Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[Spazz]

It's ironic - quite a talented "real filmmaker" like Johnson strikes out with SW, while the return of a mediocre shaper of intellectual property like JJ emerges as the savior of SW. Maybe it really just comes down to a love of the material, and JJ beat Johnson on that front.

Yeah, I see your point. You may be onto something, there. I really liked Johnson's film "Looper", quite a bit. I've seen it twice. His mishandling of this film really took me by surprise.

I think part of the problem is that Johnson approached the film like a Game of Thrones episode, instead of serial fiction. Instead of breaking the film up into acts, he wrote it as a series of interwoven subplots that got away from him. That, and I think his narrative structure was too video game-esque, where people headed straight for the object of their desire, achieved it, then moved onto the next... It was a very amateurish narrative structure. He's just not a very good writer.

 

[xipotec]

56% doesn't mean half like it. the question is not a 0 or 1 score, it's on a scale so a score of 56% means it's average or below average in the context of all other movies. here's RT historical scoring of all movies over time. TLJ ranks towards the bottom of this trend line.

It actually does....read the actual reviews and it’s obvious .


And the point of the post is that Disney is very happy with the profits coming from this film. So they will stay the course so long as the name Star Wars brings paying audiences.

Like it or not, the only way this will change is if people stop going to see them......

So if this is the BvsS of the SW world , things might change.....otherwise the next film will be JL.......

And I don’t think DC has learned its lesson yet either.....

Disney does have another marker.....toys and merchandise sales.


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[jye4ever]

I wonder if people complaining about the SJW heavy TLJ realize that their childhood hero Hamill hates with a passion right wingers and was probably a driving force himself to load the movie up with that stuff.

As he gets older he can barely contain himself anymore about his hatred towards them.

 

[klwn]

I wonder if people complaining about the SJW heavy TLJ realize that their childhood hero Hamill hates with a passion right wingers and was probably a driving force himself to load the movie up with that stuff.

As he gets older he can barely contain himself anymore about his hatred towards them.

I vote left (in France, so basically a traitor in the US) and I am vegan. Still ****ing hated the movie and its attempts at political messages.

So don't generalize.

That being said, yes, I think some people don't realize what the point of the SW is with the good vs evil thing, and what the convictions of the actors are.
It's kinda like racists that listen to Stevie Ray Vaughan.

 

[jye4ever]

I vote left (in France, so basically a traitor in the US) and I am vegan. Still ****ing hated the movie and its attempts at political messages.

So don't generalize.

That being said, yes, I think some people don't realize what the point of the SW is with the good vs evil thing, and what the convictions of the actors are.
It's kinda like racists that listen to Stevie Ray Vaughan.

Not generalizing just saying that Hamill probably had no problem with the SJW stuff in the script.

He probably advocated for it.

 

[klwn]

Hamill had nothing to do with those scenes though.
What we know for sure is that he hated the way his character was treated in the script, and the only reason he backtracked was out of respect, due to the movie still being months away. At some point, we will get his real opinion about all this. Would love to get George's and JJ's as well.

 

[Spazz]

I wonder if people complaining about the SJW heavy TLJ realize that their childhood hero Hamill hates with a passion right wingers and was probably a driving force himself to load the movie up with that stuff.

As he gets older he can barely contain himself anymore about his hatred towards them.

I dislike SJW stuff, and I'm not remotely right wing. There are people on both ends of the ideological spectrum who dislike SJW identity politics. Socialists and Anarchists are as negative about the nonsense being churned out of academia (via Sociology and Gender studies) as right wing libertarians. It's always been that way.

Anarchists like Emma Goldman were critical of 1st wave Feminism, George Orwell was critical of 2nd wave feminism and socialist labor movements of his day, Noam Chomsky is critical of the Post Modernist left... It's not as simple as "for us or against us".

Edit: A great example of this, would be Karl Marx's criticism of a faction of the left, that he regarded as "petite" or "petty" bourgiousie. If he were alive today, he'd describe SJW's the same way, for the same reasons. I'm not left or right wing, so much as anti-political. It's a whole other animal... but you get the idea.

 

[klwn]

One of the proofs it's not done right is simply that a lot of girls on YT are posting rants about hating the movie, the Rose stuff, all the women being amazing and all the men having major flaws, etc...

It's not having a message that's the issue, it's the way they include it into the script.
They completely missed the sweet spot. They talk about balance in the Force but there is no balance in this movie.
Snoke is a monster, Luke is a coward almost until the very end (and still doesn't fight), DJ is a traitor, Finn's story arc is pure non-sense, Kylo is an insufferable bitchy emo kid, Poe has zero wisdom and only cares about killing the enemy, Hux... Well, he's Hux.

 

[SNIKT1950]

The apologists keep looking for ways to defend this garbage. Fanboyism, unfulfilled speculation, anti-Right politics....

The movie just sucks. That's why everyone (left, right, male, female, old, young) hates it. Only the Disney-owned press is defending this crap.

I'm still not convinced some posters on here liked it. I think we have alotta people here that just aren't ready to give up on SW & hating this movie is the first step in the breakup so they're literally talking themselves into liking it.

 

[Spazz]

To be fair, if the director wants to depict a time in history where women lead because men are almost unanimously weak, that's entirely up to him. Complaining about that as "wrong" or "unjust", is no different than what SJW's do. You can't have it both ways. If one finds SJW's annoying, they should refrain from sounding exactly like them.

My take: When people applaud a movie for its diversity, even going so far as to describe an individual as diverse (which sounds as if they have multiple personalities), I don't care. But when people defend the quality of a film for its "diverse" cast, they're making an empirically false statement. Is it true that Hollywood is prejudiced? Yes, it is more difficult for an Asian woman to get a role than a non-Asian woman. Absolutely. Telling me that a movie is great because the cast is diverse, is like telling me that a bowl of ice cream will taste amazing specifically because there are 31 flavors in it. If that's your sales pitch, it's not convincing.

As for the subtext of TLJ, there did seem to be a radical feminist subtext, particularly involving Poe's mutiny and desire to barrel forward violently as opposed to taking a more "compassionate" approach to... war. And yes, the men in this film were consistently and inexplicably weak, but hey, I'm not righteously indignant about it. I just find it annoying. You could argue that this is Johnson's way of saying, "Ha! See! How does it feel when men are portrayed as weak?!" To which I'd reply, "It feels like you're portraying a radical feminist's utopia. In space." That irony is lost on Johnson.

 

[jkno]

Re: The Last Jedi

I've come to the conclusion that people make silly assumptions when they see someone doesn't like what they do.

 

[klwn]

Yeah, with that logic, making a bad movie is also entirely up to the director.
We all know that's not the case though, Kathleen Kennedy has a hand in all this, and a clear agenda, that's obvious to even a guy like me who would be considered a socialist in the US.

People are pointing out these issues because the movie is just bad overall with a ridiculous amount of stupid choices. If it were great, I wouldn't care whatsoever about the depiction of women and men. I played Star Wars: The Old Republic for a couple years and all my characters were women and monumentally badass so I am more than open to seeing the equivalent in a movie.

Key word: balance, and if there is no balance in that respect, at least make an incredible movie so that it's less noticeable. But Rian Johnson failed with all of this.

 

[Ropen]

Disney does have another marker.....toys and merchandise sales.


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Honestly SW merchandise has not been selling well as compared to TFA, the market is over saturated by them now


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[pixletwin]

The apologists keep looking for ways to defend this garbage. Fanboyism, unfulfilled speculation, anti-Right politics....

The movie just sucks. That's why everyone (left, right, male, female, old, young) hates it. Only the Disney-owned press is defending this crap.

I'm still not convinced some posters on here liked it. I think we have alotta people here that just aren't ready to give up on SW & hating this movie is the first step in the breakup so they're literally talking themselves into liking it.

That is as stupid as the Russian hackers conspiracy. I enjoyed it. I had fun. Others didn't. That is fine. This movie had definite problems (clearly, from the backlash it is experiencing). I wasn't looking to recapture some childhood ideal. I wasn't looking for an amazing Shakespearean drama to unfold. I wasn't looking for the answers to the meaning of life. And (specifically for you) I wasn't looking for validation for a bunch of half-cooked fan theories.

It was fun. I had fun. My kids had fun. I don't need to justify that opinion as right or wrong to anyone. There is no right or wrong when dealing with matters of opinion. That is kind of the point.

 

[Spazz]

Yeah, with that logic, making a bad movie is also entirely up to the director.
We all know that's not the case though, Kathleen Kennedy has a hand in all this, and a clear agenda, that's obvious to even a guy like me who would be considered a socialist in the US.

People are pointing out these issues because the movie is just bad overall with a ridiculous amount of stupid choices. If it were great, I wouldn't care whatsoever about the depiction of women and men. I played Star Wars: The Old Republic for a couple years and all my characters were women and monumentally badass so I am more than open to seeing the equivalent in a movie.

Key word: balance, and if there is no balance in that respect, at least make an incredible movie so that it's less noticeable. But Rian Johnson failed with all of this.

Absolutely, Kathleen Kennedy is also to blame. As I wrote in an earlier post, even as someone who feels strongly about idealism and propaganda, that wasn't even on my list of complaints about this movie. Compared to all of the blatant problems with pacing, dialogue, character, design, internal logic, narrative structure... It really is just a horrible movie. If Kathleen Kennedy liked the film so much that she granted Johnson a trilogy, we know this is the direction the franchise is heading.

 

[xipotec]

The apologists keep looking for ways to defend this garbage. Fanboyism, unfulfilled speculation, anti-Right politics....

The movie just sucks. That's why everyone (left, right, male, female, old, young) hates it. Only the Disney-owned press is defending this crap.

I'm still not convinced some posters on here liked it. I think we have alotta people here that just aren't ready to give up on SW & hating this movie is the first step in the breakup so they're literally talking themselves into liking it.

People like different stuff than you you know......

People like blood pudding....

I think Suicide Squad was awful....but we have a lot of member who really like it.....

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[SNIKT1950]

That is as stupid as the Russian hackers conspiracy. I enjoyed it. I had fun. I wasn't looking to recapture some childhood ideal. I wasn't looking for an amazing Shakespearean drama to unfold. I wasn't looking for the answers to the meaning of life. And (specifically for you) I wasn't looking for validation for a bunch of half-cooked fan theories.

It was fun. I had fun. My kids had fun. I don't need to justify that opinion as right or wrong to anyone. There is no right or wrong opinion. That is kind of the point.

In summary, you settled for what they served you whereas most people are sending the food back.

And stop already with the fan-theory bollocks. I could care less that the movie doesn't match the rumored stories I liked. The problem with this movie is that it's a PIECE OF ****. And the masses are clearly not settling for said ****.

 

[DarkChocobi]

One of the proofs it's not done right is simply that a lot of girls on YT are posting rants about hating the movie, the Rose stuff, all the women being amazing and all the men having major flaws, etc...

It's not having a message that's the issue, it's the way they include it into the script.
They completely missed the sweet spot. They talk about balance in the Force but there is no balance in this movie.
Snoke is a monster, Luke is a coward almost until the very end (and still doesn't fight), DJ is a traitor, Finn's story arc is pure non-sense, Kylo is an insufferable bitchy emo kid, Poe has zero wisdom and only cares about killing the enemy, Hux... Well, he's Hux.

 

[YoNoSe]

You can’t like it!

 

[jye4ever]

In summary, you settled for what they served you whereas most people are sending the food back.

And stop already with the fan-theory bollocks. I could care less that the movie doesn't match the rumored stories I liked. The problem with this movie is that it's a PIECE OF ****. And the masses are clearly not settling for said ****.

You can’t like it!