It’s what Luke wanted and the force granted his wish.....the force, it works in mysterious ways
Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)
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It’s what Luke wanted and the force granted his wish.....the force, it works in mysterious ways
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This.
Johnson and Kennedy seemed to have an agenda throughout the film of trying to completely butcher everything that could have made this "a great Star Wars movie".
The apologists keep looking for hope (Snoke is alive, Luke will return as a Force Ghost who can fight, Kylo lied about Rey's parents, etc) because again, to them the world just doesn't make any sense when SW is creatively dead.
To them, Broom Kid is basically the SW Anti-Christ. The Usher of the End of Days they never thought existed nor would come. So for now they have to live in denial of his existence and effect on the franchise.
For me it's all crystal clear. Luke Skywalker died a stupid death, Leia turned into a Herald of Galactus, Rey is just Rey and Snoke is some random Dark-sider nobody even cared ebough about to explore.
The Knights of Ren? Who cares. The First Order? Who cares. Kylo vs. Rey Round 3? Don't bother.
Star Wars is dead.
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD
Just saw it a second time, this time with an audience that was living (The first viewing was on opening Thurs at 7 and you would have thought it had been in the theaters for 6 months already and it was a matinee - plenty of sets left and no response to anything, even the opening).
I have to say, that maybe this time I wasn't "taken out of it" by something that jarred me. I think the Hux/Poe "hold" exchange started me down a dark path of "Wait a second..." thoughts. The rest of the opening brought me back in (the bombing of the SD I thought was a great sequence.)
So this time I wasn't being laser-focused on finding things that felt "off" and I enjoyed it a bit more. The audience I was with genuinely did - applauding in a bunch of places; Snoke's demise, the battle with the guards that followed, and a few others. I enjoyed the Yoda scene a little more, even though the puppet was not quite right-looking. I tried to let go a little more.
Still didn't bring it up much for me though. I was with some people who are not SW fanatics by any means and while they enjoyed it, the too said there was too much goofy humor in it.
Still hate the way he treated the FO, especially Hux, who in TFA seemed like he could really be an unhinged leader, willing to kill those around him who he thought were unworthy or unwilling, etc., but is now just a cartoon bad guy. None of the Imperials were ever like this, inept at times maybe, but not goofy. The Admiral on the first Dreadnought was a better character.
There was too much unnecessary dialog in places and not enough dialog in others. When Rey's escape pod appears out of almost nowhere - why not shoot it down? I'm sure Kylo and Snoke knew who was aboard but something like Hux saying "shoot is down" and Kylo telling him "No" he'll handle it. Less would have been more in the final act when Luke walks through the door of the base - he could have simply said "Run." or "Go." and saved the over-earnest Finn dialog about helping him and the "duh" dialog from Poe about Luke killing time for them to get out. Leia likely would have known his intentions and told everyone to find a way out.
Just saw it a second time, this time with an audience that was living (The first viewing was on opening Thurs at 7 and you would have thought it had been in the theaters for 6 months already and it was a matinee - plenty of sets left and no response to anything, even the opening).
I have to say, that maybe this time I wasn't "taken out of it" by something that jarred me. I think the Hux/Poe "hold" exchange started me down a dark path of "Wait a second..." thoughts. The rest of the opening brought me back in (the bombing of the SD I thought was a great sequence.)
So this time I wasn't being laser-focused on finding things that felt "off" and I enjoyed it a bit more. The audience I was with genuinely did - applauding in a bunch of places; Snoke's demise, the battle with the guards that followed, and a few others. I enjoyed the Yoda scene a little more, even though the puppet was not quite right-looking. I tried to let go a little more.
Still didn't bring it up much for me though. I was with some people who are not SW fanatics by any means and while they enjoyed it, the too said there was too much goofy humor in it.
Still hate the way he treated the FO, especially Hux, who in TFA seemed like he could really be an unhinged leader, willing to kill those around him who he thought were unworthy or unwilling, etc., but is now just a cartoon bad guy. None of the Imperials were ever like this, inept at times maybe, but not goofy. The Admiral on the first Dreadnought was a better character.
There was too much unnecessary dialog in places and not enough dialog in others. When Rey's escape pod appears out of almost nowhere - why not shoot it down? I'm sure Kylo and Snoke knew who was aboard but something like Hux saying "shoot is down" and Kylo telling him "No" he'll handle it. Less would have been more in the final act when Luke walks through the door of the base - he could have simply said "Run." or "Go." and saved the over-earnest Finn dialog about helping him and the "duh" dialog from Poe about Luke killing time for them to get out. Leia likely would have known his intentions and told everyone to find a way out.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD
Yep, and in doing so, Disney moralism implicitly advocates for hierarchy. So long as there is diverse representation among those who rule you, it is "just" that you're being ruled. Respect the chain of command, obey the rules, do what you're told. It's authoritarian propaganda: conservatism wrapped in a veneer of tolerance.
"Hey, there's a woman telling me that I'm obligated to do things! How progressive!"
Yep, and in doing so, Disney moralism implicitly advocates for hierarchy. So long as there is diverse representation among those who rule you, it is "just" that you're being ruled. Respect the chain of command, obey the rules, do what you're told. It's authoritarian propaganda: conservatism wrapped in a veneer of tolerance.
"Hey, there's a woman telling me that I'm obligated to do things! How progressive!"
jye4ever
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But what happens if those elements are addressed in 9, too late?
Are you going to write off these movies just because your theories didn’t pan out in 8?
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ShadowX81
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD
I agree, it what bothers me the most is people praising it for this very angle.
Saying how genius is is that Luke turned out to be some bitter old man who never accomplished anything. How it is a lesson that the heroism and optimism of the OT was an unrealistic fantasy and we shouldn't look up to these characters as heroes.
Why would I want that from Star Wars? Fun, optimistic adventure and larger than life heroes are exactly what I watch Star Wars for to begin with!
I agree, it what bothers me the most is people praising it for this very angle.
Saying how genius is is that Luke turned out to be some bitter old man who never accomplished anything. How it is a lesson that the heroism and optimism of the OT was an unrealistic fantasy and we shouldn't look up to these characters as heroes.
Why would I want that from Star Wars? Fun, optimistic adventure and larger than life heroes are exactly what I watch Star Wars for to begin with!
Dresky
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD
No no no... What i'm saying is they were written 40 years ago.
People don't think the same way in 2017. Stuff happened, tech evolved, mentalities changed, etc. The whole point of the ST is to "pass the torch" to a new generation. What made sense to people in 1977-84 doesn't apply to people in 2017. Can't remember where, but there was a table comparing reviews with age of the reviewers and the younger audience gave TLJ a 9/10 while the 45+ gave it 7/10. I think it's just normal.
Personnally, i like where things are going. You have the final showdown between Ren who thinks he should rule over the galaxy because of his name/heritage and Rey "the nobody" who thinks everyone should get a better chance at life. It's way better than already expecting EP9 to be a RotJ rehash with a final confrontation between Rey and Snoke, with Ren being redeemed like Vader.
In fact, i'm wondering if the initial thought of Disney wasn't just to do a subtile reboot of the OT for a new generation, but when they saw the negative about TFA's story, they changed their minds.
No no no... What i'm saying is they were written 40 years ago.
People don't think the same way in 2017. Stuff happened, tech evolved, mentalities changed, etc. The whole point of the ST is to "pass the torch" to a new generation. What made sense to people in 1977-84 doesn't apply to people in 2017. Can't remember where, but there was a table comparing reviews with age of the reviewers and the younger audience gave TLJ a 9/10 while the 45+ gave it 7/10. I think it's just normal.
Personnally, i like where things are going. You have the final showdown between Ren who thinks he should rule over the galaxy because of his name/heritage and Rey "the nobody" who thinks everyone should get a better chance at life. It's way better than already expecting EP9 to be a RotJ rehash with a final confrontation between Rey and Snoke, with Ren being redeemed like Vader.
In fact, i'm wondering if the initial thought of Disney wasn't just to do a subtile reboot of the OT for a new generation, but when they saw the negative about TFA's story, they changed their minds.
Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD
Some of these question/comments make me wonder if people actually paid attention to the film at all? Most of the issues people discuss had clear explainations, now if you do not like those explanations , I can respect that....but seems alot of comments on here are people projecting their personal political issues with society on a film .......that has been compared so much to OT that it makes ZERO sense to bash it on the premise level......maybe the issue is your really mad that you grew up to become a cynical jaded human and your frustrated you cannot see these films with they eyes of a child...
If I were to write the next film, one thing I would do it make Snoke a puppet. Make Kyloe so friggin crazy that Snoke was really some zombie like thrall controlled by his sub conscience, or even make Hux the true bad guy behind Snoke....
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Some of these question/comments make me wonder if people actually paid attention to the film at all? Most of the issues people discuss had clear explainations, now if you do not like those explanations , I can respect that....but seems alot of comments on here are people projecting their personal political issues with society on a film .......that has been compared so much to OT that it makes ZERO sense to bash it on the premise level......maybe the issue is your really mad that you grew up to become a cynical jaded human and your frustrated you cannot see these films with they eyes of a child...
If I were to write the next film, one thing I would do it make Snoke a puppet. Make Kyloe so friggin crazy that Snoke was really some zombie like thrall controlled by his sub conscience, or even make Hux the true bad guy behind Snoke....
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ShadowX81
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD
This isn't about updating Star Wars so a new generation can enjoy it. They already enjoy it just fine. This is about taking an established property that kids love and finding a way to make money off of it again. Because all the love that kids currently posess for Star Wars doesn't make Disney any money.
Like what exactly? We've already estaished that kids like the OT just fine. So what "mentalities" does the OT possess that kids can't relate to anymore?
This isn't about updating Star Wars so a new generation can enjoy it. They already enjoy it just fine. This is about taking an established property that kids love and finding a way to make money off of it again. Because all the love that kids currently posess for Star Wars doesn't make Disney any money.
Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD
Yes capitalism at its best, and they will have people who buy into it and those that do not...
Same as when they decided to make the PT?
So whats the problem? Its always about money. You somehow think its changed now? OT sequels, PT and now were all about money.
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Yes capitalism at its best, and they will have people who buy into it and those that do not...
Same as when they decided to make the PT?
So whats the problem? Its always about money. You somehow think its changed now? OT sequels, PT and now were all about money.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD
If films are a product of their time it's no wonder the film was bad: a mentally unstable reality TV star is the leader of the free world.
Oh, and now I just realised who Kylo is based on...
If films are a product of their time it's no wonder the film was bad: a mentally unstable reality TV star is the leader of the free world.
Oh, and now I just realised who Kylo is based on...
Craig Walker
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ShadowX81
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD
Not at all. I just hate when they try and hide it behind some other agenda. It insults both the audience and the OT.
Like whenever a reviewer starts off saying "It's great that a new generation can enjoy Star Wars". All I think to myself is "Was thier tv broken? Because the new generation already has plenty of it to enjoy."
Not at all. I just hate when they try and hide it behind some other agenda. It insults both the audience and the OT.
Like whenever a reviewer starts off saying "It's great that a new generation can enjoy Star Wars". All I think to myself is "Was thier tv broken? Because the new generation already has plenty of it to enjoy."
The Clown Prince of Crime
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Snoke's imagen as a top villain was ruined, imo. They showed that ***** with his tongue sticking out.
If they make any big changes to the characters or story, they will look just as clueless as WB.
If they make any big changes to the characters or story, they will look just as clueless as WB.
jal76
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dan350zr
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The big difference is the general audience agreed Justice League was bad (based on ticket sales), where as that is not the case with TLJ as it's going to fly past Justice League in money earned. You and your friends may not like it but when a movie blows past a billion in revenue (which I'm sure TLJ will do), it says the general audience liked it even if hardcore fans didn't.
Hell, TLJ made more in two days then Justice Leagues total domestic take...
Really says alot about the way people care about a story when they start trying to make it about real world politics and some tim foil hate wearing brainwashing agenda....
I mean its a MOVIE....too bad so many people have made it such a core of their lives to have such a visceral reaction to it.
Some of these comments are kinda sad.....like people lost an actual real relative or friend cause they didn't like a MOVIE.....
Meanwhile , in real life, the world goes to hell and no one is paying attention because Disney ruined MuH Star Wars....
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I mean its a MOVIE....too bad so many people have made it such a core of their lives to have such a visceral reaction to it.
Some of these comments are kinda sad.....like people lost an actual real relative or friend cause they didn't like a MOVIE.....
Meanwhile , in real life, the world goes to hell and no one is paying attention because Disney ruined MuH Star Wars....
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD
I understand what you're saying. The younger generation is more concerned with self-perception. If they care about identity, who are we old folks to tell them they shouldn't?
The problem is that it's irrational. Identity politics isn't new. It's old. It's something the baby boomers concocted, that millennials have fallen for. It's the idea that you'll be happy so long as you receive recognition, for being what you are. That's an objectively false statement, that leads to stagnant failure. Meanwhile, Hollywood has a lengthy, well documented history of wielding propaganda as a form of social control. That's not a conspiracy theory; it's a well documented fact. So, when a set of normative beliefs are consistently being crammed down your throat, it's reasonable to question those ideas.
I understand what you're saying. The younger generation is more concerned with self-perception. If they care about identity, who are we old folks to tell them they shouldn't?
The problem is that it's irrational. Identity politics isn't new. It's old. It's something the baby boomers concocted, that millennials have fallen for. It's the idea that you'll be happy so long as you receive recognition, for being what you are. That's an objectively false statement, that leads to stagnant failure. Meanwhile, Hollywood has a lengthy, well documented history of wielding propaganda as a form of social control. That's not a conspiracy theory; it's a well documented fact. So, when a set of normative beliefs are consistently being crammed down your throat, it's reasonable to question those ideas.
Dresky
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD
My kids don't enjoy the OT. Heck, i can't even watch ANH anymore (gasp i know, worst fan ever).
Maybe it's just the esthetics of it all. Right now, my boys are playing with BB-8, Kylo and the lobster guards figures. And not because i force them too lol, but they had the choice and none of them picked up Old Man Luke.
The wheel spins. I take what i like from Star Wars. I'm not telling anyone to like TLJ, but i don't want anyone telling me not to like it.
My kids don't enjoy the OT. Heck, i can't even watch ANH anymore (gasp i know, worst fan ever).
Maybe it's just the esthetics of it all. Right now, my boys are playing with BB-8, Kylo and the lobster guards figures. And not because i force them too lol, but they had the choice and none of them picked up Old Man Luke.
The wheel spins. I take what i like from Star Wars. I'm not telling anyone to like TLJ, but i don't want anyone telling me not to like it.
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