that overlapped with being a Jedi apprentice. We knew that Luke liked flying and had some experience doing so in ANH but the film didn't give us two seconds of exposition as to just how any of that played out (Owen taught him? Someone else?) and I have no problem doing the same with Rey.

 

[Wor-Gar]

1st - Can we agree that Karl's return was the worst part of Die Hard.. Only blemish on a perfect film.. Right down to using James Horner music for the event.. Makes me think it was a last minute add on.

Yes. And it was a last minute tag. Test audiences felt McClane needed to meet Powell. The odd use of Horner's music that sticks out like a sore thumb with that Star Trek crescendo after Powell shoots Karl... sort of cringe worthy. Saved by "He's with me". But yeah, movie basically ended with Han's fall and Holly and John's hug.

 

[JAWS]

I don't think that the Sequel Trilogy are the first SW movies to say that "anyone can be a hero" but I think they brought the Saga *back* to that mindset. I never felt watching SW and ESB that Luke was special and could learn the ways of the Force because of his bloodline. ROTJ first introduced that notion and the PT *really* ran with it. But IMO TFA/TLJ have brought things back to SW/ESB where anyone who was "open" to the Force could be trained regardless of where they came from/how they were made.

Guess I never thought that it took that route... I figure force sensitive is force sensitive.. And you know what.. Not everyone can be force sensitive... Can they?? IF not then not everyone can be special.. Damn it this film is now full of lies

I'm sure he's a fine peace-time pilot in normal atmospheric or space conditions.

I'm pretty sure that that's what most naysayers wanted Luke to do against the entire FO army.

... Probably.. But that don't make them right either

 

[Adolfo]

Phasma not needed,holdo not needed,rose not needed,Leia poppins not needed

 

[abake]

I don't think that the Sequel Trilogy are the first SW movies to say that "anyone can be a hero" but I think they brought the Saga *back* to that mindset. I never felt watching SW and ESB that Luke was special and could learn the ways of the Force because of his bloodline. ROTJ first introduced that notion and the PT *really* ran with it. But IMO TFA/TLJ have brought things back to SW/ESB where anyone who was "open" to the Force could be trained regardless of where they came from/how they were made.

Nah, the PT only made a point of Anakin being specially powerful because of the prophecy. But Mace Windu was portrayed as the most powerful Jedi Master, wasn't he? And there were always tons of jedi running around everywhere.