Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[Rainpaulo]

Is there any way JJ can rescue this and give Luke the send off he deserves

 

[Captain Clown]

Now people like JJ.

 

[klwn]

I am going to send him a care package with a little note "Hi JJ! Please save Luke (and Snoke). Thank you."

 

[noface]

That's not true. I give some of you a hard time for being millennials but there's been quite a few times that you young ones have typed something that made me go "nice, good point." So don't fall in line with the "mass hysteria crowd" on this one, Clown.

Luke, Rey, and Kylo all grew in the film, as did Poe.

And not giving Snoke a backstory is not lazy in a space opera that deals largely in archetypes. These films *can* get away with characters who are simply "evil ***hole in a chair" (ROTJ Emperor/Snoke), "evil ***hole on a slab" (Jabba), "evil ***hole with a gun" (ESB/ROTJ Fett), etc. Especially when they are anchored by more nuanced and layered villains like OT Vader and ST Kylo.

Remember in ESB Fett didn't even have a name! Nor did Palpatine in ROTJ.

I agree. [emoji4] I guess if they had killed Snoke in the 9th episode, people wouldve had a problem with that for it being to similar to ROTJ. Hope to watch it many more times once it comes out on blu ray.

I still agree with others that Luke thinking of killing Kylo was something Luke we came to know as wouldnt do.

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[Futurion]

Anyway, why Johnson hate JJ so much? Nobody would leave a trilogy in this state for a friend.

 

[Ehollywood]

 

[Asta]

 

[Jme_c]

Now people like JJ.

I'm sorry but the hate for JJ was unwarranted! He did a brilliant job with The Force Awakens of re-establishing the franchise, making it likeable again, whilst introducing these new characters, setting up intriguing plot points going forward and ending his movie on a fantastic cliff hanger.

Rian Johnson came along and literally destroyed all of that! There was lot's that could have been done with Snoke to make him different to the Emperor without killing him off! It was just lazy and uncreative writing.

Same goes for Luke, he could have had a deeper purpose for being on that island, not that crap RJ came up with. He destroyed Luke's character, all of his beliefs and what a Jedi stands for.

 

[klwn]

I'm sorry but the hate for JJ was unwarranted! He did a brilliant job with The Force Awakens of re-establishing the franchise, making it likeable again, whilst introducing these new characters, setting up intriguing plot points going forward and ending his movie on a fantastic cliff hanger.

Rian Johnson came along and literally destroyed all of that! There was lot's that could have been done with Snoke to make him different to the Emperor without killing him off! It was just lazy and uncreative writing.

Same goes for Luke, he could have had a deeper purpose for being on that island, not that crap RJ came up with. He destroyed Luke's character, all of his beliefs and what a Jedi stands for.

Lazy and disrespectful writing. So many possible directions that could have been amazing, down the drain.

 

[mattinglymint23]

I went back to shattered empire comic yesterday and remembered another reason I’m disappointed. One of the few “new canon” appearances of post rotj Luke looked promising.

Just so disappointing.


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[Rainpaulo]

Now people like JJ.

I never disliked him....I loved force awakens.
I would have like more of the original cast to interact that would have been perfect. Jj done his bit...Rian ruined the damn thing. Does he have a issue with jj...I'm so fed up that we got this movie after a 2 year wait.

 

[Jme_c]

Do you know one of the biggest things that bugged me that no one seems to be mentioning? Where the F was Luke's Green Lightsaber?
Why did his force projection have the old blue one? It makes no sense at all to me.

I am hoping Rey returns to Ahcto in 9 and finds his Green Lightsaber. But most probably she will construct her own new one and Luke's Green one will never be mentioned again!

 

[klwn]

Do you know one of the biggest things that bugged me that no one seems to be mentioning? Where the F was Luke's Green Lightsaber?
Why did his force projection have the old blue one? It makes no sense at all to me.

I am hoping Rey returns to Ahcto in 9 and finds his Green Lightsaber. But most probably she will construct her own new one and Luke's Green one will never be mentioned again!

Oh trust me, I mentioned it, but at the rate this thread progresses...

That was easily one of the biggest letdowns imo. Directly linked of course with the fact that we didn't get an actual fight scene with Luke.
When they decided to show it for the first time in a flashback, I thought that was REALLY weird but still had hope that we would see it in use later on.

Worst case scenario, if they wanted to be original and play a bit with the new canon, it should have been white like Ahsoka's due to Luke's situation with the Force.

And yeah I really wondered wtf was going on when I saw Anakin's on hist belt during the Force projection part.

For me that was one of the ultimate proofs that Rian Johnson simply doesn't get Star Wars.

 

[Futurion]

Answer to anything - because Johnson doesn’t give a ****.


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[Bravomite]

Do you know one of the biggest things that bugged me that no one seems to be mentioning? Where the F was Luke's Green Lightsaber?
Why did his force projection have the old blue one? It makes no sense at all to me.

I am hoping Rey returns to Ahcto in 9 and finds his Green Lightsaber. But most probably she will construct her own new one and Luke's Green one will never be mentioned again!

As much as I wanted to see Luke wield the lightsaber that he actually constructed himself, within the context of this ugly story it makes sense for him not to use it. The green lightsaber is a physical representation of his greatest failure ... I can see Luke shunning it much like his cutting himself off from the force. He doesn't use it in the vision with Kylo for that reason, he is not there to murder Kylo like he intended all those years before. He is also triggering Kylo by wielding the lightsaber of Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader that Kylo desires so badly. Luke igniting lightsaber but refusing to strike at Ben with it demonstrates to Kylo that he doesn't understand the legacy of Anakin and will never be his true heir.

I'm probably being too kind to Rian though and he likely just messed it up or didn't care lol

 

[Jme_c]

Oh trust me, I mentioned it, but at the rate this thread progresses...

That was easily one of the biggest letdowns imo. Directly linked of course with the fact that we didn't get an actual fight scene with Luke.
When they decided to show it for the first time in a flashback, I thought that was REALLY weird but still had hope that we would see it in use later on.

Worst case scenario, if they wanted to be original and play a bit with the new canon, it should have been white like Ahsoka's due to Luke's situation with the Force.

And yeah I really wondered wtf was going on when I saw Anakin's on hist belt during the Force projection part.

For me that was one of the ultimate proofs that Rian Johnson simply doesn't get Star Wars.

Don't get me started on the whole new canon ******** with all kyber crystals being clear in colour and the wielders connection to the force that establishes the hue! Dumbest concept ever!

 

[klwn]

Let's say the movie happens roughly the way it happened until Rey boards Snoke's ship.

Rey is in the throne room, being interrogated and tortured.
Out of nowhere, Luke boards the ship with the X-Wing that was in the water, makes his way through countless Stormtroopers without touching his lightsaber, they fly against the walls as a nod to Yoda and Vader.

Luke gets to the throne room, Force pushes Kylo, making him fly across the room next to Snoke's throne. Luke Force pulls Anakin's lightsaber that's sitting next to Snoke and gives it to Rey. Takes out his own lightsaber.

The both of them are attacked by the guards and Kylo. The guards die one by one just like in the actual movie, but obviously being killed by Luke and Rey.

Snoke starts to get involved, targeting Luke with massive displays of power. Force Unleashed type stuff (but a bit more reasonable).
Kylo and Rey are fighting but Kylo is starting to best Rey.
She's about to get killed. Luke intervenes, fences off Kylo and Snoke at the same time using Force powers and his lightsaber. Screams at Rey to get away, eventually Force pushes her into the elevator.

Luke can not handle both Snoke and Kylo at the same time, and is eventually pierced by Kylo's blade. Huge emotional scene, the conflict on Kylo's face, despair and tears on Luke's face. A tired smirk on Snoke's who is breathing heavily. Luke is dead, he vanishes. Rey sees this but has no choice but to get away, crying.

The battle is over but Snoke used a lot of energy, he slowly tries to go back to his throne to rest and savor the victory. Kylo seizes the opportunity. No more Snoke.

Then the rest of the movie happens the way it did on Crait, except instead of the Force projection, it's Finn actually dying like an incredible hero that buys the rest of the Resistance enough time. He isn't saved by Rose.

You're welcome Disney, I just saved most of your movie (Canto Bight is still awful). Too late though.

 

[Spazz]

I've been reading a lot of media spin, attempting to mitigate the backlash toward The Last Jedi. From what I've read, the media would lead us to believe people dislike TLJ because:

1. The film took too many risks, deviating from convention in a way that traditionalists just can't handle,
2. Right wing Brietbart trolls are railing against the film's "diverse" cast,
3. 4Chan bots are somehow creating thousands of fake accounts to downvote the film on IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes
4. People didn't like the comedic relief, created to alleviate the "dark" undertones within the film
5. Mark Hamill "gave fans permission" to hate the depiction of Luke Skywalker, by complaining about it himself

In reality, the actual problems are:

1. The film was boring, too long, with horribly written dialogue and subplots that meandered too far from the main conflict,
2. The "risks" that the film took broke the logic of the franchise, so that aspects of the previous films no longer make sense,
3. Several of the scenes were visually off-putting, and lacked cohesion with the tone of the franchise (Space Vegas, Yoda, The Milked Space-Cow)
4. There were plot holes everywhere, breaking the internal logic of the film itself.
5. The portrayal of Luke as an aged Jedi master was bizzare, with an inadequate explanation accounting for the character departure

None of these objections involve conservatism, whether it's a reluctance to break from tradition or some sort of ideologically driven gripe with the ethnicity or gender of the cast members. The only reason why either of those issue arise, is in reacting to the bombardment of nonsense from media and apologists defending this train wreck of a film.

Most people wanted innovation with this new film, myself included. The Force Awakens wasn't a horrible film, but it was mediocre because it rehashed too much of ANH. It was safe. Sure, TLJ took risks, but when you do that, you risk failure. Unfortunately, these risks lead to failure. Taking a chance isn't an accomplishment, in and of itself.

Every time I hear someone say, "You complain when the new trilogy doesn't take risks, THEN you complain when the new trilogy DOES take risks", I'm reminded that people are being taught there's no such thing as failure. Everyone gets a gold star, just for showing up. All you need is hope, and everything will be great. This movie is the product of that mentality. It's a Space Cow, being milked at you.

 

[Vitron5]

Great post Spazz.

 

[TaliBane]

I've been reading a lot of media spin, attempting to mitigate the backlash toward The Last Jedi. From what I've read, the media would lead us to believe people dislike TLJ because:

1. The film took too many risks, deviating from convention in a way that traditionalists just can't handle,
2. Right wing Brietbart trolls are railing against the film's "diverse" cast,
3. 4Chan bots are somehow creating thousands of fake accounts to downvote the film on IMDB and Rotten Tomatoes
4. People didn't like the comedic relief, created to alleviate the "dark" undertones within the film
5. Mark Hamill "gave fans permission" to hate the depiction of Luke Skywalker, by complaining about it himself

In reality, the actual problems are:

1. The film was boring, too long, with horribly written dialogue and subplots that meandered too far from the main conflict,
2. The "risks" that the film took broke the logic of the franchise, so that aspects of the previous films no longer make sense,
3. Several of the scenes were visually off-putting, and lacked cohesion with the tone of the franchise (Space Vegas, Yoda, The Milked Space-Cow)
4. There were plot holes everywhere, breaking the internal logic of the film itself.
5. The portrayal of Luke as an aged Jedi master was bizzare, with an inadequate explanation accounting for the character departure

None of these objections involve conservatism, whether it's a reluctance to break from tradition or some sort of ideologically driven gripe with the ethnicity or gender of the cast members. The only reason why either of those issue arise, is in reacting to the bombardment of nonsense from media and apologists defending this train wreck of a film.

Most people wanted innovation with this new film, myself included. The Force Awakens wasn't a horrible film, but it was mediocre because it rehashed too much of ANH. It was safe. Sure, TLJ took risks, but when you do that, you risk failure. Unfortunately, these risks lead to failure. Taking a chance isn't an accomplishment, in and of itself.

Every time I hear someone say, "You complain when the new trilogy doesn't take risks, THEN you complain when the new trilogy DOES take risks", I'm reminded that people are being taught there's no such thing as failure. Everyone gets a gold star, just for showing up. All you need is hope, and everything will be great. This movie is the product of that mentality. It's a Space Cow, being milked at you.

What's funny is how this one seems to be starkly falling into the "love it" or "hate it" camps - TFA didn't seem that way.

TFA was solid but most definitely mediocre (and seems even more so to me now than it did two years ago,) but the thing it had going for it was the sour taste of the PT and the "long-awaited return of SW" tsunami of goodwill, which TLJ didn't. But with the darkening reception to TLJ, TFA's stock just went through the roof, as did JJ's.

It's ironic - quite a talented "real filmmaker" like Johnson strikes out with SW, while the return of a mediocre shaper of intellectual property like JJ emerges as the savior of SW. Maybe it really just comes down to a love of the material, and JJ beat Johnson on that front.