Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[klwn]

And therein lies the fallacy of these preconceived ideals. Kylo Ren, the Knights of Ren, Snoke... they are not Sith. Even though Snoke was loosely using Sith teachings as a template for his rule, he likely considered himself beyond the Sith, due to his huge ego.

Abrams intentionally made them all ambiguous, to match the original trilogy. He wanted to capture some of the mystery that those films initially had.

George Lucas’ biggest failing was his constant desire to explain away and overanalyze all of his concepts. Sure, there is now a ton of lore about the Sith and the Jedi and the Universe is relatively better off for it. However, I also think you can become trapped by it. Especially if no one can step out of what’s become the established order, without some kind of volatile backlash.

That's fine. I mean of course Sith are the best embodiment we've had imo, but there can be other dark side users. The only issue for now is that they are leaving us with zero explanation as to where this new non-Sith approach came from. You are right though, maybe we shouldn't expect what Lucas used to do.

Clearly though, the path of learning to 'ultimate power' has to be similar no matter what they call themselves. And btw I feel like they should have established a name by now for what Snoke and Kylo were, it's really annoying to just call them dark side users or other synonyms

Snoke seems to be quite fond of the Sith which is weird, not only the way he mentions Vader but also his ring which has writings connected to the Four Sages of Dwartii, the statues that were in Palpatine's office.
I have no doubt there will be a book or some kind of answers one way or another, we'll see what they come up with to fill in the gaps.

 

[Sassafras]

Right because that's the only part that disappointed me or other people in TLJ

It's not about head canon, it's about the internal logic of the pre-established universe. A 29 year old emo boy who turned to the dark side a few years prior isn't going to surpass his master just like that. And again, it was shown in the movie anyway, he was inferior to Snoke. When Snoke attacked him with Force lightning, Kylo was about to protest. Why do you think he didn't try arguing after that? Because he couldn't do anything, he was powerless against him and he knew it. It's just logic, it's shown on screen.

Not to mention he almost died against the guards and was only fighting half of them. You think Snoke would have guards around him that he wouldn't be able to defeat all by himself in case of treason?.......

In TFA Snoke literally says he needs to complete Kylo's training. He sees he isn't ready, and reminds him in the throne room scene leading to the destruction of the helmet. Kylo got zero training in TLJ, he found a clever way to kill Snoke, that's it. So he is exactly where he was at in TFA. He is the same dark side user. He couldn't even best Rey when they Force pulled on the lightsaber, AGAIN. And meanwhile Rey is getting more powerful by the minute. If you can't see the issue, I don't know what to say. Good for you if you think Kylo is awesome, I guess.

Well, yeah. Snoke sitting up there sneering away - actually for me it was too much but anyway - reminded me of that line from the Devil's Advocate "Vanity...it's my favorite sin".

IMO Snoke - and even Luke in a way - and even Kylo - don't seem to get Kylo's strength. If Kylo is as strong as Rey - nobody wins when the light saber is destroyed - then in theory Kylo as well continues to grow in power. That's something Luke reacted to "what he would become". Raw power.

Kylo has been defined by complexity tho - e.g. he doesn't kill his mother. He's tormented. Which on the one hand Snoke dismisses as weakness but on the other hand makes Kylo a wild card - he's growing in power, but still finding his way. Then the time comes when Kylo makes the choice that he needs no teacher e.g. destroys Snoke.
Kylo HAD seemed to need affirmation, much like Anakin. From Luke, from Snoke, from Rey. Even Darth Vader had had a master.

Now Kylo is even more dangerous because he's not answering to anyone (unless Luke and other Force ghosts pop in an out. Including Anakin).

 

[DarthBakura]

Oh, and Snoke’s idea of “completing” his training was further torment and beratement. Then he bridged Kylo’s mind with that of Rey, in which they inevitably formed a bond.

Tricking her to come for Kylo served two purposes. Finding Luke and turning her over to Kylo Ren, so that he could finally “complete his training,” by killing her. Snoke could have ended her several times over, but he kept her alive until her death served a purpose.

 

[klwn]

If Kylo is as strong as Rey - nobody wins when the light saber is destroyed - then in theory Kylo as well continues to grow in power.

Rey wins. They face the exact same explosion at the exact same distance, yet Kylo is completely knocked out and she escapes. That's a win.

And although the fact that he is tormented and such a wild card does make him somewhat original from a character standpoint compared to Palpatine (less compared to Vader, who was also extremely tormented, still very dark though), I also see it as a major weakness in the sense that this is a huge roadblock for a dark side user's progress, especially one without a master to 'center' him.

 

[DarthBakura]

That's fine. I mean of course Sith are the best embodiment we've had imo, but there can be other dark side users. The only issue for now is that they are leaving us with zero explanation as to where this new non-Sith approach came from. You are right though, maybe we shouldn't expect what Lucas used to do.

Clearly though, the path of learning to 'ultimate power' has to be similar no matter what they call themselves. And btw I feel like they should have established a name by now for what Snoke and Kylo were, it's really annoying to just call them dark side users or other synonyms

Snoke seems to be quite fond of the Sith which is weird, not only the way he mentions Vader but also his ring which has writings connected to the Four Sage of Dwartii, the statues that were in Palpatine's office.
I have no doubt there will be a book or some kind of answers one way or another, we'll see what they come up with to fill in the gaps.

Snoke uses Sith ideology as a basis. He’s first and foremost a Dark Side being. The Sith Order evolved from Dark Jedi during the hundred-year darkness, if that’s even still canon anymore. So, they’re merely the antithesis to the Jedi, which are religious by nature.



Vader was the more calm and collected of the villains. After the events of the prequels anyway. It would make sense for Kylo to be the exact opposite, because he so desperately wants to be Vader, yet he’s unstable and troubled.

 

[RIDDICK]

of course Sith are the best embodiment we've had imo, but there can be other dark side users.

 

[crows]

Cirque du solei performers are getting too edgy in their outfits

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Cool. Snyder's tornado sequence had a purpose too. Both suck tho.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Cool. Snyder's tornado sequence had a purpose too. Both suck tho.

Yeah. It's a silly conceit that you needed that elaborate sequence to get that idea across; nor did Finn at any time appear to be acting selfish or greedily. Finn literally just could have answered "Rebel scum" at any time and we get it -- he's committed now.

Other than for cutaways, you could cut out the entire Casino planet sequence and lose nothing storywise. Finn and Rose could set out with an intention and simply be snatched up by the FO and be confronted by Phasma. In fact, Phasma hunting down and capturing "the traitor" would have been a more interesting and possibly exciting sequence, along with building up ol' Phasma a bit more.

 

[greedo737]

Yeah. It's a silly conceit that you needed that elaborate sequence to get that idea across; nor did Finn at any time appear to be acting selfish or greedily. Finn literally just could have answered "Rebel scum" at any time and we get it -- he's committed now.

Other than for cutaways, you could cut out the entire Casino planet sequence and lose nothing storywise. Finn and Rose could set out with an intention and simply be snatched up by the FO and be confronted by Phasma. In fact, Phasma hunting down and capturing "the traitor" would have been a more interesting and possibly exciting sequence, along with building up ol' Phasma a bit more.

Great idea. Too bad you didn’t write the movie [emoji26]

 

[crows]

Cool. Snyder's tornado sequence had a purpose too. Both suck tho.

Yeah. It's a silly conceit that you needed that elaborate sequence to get that idea across; nor did Finn at any time appear to be acting selfish or greedily. Finn literally just could have answered "Rebel scum" at any time and we get it -- he's committed now.

Other than for cutaways, you could cut out the entire Casino planet sequence and lose nothing storywise. Finn and Rose could set out with an intention and simply be snatched up by the FO and be confronted by Phasma. In fact, Phasma hunting down and capturing "the traitor" would have been a more interesting and possibly exciting sequence, along with building up ol' Phasma a bit more.

Hateful buckos

 

[Wor-Gar]

So much talk about Rogue One I decided to watch it again last night. Very good movie. Highly recommend.

That final battle is just so awesome and well constructed (even if not necessarily wholly logical). And besides being an ideal vacation spot, Scariff is a fantastic new setting to the Star Wars pantheon of locales.

 

[aa909]

Yeah. It's a silly conceit that you needed that elaborate sequence to get that idea across; nor did Finn at any time appear to be acting selfish or greedily. Finn literally just could have answered "Rebel scum" at any time and we get it -- he's committed now.

Other than for cutaways, you could cut out the entire Casino planet sequence and lose nothing storywise. Finn and Rose could set out with an intention and simply be snatched up by the FO and be confronted by Phasma. In fact, Phasma hunting down and capturing "the traitor" would have been a more interesting and possibly exciting sequence, along with building up ol' Phasma a bit more.

Nice, but that would only sorta fix 25% of the movie. The remaining 75% would still be a pile of burning garbage. How would you go about fixing the mammoth plot holes, crap characters and thin storyline without a complete rewrite

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Yeah. It's a silly conceit that you needed that elaborate sequence to get that idea across; nor did Finn at any time appear to be acting selfish or greedily. Finn literally just could have answered "Rebel scum" at any time and we get it -- he's committed now.

Other than for cutaways, you could cut out the entire Casino planet sequence and lose nothing storywise. Finn and Rose could set out with an intention and simply be snatched up by the FO and be confronted by Phasma.

The three of them are some of the worst filler in the history of movies. Made no difference to the main plot of the movie whatsoever. Phasma and Rose shouldn't exist, Finn should have been killed by Kylo in the woods on starkiller base.

But then again the main plot of TLJ served little point as well aside from the deaths of Luke and Snoke. Really we are right back where we left off when Rey was dueling Kylo in the forrest of starkiller base.... An Emo fighting a Mary Sue, this is Star Wars now folks.

 

[RIDDICK]

Rogue One. Very good movie.

 

[ZaCHw117]

I'm still under the impression that if it wasn't ****ing space horses, but pod-racing. It would have been a much more entertaining sequence.

 

[aa909]

Only way to fix the franchise is to replace KK and jettison Ruin.

Solo is DOA and likely won’t break $1B IMO... and JJ has a Herculean task ahead in saving episode 9. Let’s see how he handles it.

 

[ZaCHw117]

I think there's plenty of people looking forward to Solo, or at least interested to see what it will be. Keep in mind this flick made a ton of money, I don't think that's any indicator of the franchise pumping it's breaks or being DOA like DC/JL. Major difference.

 

[Khev]

So much talk about Rogue One I decided to watch it again last night. Very good movie. Highly recommend.

Yep.

RO/SW/ESB > SW/ESB/ROTJ

 

[Star-Crunch]

I'm still under the impression that if it wasn't ****ing space horses, but pod-racing. It would have been a much more entertaining sequence.

Yes! That was the first thing that I thought of. I was sorely disappointed.