Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[Prime Clone]

Maybe you’re right the PT are just misunderstood masterpieces that the 8 of you on here that truly love them are the only ones fully able to grasp the genius behind them.

The rest of us have failed GL.

I hope one day to grow up to possess the sort of intelligence needed to love the PT.

God please can you do that for me the PT deserve no less from me.

I do pity those who hate them, it must have been hard. I didn’t think much of TPM at the time so I can kinda sympathise.

Come to think of it, I had similar mixed emotions at the end of TLJ. Like, should I like it just cos it’s SW?

 

[Bravomite]

The only reason I could see KK approving this is the possibility of a "kid Jedi" spin-off trilogy. It's otherwise way too risky (which in itself is a good thing, but the risk seems to have backfired).

She approved it because it fit with her agenda ...

(1) Let the past die (Lucas and his legacy) - the movie goes out of its way to dismantle both the OT and the PT - the way is clear for the next generation to enjoy Kathleen's Star Wars .... And what is that?

(2) Kathleen's Star Wars is about pushing her version of a 'modern' 'liberal' agenda (I'm not a conservative guy and this should appeal to me but it doesn't as it's too in your face and awkward):

(a) women's empowerment - Rey is awesome, Leia exhibits latent off the chart force powers, admiral hodu saves the fleet via self sacrifice, Rose's sister took out the dreadnaught also in a moment of sacrifice and Rose herself was there to keep Finn on message. Men are comedic relief side characters at best and / or the villains.

For many people their greatest childhood hero "Luke Skywalker" is now unrecognisable and his legacy tainted - he also gets bested by Rey and entertains the idea of killing his nephew wtf, all men suck I guess ... It seems that the message from the ST is that even if a man was once a hero in your eyes he will eventually let you down like Han and Luke (Leia is notably untainted by the failure stick, she has to rally round and pick up the slack where her husband and brother and son have failed her).

Gender politics does not need to be in Star Wars. I'd have been plenty happy with a well rounded female protagonist character being the hero of the ST but not at the expense of all the male characters left alive in the saga - that's just weak and a bad example for kids. Both sexes should be equally important.

(b) anyone can be the hero - I don't mind this idea but it just feels ill timed to me. The main saga (episodes 1 to 9) are supposed to be about the Skywalker family. I'd be happy for accio broomstick Harry Potter kid to be at the very end of 9 like hey that's the end of the Skywalker saga kids but the important thing to remeber is that anyone can be the hero in real life (but unlike Rey you will actually have to work hard... like Luke did in the OT).

We are now going into 9 and the only two Skywalker's left (I know they are Solos) are Leia (who can't really be in it sadly) and Kylo the villian who has already failed to turn in 9. Kylo the last Skywalker is bad and seemingly irredeemable (kill them all no survivors) against Rey (anyone can be a hero). It's just a weird and an uninteresting way to set up the final chapter in the Skywalker saga.

(3) political correct casting - no problem with this but if you really want to go with shades of gray in your story why not reflect that in your casting and have some of the bad guys also be from different ethnicities?

I expect this movie will make bank easily because it's Star Wars. They will explain away the fan backlash by saying us older fans got butt hurt over these new liberal ideas, we can't accept change and that the movie ain't for us ... I anticipate Rian will also be offered as a sacrifice to us and his trilogy (that was likely just a marketing ploy) will be 'taken away'. Kathleen will still reign supreme and won't be phased by any of this... I expect she anticipated it all.

Now that I think about it, she is actually the real life Darth Sidious haha, she betrayed and murdered her master (well Lucas's legacy), she was the real threat to the Star Wars that we grew up with all along and like the Jedi many of us were blind to it and now our interest in the franchise is gone ... Lastly (and this is her killer stroke) she has corrupted our children lol and just like Anakin they believe her Nu Star Wars is Star Wars. At least obi wan could opt out become a hermit... I'm going to have to watch these films over and over with my kid!!!

 

[Autumn Thunder]

Why did Luke make the map in R-2 if he didn't want to be found? Just too many WTF moments. I actually feel sorry for Abrams.

 

[Autumn Thunder]

She approved it because it fit with her agenda ...

(1) Let the past die (Lucas and his legacy) - the movie goes out of its way to dismantle both the OT and the PT - the way is clear for the next generation to enjoy Kathleen's Star Wars .... And what is that?

(2) Kathleen's Star Wars is about pushing her version of a 'modern' 'liberal' agenda (I'm not a conservative guy and this should appeal to me but it doesn't as it's too in your face and awkward):

(a) women's empowerment - Rey is awesome, Leia exhibits latent off the chart force powers, admiral hodu saves the fleet via self sacrifice, Rose's sister took out the dreadnaught also in a moment of sacrifice and Rose herself was there to keep Finn on message. Men are comedic relief side characters at best and / or the villains.

For many people their greatest childhood hero "Luke Skywalker" is now unrecognisable and his legacy tainted - he also gets bested by Rey and entertains the idea of killing his nephew wtf, all men suck I guess ... It seems that the message from the ST is that even if a man was once a hero in your eyes he will eventually let you down like Han and Luke (Leia is notably untainted by the failure stick, she has to rally round and pick up the slack where her husband and brother and son have failed her).

Gender politics does not need to be in Star Wars. I'd have been plenty happy with a well rounded female protagonist character being the hero of the seat but not at the expense of all the male characters left alive in the saga - that's just weak and a bad example for kids. Both sexes should be equally important.

(b) anyone can be the hero - I don't mind this but it surely it has been ill timed? The main saga (episodes 1 to 9) are supposed to be about the Skywalker family. I'd be happy for accio broomstick Harry Potter kid to be at the very end of 9 like hey that's the end of the Skywalker saga kids but the important thing to remeber is that anyone can be the hero in real life (but unlike Rey you will actually have to work hard... like Luke did in the OT).

We are now going into 9 and the only two Skywalker's left (I know they are Solos) are Leia (who can't really be in it sadly) and Kylo the villian who has already failed to turn in 9. Kylo the last Skywalker is bad and seemingly irredeemable (kill them all no survivors) against Rey (anyone can be a hero). It's just a weird and an uninteresting way to set up the final chapter in the Skywalker saga.

(3) political correct casting - no problem with this but if you really want to go with shades of gray in your story why not reflect that in your casting and have some of the bad guys also be from different ethnicities?

I expect this movie will make bank easily because it's Star Wars. They will explain away the fan backlash by saying us older fans got butt hurt over these new liberal ideas, we can't accept change and that the movie ain't for us ... I anticipate Rian will also be offered as a sacrifice to us and his trilogy (that was likely just a marketing ploy) will be 'taken away'. Kathleen will still reign supreme and won't be phased by any of this... I expect she anticipated it all.

Now that I think about it, she is actually the real life Darth Sidious haha, she betrayed and murdered her master (well Lucas's legacy), she was the real threat to the Star Wars that we grew up with all along and like the Jedi many of us were blind to it and now our interest in the franchise is gone ... Lastly (and this is her killer stroke) she has corrupted our children lol and just like Anakin they believe her Nu Star Wars is Star Wars. At least obi wan could opt out become a hermit... I'm going to have to watch these films ad infinitum with my kid!!!

I ALWAYS THOUGHT SHE WAS GOING TO BE THE ONE TO RIGHT THE SHIP.

What was all this talk pre ep7 about practical effects, less CGI, less prequels, getting back to good ol story telling just to give the middle finger to everyone except only the most severe apologists?

 

[Otomofan]

Re: Star Wars Episode VIII (Dec 15th, 2017)

All I know is that if Luke disappears when he dies, imma scream "MEMBA OBI-WAN KENOBI, MEMBA YODA" in my theater before projectile vomiting on whoever is around me.

We're still going to see a movie together, right Jye?

Did you do it?

 

[NoHeadStark]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Overall I didn't think it was a terrible movie but man, Snoke's death was really lame. He shows extensive power with the Force by pulling and dragging Hux down to the floor through a hologram, bridges the minds of Ren and Rey, has the shock powers of Sidious, knocks back Rey with a nudge of his finger, claims to know all of Ren's thoughts, but...
HE CAN'T FEEL OR SEE A SABER LAYING RIGHT BY HIS ARM MOVING?!??!

And those "elite" praetorian guards might as well have been decorations on the wall. They had one job. Or is it two? (Gotta sell those toys!)

Another detail that bothered me: the whole reason Finn gets involved with the Resistance is that he needs a pilot to escape his stormie life because get this, he doesn't know how to fly things. But somehow, after almost getting killed by Ren, in his recovery he has somehow become a capable pilot and is now able to fly some old tech, run-down Resistance fighter straight into an Empire army. Yeah, ok

And wasn't Rose just a mechanic? But now she is also an experienced pilot and is able to run into Finns fighter without killing both of them instantly. I get that its a Star Wars movie but some of Rian's story decisions make no damn sense. At first I thought it was Poe who had saved him.

I want to stay positive about this movie so I won't get into how I feel about Rian's butchering of Luke's character and the whole Rey's now a Jedi angle.

 

[jye4ever]

I do pity those who hate them, it must have been hard. I didn’t think much of TPM at the time so I can kinda sympathise.

Come to think of it, I had similar mixed emotions at the end of TLJ. Like, should I like it just cos it’s SW?

Mixed is the key word Prime.

All i’m saying is that they have all been mixed bags since ROTJ.

It’s perfectly fine to hate these but to hate these and then turn around claim the PT are great compared to these new movies just makes you look like an idiot to my eyes. The PT are universally despised for very good reasons.

Certain elements of the PT are better but I can only come up with 3 elements right now though, make that 2.

GL only has himself to blame for titty sucking Luke because he would still own the rights to SW had he not surrounded himself with YES men and women.

Wait did Luke titty suck or just squeeze into a bottle lol

 

[klwn]

Why did Luke make the map in R-2 if he didn't want to be found? Just too many WTF moments. I actually feel sorry for Abrams.

Haha good point.
Rian ****ing murdered JJ's work.

 

[Knightstalker]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Just so many bizarre story choices and moments in this movie. What was the point of Admiral Holdo and Poe’s mutiny? Wouldn’t it have been more epic if it was Admiral Ackbar that plowed into the FO cruiser at light speed instead of his wasted death. Or how about BB8 shooting casino chips at the cops and hijacking an AT-ST? Embarrassing. Rian Johnson just seemed like he had no idea what to do with any of these characaters at all. Just feels like Disney, Kathleen Kennedy and the rest of these clowns have no respect for anything from the OT or anything that GL established. At least now I can say that TFA isn’t the worst Star Wars movie ever made. TFA is a better film in that at least its half hour shorter. God awful movie.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

The ******** in this thread is hilarious

 

[Autumn Thunder]

Haha good point.
Rian ****ing murdered JJ's work.

Also i thought the movie was just boring besides all that is wrong with it. (Didn't feel that way for EP7)

 

[darth toffeeman]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Exactly this. These new films contradict everything the OT stood for. People may think this is a sad thing for me to say, but as a kid and to this day my whole life / morality ethos was built around the OT. These new films are mocking all that I took from the original films from a morality perspective. It feels like Disney are just taking the piss out of Star Wars and making some detached “throw away” space movie franchise. DISNEY this is STAR WARS you *****king idiots!!!

Make this into a plaque.

I would sooner put that up in my Star Wars collection than any merchandise from this pile of **** movie.

 

[dan350zr]

SPOILERS

A lot of good points brought up in here... That said, I still think it was a fun movie to watch as long as you don't pull at any of the story threads, because if you do the whole story falls apart.... The badly written story is covered up with lots of action and humor so most people probably won't notice it. But hardcore fans will want to dissect the story apart which I don't blame them. For me, some of the most glaring issues is Rey, how does she go from a lowly scavenger to the skill of a Master Jedi Knight overnight with ZERO training?

In Return of the Jedi I get why Luke turns himself into the Empire to try and turn Darth Vader, it was his Dad.... But Rey has ZERO connection with Kylo Ren, he killed Han Solo in front of her, put her only friend Finn into a comma and tries to kill her, yet she's willing to turn herself into the first order to try and save him? Why? It makes no sense.

And why would you have Luke spend the entire movie feeling sorry for himself and then cap it off by force projecting himself across the galaxy just so he can die afterwards? That's a horrible ending to the biggest character in the Star Wars story.

This movie should been about Luke training Rey and if you had to get rid of Luke then it should of been a epic battle between Luke and Snoke, with Snoke delivering a injury that eventually kills Luke but not before Luke does some amazing move that kills Snoke.. Now that would of been a more fitting way for Luke to go out... At least a lot better then him using his life energy to be a hologram....

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Kylo's favorite scene in the GFII

 

[Spazz]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Overall I didn't think it was a terrible movie but man, Snoke's death was really lame. He shows extensive power with the Force by pulling and dragging Hux down to the floor through a hologram, bridges the minds of Ren and Rey, has the shock powers of Sidious, knocks back Rey with a nudge of his finger, claims to know all of Ren's thoughts, but...
HE CAN'T FEEL OR SEE A SABER LAYING RIGHT BY HIS ARM MOVING?!??!

And those "elite" praetorian guards might as well have been decorations on the wall. They had one job. Or is it two? (Gotta sell those toys!)

Another detail that bothered me: the whole reason Finn gets involved with the Resistance is that he needs a pilot to escape his stormie life because get this, he doesn't know how to fly things. But somehow, after almost getting killed by Ren, in his recovery he has somehow become a capable pilot and is now able to fly some old tech, run-down Resistance fighter straight into an Empire army. Yeah, ok

And wasn't Rose just a mechanic? But now she is also an experienced pilot and is able to run into Finns fighter without killing both of them instantly. I get that its a Star Wars movie but some of Rian's story decisions make no damn sense. At first I thought it was Poe who had saved him.

I want to stay positive about this movie so I won't get into how I feel about Rian's butchering of Luke's character and the whole Rey's now a Jedi angle.

Hahahaha. I hadn't noticed that. Wow. I guess anyone can learn how to be a pilot, so long as they dig deep enough and find their inner pilot. And hope. Lots of hope.

 

[jye4ever]

A lot of good points brought up in here... That said, I still think it was a fun movie to watch as long as you don't pull at any of the story threads, because if you do the whole story falls apart.... The badly written story is covered up with lots of action and humor so most people probably won't notice it. But hardcore fans will want to dissect the story apart which I don't blame them. For me, some of the most glaring issues is Rey, how does she go from a lowly scavenger to the skill of a Master Jedi Knight overnight with ZERO training? In Return of the Jedi I get why Luke turns himself into the Empire to try and turn Darth Vader, it was his Dad.... But Rey has ZERO connection with Kylo Ren, he killed Han Solo in front of her, put her only friend Finn into a comma and tries to kill her, yet she's willing to turn herself into the first order to try and save him?

And why would have Luke spend the entire movie feeling sorry for himself and then cap it off by force projecting himself across the galaxy just so he can die afterwards?

This movie should been about Luke training Rey and if you had to get rid of Luke then it should of been a epic battle between Luke and Snoke, with Snoke delivering a fatal blow to Luke but not before Luke does some amazing move that kills Snoke.. Now that would of been a more fitting way for Luke to go out... At least a lot better then him using his life energy to be a hologram....

See i’m not hating on Rey being that way.

My thing is so Rey can’t do it but with Luke it’s ok?

How old was Luke when he started then he didn’t even complete his training but fans now expect him to be a master, why?

He got his ass handed to him by the emperor.

Luke was always an outsider looking into that Jedi world never having fully gone thru the system and you know what the system was a mess anyways and he recognized that.

Sure maybe because of his victory at ROTJ and seeing the ghosts he was happy at that moment in time but like everyone else that grows up you eventually start to lose faith in any large preachy institution.

 

[medicomsucks]

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi SPOILER DISCUSSION THREAD

Just so many bizarre story choices and moments in this movie. What was the point of Admiral Holdo and Poe’s mutiny? Wouldn’t it have been more epic if it was Admiral Ackbar that plowed into the FO cruiser at light speed instead of his wasted death.

Its 2017, along with diversification, this series is trying to keep its protagonists female. At least that's what it seems like to me.

 

[jye4ever]

This is an interesting point. I'd like to round up all the people that hate the prequels for the various reasons,

- R2 having rocket flying legs and oil slick abilities
- characters like Jar Jar Binks, Boss Nass, Dexter the diner cook bro, etc.
- CGI environments and creatures
- over choreographed fight sequences
- midichlorians
- Anakin and Boba as bratty kids
- one note villains like Maul, Jango, Dooku and Grievous
- in-story politics about trade and taxation (so Palpatine can overthrow the republic)

but seemingly loved Last Jedi and it's

- ship piloting, explosion surviving, coin storing, machine gun shooting, AT-ST controlling, BB-8
- Max Kannata, the screeching, big tittied Opera casino, little drunk Alien man
- fake looking throne room, fake looking salt planet, fake looking porgs, fake looking crystal foxes, fake Yoda, etc. etc.
- Kylo, Rey and the lobster guards having a dance off in Snookies club, Chuck Norris looking Luke doing Matrix lightsaber dodges
- Super Liea flying through space, projecting a hologram of your self across the galaxy, EVERYONE being able to use the force, including these poor Disney kids that looked like they walked off the set of the Newsies
- Luke's characterization being ruined post OT, only used to advance the new characters
- 4 whole minutes of Chrome Dome, 5 minutes of Snoke before both are killed off
- out of story politics like the rich being evil, Rose being a dirty communist that wants to send her fist through the upper class, animal abuse, feminism, arms dealing, etc. etc.


And ask them what their deal is.


Save for maybe wooden acting, I'd say TLJ easily double downs on all the flaws the prequels had, and then some. The only difference is, I think Lucas and his crew put more heart into the making of those three films than anyone put into the Last Jedi. It's like the people that made this hate Star Wars.

There might be some truth to your last sentence based on the meta pontificating going on in TLJ.

There were times were I felt like it wasn’t the character talking but the social meta message doing the exposition.

I don’t know if that makes any sense I still need more coffee.

And please don’t turn into Snikt i’m waiting for you to write “AOTC is a masterpiece compared to this”!

You’re getting close lol.

Shame there’s no data to show who hates this movie more conservatives or liberals i’m curious now lol.

 

[dan350zr]

This is an interesting point. I'd like to round up all the people that hate the prequels for the various reasons,

- R2 having rocket flying legs and oil slick abilities
- characters like Jar Jar Binks, Boss Nass, Dexter the diner cook bro, etc.
- CGI environments and creatures
- over choreographed fight sequences
- midichlorians
- Anakin and Boba as bratty kids
- one note villains like Maul, Jango, Dooku and Grievous
- in-story politics about trade and taxation (so Palpatine can overthrow the republic)

but seemingly loved Last Jedi and it's

- ship piloting, explosion surviving, coin storing, machine gun shooting, AT-ST controlling, BB-8
- Max Kannata, the screeching, big tittied Opera casino, little drunk Alien man
- fake looking throne room, fake looking salt planet, fake looking porgs, fake looking crystal foxes, fake Yoda, etc. etc.
- Kylo, Rey and the lobster guards having a dance off in Snookies club, Chuck Norris looking Luke doing Matrix lightsaber dodges
- Super Liea flying through space, projecting a hologram of your self across the galaxy, EVERYONE being able to use the force, including these poor Disney kids that looked like they walked off the set of the Newsies
- Luke's characterization being ruined post OT, only used to advance the new characters
- 4 whole minutes of Chrome Dome, 5 minutes of Snoke before both are killed off
- out of story politics like the rich being evil, Rose being a dirty communist that wants to send her fist through the upper class, animal abuse, feminism, arms dealing, etc. etc.


And ask them what their deal is.


Save for maybe wooden acting, I'd say TLJ easily double downs on all the flaws the prequels had, and then some. The only difference is, I think Lucas and his crew put more heart into the making of those three films than anyone put into the Last Jedi. It's like the people that made this hate Star Wars.




Hell, I don't see how something as bad as the Last Jedi gets a free pass, but other movies that are similarly bad like Justice League or what have you get completely destroyed critically and financially.

Legit complaints against the prequels was the wooden acting, the annoying Jar Jar binks and over use of CGI.... But the biggest issue is the horrible wooden acting which just made the prequels very hard to watch. Most of the list you wrote against TLJ seems like your reaching a bit to try and find flaws in it.

I agree about questionable force powers that allow Leia to fly through space, Snoke to do a mind meld between Rey and Kylo even though he's never met or been around Rey and Luke projecting himself halfway across the galaxy which then uses up his life force and he dies, I also agree that Rey being a Master Jedi with no combat training or force training was also lame... But were the prequels felt like being stuck in traffic due to the horrible acting and dialogue, TLJ was more of a fun roller coaster ride as long as you didn't pull at any of the story threads

As for Justice League, it was just plain bad across the board... The story the acting the over use of CGI that wasn't even realistic looking so it stuck out like a soar thumb. You didn't have to be a hardcore fan of DC to see how bad Justice League was. As for the Last Jedi, the average movie goer isn't going to notice the stuff hardcore fans do...

 

[noface]

Obi-wan vs Vader made by PhilipSilvera
Reimagined fight scene
https://www.instagram.com/p/BcyrWAQgtWA/

Wish we could've got something like this in the LJ. So disappointed we didn't get to see Luke fight with his lightsaber.