Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[loki2371]

Is that Natalie Portman???

I remember reading somewhere she's like an admitted nympho in real life. Her husband is a lucky man...

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

keira knightley/Vanity Fair's Harry Met Sally spoof

You're welcome Crows

edit

and Loki

 

[Vault Boy]

 

[loki2371]

keira knightley/Vanity Fair's Harry Met Sally spoof

You're welcome Crows

Oooh.. I love me some Kiera Knightley.. Even better. They do look a lot a like. She was one of Queen Amidala's handmaidens that doubled as a decoy after all..

 

[Wor-Gar]

Is that Natalie Portman???

Apparently that's what George Lucas thought.

 

[Popnfresh98]

Is that Natalie Portman???

I remember reading somewhere she's like an admitted nympho in real life. Her husband is a lucky man...

Haha unfortunately it’s exactly the opposite:

"I'm sure you can have sex without feelings being involved... That might be alright for some, but it's not for me!"

She really needs to feel the connection and love, cannot do it for the spice. That’s lovemaking only bro. Sorry to burst the bubble.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Oooh.. I love me some Kiera Knightley.. Even better. They do look a lot a like. She was one of Queen Amidala's handmaidens that doubled as a decoy after all..

And Rey kind of looks like a Kiera Knightley that was left in the oven a bit too long. Coincidence?

 

[xipotec]

"I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home. They're not much bigger than two meters."

Being a pilot is really the only thing Luke was really good at. He dreams of going to the Academy with his friends, but his uncle keeps putting it off. He's been told since he was a child that his father was the best star pilot in that galaxy. When he's not farming for moisture in the barren desert, he's flying around in his T-16 skyhopper.

In 1976, there were plans to have a sequence with him flying the thing, but it got scrapped for budget and time constraints. You can see it parked outside his garage when he's cleaning the droids. He's also playing with a scaled down model of it that ILM would have used for the flying sequences had they filmed it.




He struggles with those guns, they both do. It takes him forever to destroy a TIE fighter and he actually breaks in a sweat doing it. His shocked expression and shooting one down and his "I GOT HIM!" to Han Solo says it all. Unlike what's shown in TLJ, it's actually hard to maneuver and shoot those things down.


Compare that to Rey in TLJ that is all smiles while she easily destroys a handful of TIE fighters with efficiency and ease, boasting how much she likes it and getting more kills than Luke, Han and Finn could ever dream of.




Swinging? More like grasping for straws.



Farmer.

Has to fend off the farm from Sandpeople with his Uncle from season to season.

Owns a rifle.

All established.


View attachment 386074

View attachment 386075

Hobbyists are often as competent as professionals, or moreso. If you want sharpshooters for your army, the best thing to do is recruit some farm kids who grew up with guns in their hands fending off their homes. Meanwhile, many real-world police and soldiers live up to the stormtrooper stereotype of being professional gun-carriers who can't hit the broad side of a barn. There's usually not much budget for target practice.

Luke flew through tight canyons and shot small animals with basic unguided weapons for fun.




Yes you are. You and your ilk consistently do this to prop up the lame Disney movies.




Possibly, but your argument with Luke is a poor one.


Compared to Rey, Luke is a loser, but also a well written character that struggles.

His Uncle holds him back from going into the imperial academy, his friends mock him and call him "wormy". The droids have no respect for him. He loses R2. He gets knocked out and beaten by the Sandpeople, who proceed to steal his stuff. He's saved by Obi-Wan. His aunt and uncle are killed. He gets threatened and shoved by Cantina patrons, needing Obi-Wan's help. He's constantly mocked and ridiculed by Han and Leia. He almost gets crushed to death in the trash compactor. He struggles to take down Stormtroopers and TIE fighters. He loses his best friend Biggs as well as his wingmen. He almost gets shot down by Vader and Co. until Han and Chewbacca help at the last minute. And this is just film one.

In film two, within a minute of his first appearance he's attacked and disfigured by a snow creature. He almost dies out in the cold until Han saves him again. He gets his co-pilot in the landspeeder killed. He doesn't recognize a Jedi Master in front of his face. He fails his training. He finds his greatest demon is himself. He's reckless and arrogant. He fails to save his friends (in fact, they end up saving him). Vader beats and batters him to a bloody and bruised pulp. He loses his hand and lightsaber after a traumatic defeat and finds out that his arch nemesis may really be his father. The only victory he achieves is by jumping into the abyss.


Now what obstacles does Rey face? In the span of a week she goes from a junk trader to a battle ready Jedi. She bests every enemy she faces. She owns Chewbacca and the Millennium Falcon. She's a better fighter than Finn, a better pilot than Poe. She doesn't need a family, she doesn't need to train with a Jedi Master. The only time she fails is when she is trying to mind trick an opponent, but even then, she gets it on a second try.

As stated multiple times on this forum, other than growing up on a desert planet, they have nothing in common. What took Luke three films (or 4 years in the timeline of the OT story) of character development. Rey has done in one film in a matter of days. It's ridiculous. The explanation is that the force just "awoke" inside her.






Raiders of the Lost Arc is a national treasure. Even having it in the same discussion as TLJ should be a crime.




A strawman argument isn't an opinion. I've already refuted all your arguments. Give me something else.

Fab's , all you are doing is proving my point here....

You just wrote a book defending ANH with detailed references from sources that have come out over decades of explanation and detail added....

Did you have any idea what the hell a T-16 and what it could actually do way back in 77 on first viewing? No.

Did you have any reference at all for Luke being able to shoot a damn thing with a gun? No (he doesn't even get off a shot until the Death Star).
You assumed he can...why? Hes a farm boy and carries one around...so therefore it makes sense he can shoot....

Do you have any reason to legitimately explain why a farmboy can learn enough of the Force to hit a target everyone else says is impossible, and that seasoned pilots miss? NO

Its all magic...it always has been...you just cannot tolerate it anymore.

The arguments for what Rey is doing are just as plausible and have just as little evidence as those you are making for Luke.

She grew up in a tough world and survived...so she MUST know how to fight. She carries a staff around with here so she must use it for defense.
She climbs through ships so she must be agile strong and know ships inside and out.....hence why she could repair the Falcon.
She fights a severely wounded and traumatized opponent in Kylo....and bests him as the Force Awakens in her.

Its the EXACT same types leaps being made .....its just your mind was not concerned with it in 77, and it IS now. You have again had DECADES to rationalize all the plot holes and far fetched nonsense that makes SW great for the OT....and we willing do so because we love the film and it is such a powerful moment from our childhood.

Well I did name it after the Poppin’ Fresh Pillsbourghy dough boy (hoo hoo!), but I spose that works too. As long as you’re hungry!



Damn, epic post.. That’s how you do it!

A step by step dismantling..

Does Difabio pay you? Or are you his secret account?

 

[Wor-Gar]

And Rey kind of looks like a Kiera Knightley that was left in the oven a bit too long. Coincidence?

Well, Daisy is just out of frame in the Keira gif...






And welcome.... to Fantasy Island!

 

[loki2371]

Haha unfortunately it’s exactly the opposite:



She really needs to feel the connection and love, cannot do it for the spice. That’s lovemaking only bro. Sorry to burst the bubble.

No... What I read was she loves sex. With her partner. Not that she runs around sleeping with whomever and whenever...

 

[Popnfresh98]

Fab's , all you are doing is proving my point here....

You just wrote a book defending ANH with detailed references from sources that have come out over decades of explanation and detail added....

Did you have any idea what the hell a T-16 and what it could actually do way back in 77 on first viewing? No.

Did you have any reference at all for Luke being able to shoot a damn thing with a gun? No (he doesn't even get off a shot until the Death Star).
You assumed he can...why? Hes a farm boy and carries one around...so therefore it makes sense he can shoot....

Do you have any reason to legitimately explain why a farmboy can learn enough of the Force to hit a target everyone else says is impossible, and that seasoned pilots miss? NO

Its all magic...it always has been...you just cannot tolerate it anymore.

The arguments for what Rey is doing are just as plausible and have just as little evidence as those you are making for Luke.

She grew up in a tough world and survived...so she MUST know how to fight. She carries a staff around with here so she must use it for defense.
She climbs through ships so she must be agile strong and know ships inside and out.....hence why she could repair the Falcon.
She fights a severely wounded and traumatized opponent in Kylo....and bests him as the Force Awakens in her.

Its the EXACT same types leaps being made .....its just your mind was not concerned with it in 77, and it IS now. You have again had DECADES to rationalize all the plot holes and far fetched nonsense that makes SW great for the OT....and we willing do so because we love the film and it is such a powerful moment from our childhood.

I’ll just point you back to this post again, as it references why everything is more believable in Luke’s case vs Rey’s:

Some people will either never change their opinion or internally rationalize as to why they are right and never admit they are wrong. I know people who refuse to change even when something is literally black or white and being shown irrefutable proof with real world facts... They still cannot process logic or rationalize thought to change their opinion and or admit their mistake.

As far as Luke vs Rey, everything in the OT is implied through either good dialogue and storytelling, or through pacing and knowing the events are spread out. We KNOW Luke is a good pilot through many lines of dialogue and scenes mentioned here in previous posts. Rey recognized a ship and says she's flown a few times. A simple scene with Rey and Unkar Plutt while on Jakku with a few lines of dialogue about her piloting skills is all that's needed for the audience to KNOW shes a skilled pilot. We don't get that, we must simply "believe". Same goes for Luke on Dagobah and his training. We KNOW it takes place over time, again because of pacing and dialogue. We don't have a countdown over our heads as to knowing the events unfold in mere hours like TLJ. Same with Luke's change from the end of ESB to ROTJ. No one changes their confidence level over night, especially after being defeated in the way Luke was by Vader in ESB. He had to build confidence through his training over time, as we know months have gone by. And again through dialogue when Vader sees Luke's lightaber and comments with dialogue how he's grown. Rey has NONE of this. She is simply "Awoken".

And finally comparing Rey's skills with a staff to a lightsaber is a joke. There is NO room for error when practicing with and using a lightsaber. One small error and you lose a limb, a body part, or simply just die. A mistake with Rey's blunt staff and she has a bruise. How anyone can make such a simple comparison is completely beyond reasoning with.

@loki

No... What I read was she loves sex. With her partner. Not that she runs around sleeping with whomever and whenever...

Ah I didn’t that mean she sleeps around either

Just that I couldn’t find that with any googling. Perhaps it was in some magazine.

 

[DiFabio]

Fab's , all you are doing is proving my point here....

You just wrote a book defending ANH with detailed references from sources that have come out over decades of explanation and detail added....

Did you have any idea what the hell a T-16 and what it could actually do way back in 77 on first viewing? No.

Did you have any reference at all for Luke being able to shoot a damn thing with a gun? No (he doesn't even get off a shot until the Death Star).
You assumed he can...why? Hes a farm boy and carries one around...so therefore it makes sense he can shoot....

Do you have any reason to legitimately explain why a farmboy can learn enough of the Force to hit a target everyone else says is impossible, and that seasoned pilots miss? NO

Its all magic...it always has been...you just cannot tolerate it anymore.

The arguments for what Rey is doing are just as plausible and have just as little evidence as those you are making for Luke.

She grew up in a tough world and survived...so she MUST know how to fight. She carries a staff around with here so she must use it for defense.
She climbs through ships so she must be agile strong and know ships inside and out.....hence why she could repair the Falcon.
She fights a severely wounded and traumatized opponent in Kylo....and bests him as the Force Awakens in her.

Its the EXACT same types leaps being made .....its just your mind was not concerned with it in 77, and it IS now. You have again had DECADES to rationalize all the plot holes and far fetched nonsense that makes SW great for the OT....and we willing do so because we love the film and it is such a powerful moment from our childhood.

You didn't refute anything I posted. I backed up every claim from evidence from the film/s along with pictures.

Instead of posting a nice book like I did, you made a cute little manuscript detailing nothing.

Rey is a bland and awful character. You haven't defended it, you can't.

Next.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

You didn't refute anything I posted. I backed up every claim from evidence from the film/s along with pictures.

 

[JAWS]

Have you ever met children who live without adult care? I have, in Latin America. The notion of Rey raising herself to be a well-adjusted, worldly, spotlessly clean, well-spoken, etc. sans parents in a dog-eat-dog environment is a fantasy more absurd than using our minds to move objects.

I'm not saying people do not rise out of those circumstances, but they do so with a support structure, even if a single caring adult who can transmit the requisite skills, which Jakku conspicuously lacks for anyone.

The onus is on the storyteller to make this seem believable on screen. They present absolutely nothing to suggest she knows how to pilot a vehicle that flies off the ground. She even tells Finn she has no idea how she manoeuvred the Falcon thusly to outfly trained pilots. You can't learn to fight without training partners, full stop. Rey doesn't even seem to have access to a reliable supply of food on screen, but she's in the pink of health. It's all just absurd.

She's a shallow, uninspiring wish-fulfillment character that is actually a major regression for women as action heros. She reminds me of male pulp heroes, who now seem boring and implausible.

 

[loki2371]

I’ll just point you back to this post again, as it references why everything is more believable in Luke’s case vs Rey’s:



@loki



Ah I didn’t that mean she sleeps around either

Just that I couldn’t find that with any googling. Perhaps it was in some magazine.

It was a very loooong time ago. I was surprised when I read it. There was a time when she was having trouble getting casting in movies after EpIII. Trying to break the mold of being typecast. Just look at all the little cute Disney channel girls that grow up into .... Same with singers like Taylor Swift. They can't be the cute girl forever, so they need to become the sexy girl...

 

[DiFabio]

These ST lovers bore me. The PT and Hobbit lovers were more of a challenge and much better game back in the day.

Isn't there anyone out there that is worthy of being called my adversary?

 

[Wor-Gar]

Why do you keep posting X's?

 

[DiFabio]

You dated Han Solo and General Zod?

 

[JAWS]

As previously theorized, Rian Johnson hints at the Yoda scene being there to foreshadow how powerful Force ghost Luke will be:

Stupid and awful IMO.. Hope it does not come to fruition.

 

[Khev]

All of the Finn and Poe stuff was worthless if the FO used a little piece of technology called "Looking with your Eyes" Even ifthe FO they was too far away to see the escape pod with their eyes, this film expects me to believe that they cant tell the whole rebel fleet is evacuating the ship... What about "reading the life forms"

Just a dumb plot convenience.. That is all DJ was good for.. Nothing more.. Nothing less. HE was there to give reason to the awful subplot and since the entire subplot sucked and forced me to watch the worst sequence in the series along with the 2nd worst character in the series it ends up feeling like a complete waste of time. Especially when you look at the fact the FO should have been able to tell they were evacuating.. Still could have had Haldo turn the ship around and complete her suicide run. Shave off 30 min of boring filler that way.

You point to Phasma.. Thought her purpose was fulfilled in the first film.. Finn got his "revenge" then... But hey Second revenge is always sweeter. But it did nothing to add to his character that should not have already been there.

Well it was part of him becoming a true "rebel scum" Yeah great.. And when it might really mean something and he will put his own needs behind that of the rebellion... Selfish Poe sacrifices the rebellion for her own schoolgirl crush..

Yeah Stuff happened.. Stupid, pointless, worthless stuff.

The film was filled with it.

But yeah stuff happened.

I think I keep underestimating just how much you dislike this film, lol. The depths of your dislike probably confuses me as much as my love for it does you.

The transports were discussed a day or two ago. Me, Neal, and jye concluded that the opening of the film established Hux as a bit of a dolt when it came to properly deploying fighters (as evidenced by the Dreadnaught captain who furiously exclaimed that Hux should have launched fighters "five minutes ago!") At first I thought it was a huge plot hole that the FO didn't have TIE Fighters flying parallel to the Resistance ships just out of range and monitoring their comings and goings, escape pods, etc., until Neal mentioned Hux. Now that can be just one more thing that you think is stupid about the movie but to me he's just another Admiral Ozzel who makes a huge blunder that allows the film to keep things interesting. So I'm fine with it just as I'm fine with DJ's role in the narrative.

As far as Phasma is concerned I think they simply brought her back just for the fun of it and to provide a more satisfying exit for her character. Kind of like Karl at the end of Die Hard. Finn doesn't need to get "revenge again." He simply needed a better showdown with her than TFA provided so I enjoyed what we got in TLJ.

I said similar things awhile ago... Khev never replied. Maybe he has me blocked??

I don't have you on Ignore but like I said to JAWS the very issues you questioned were covered just a few pages prior so I didn't feel the need to repeat them. I figure that at this point (several weeks after release) that a lot of you just want to say your peace or vent about the movie without having every post countered by someone like myself. I feel like I've addressed pretty much all the criticisms against this flick and don't need to keep having the same debates over and over. Now I just pretty much piggy back off the posts of those who share my views and am allowing for you to do the same.