Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

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I genuinely used to think that the whole paid off critics thing was complete non-sense. Really.

Then I listened to Kristian Harloff's and Ken Napzok's review from the Collider YouTube channel. Two of the biggest Star Wars fans I "know", huge lore nerds who read and know everything about canon and even a big part of Legends.
First thing I noticed is, they didn't look happy whatsoever. If you are a huge fan and just saw a Star Wars movie you loved, there is no way you can hide the happiness.
But then they started really talking about the movie, and it felt like they were trying to criticize certain aspects, but not too much, while hiding major disappointments (Luke, Snoke...). And then, they gave it a 9/10.

Now, I'm really not so sure anymore. That's really disturbing. Are they afraid they won't be invited to the premieres anymore?

no dog in this fight
but i think your on to something here ,
felt the same way about the overly critical and negative attitude some reviewers and bloggers display towards the product of other film companys:dunno

its not enough that i win but everyone else has to fail sort of thing
 
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Done of the other themes people are banging on about bothered me. Like I really don't get the hate for the milking off the cow scene, I thought that quite nicely showed how simple, mundane and routine Luke's life was on the islands.

Because, the mythic heroic figure isn't supposed to do laundry or by groceries or slap makeup on or clean a bathroom or do taxes or get traffic tickets:cool:. It's a rude reminder of real life and actually played for laughs in *heroic* movies. It's inherently WRONG for heroes to do ordinary things like getting the oil changed on a car. The only time you see that kind of stuff in a heroic movie is when it's the trope e.g. a hero will rise from a *lowly* background like Broom Boy.

Either that or it's gotta be a rich spoiled kid who learns humility. Never seems to be the middle class kid who's life is pretty OK-ish, actually. (Well, except for Sam in Transformers but he had the "special lineage"). We sure didn't see Obi-wan grubbing cactus roots out in the deserts for food (in his spotlessly clean robes.):monkey3

I don't have a problem with Luke having a moment of thinking about killing his nephew. Because, he tells Rey he's seen her kind of raw power once before etc. IMO the implication to me (when I think about it) is that Kylo (which is kind of backed up by Snoke's comments) is pretty extraordinary.

But Luke apparently "wasn't scared by it". Not at first. The he sees the darkness in Kylo one day. Luke reacts to something terrible (raw power combined with darkness). And Kylo must have been pretty far gone anyway (as Luke DID see). It's not like Kylo's reaction is JUST to lash out at Luke. He kills other students and destroys the whole place. Later Kylo has a whole village killed. He's indifferent to entire planets being destroyed.

Obe-wan was willing to kill Anakin, in the end. But Luke doesn't spend years stalking his nephew. He seeks solitude to wrestle with an impossible problem. Luke couldn't kill his own father; how is he supposed to kill his nephew? I think Kylo is so powerful only he can save himself - or Rey maybe can stop him/save him. But IMO Luke's behavior is reasonable and he doesn't follow through.

Maybe it would have been better if there had been a few frames showing what Luke was seeing in Kylo - I dunno - some sort of swirling darkness/destroyed planets/bodies etc. Something monstrous. Because the Force can show visions of the future even it it's "always in motion".

But we did get a camel race tho.:monkey3
 
no dog in this fight
but i think your on to something here ,
felt the same way about the overly critical and negative attitude some reviewers and bloggers display towards the product of other film companys:dunno

Look up how many companies have affliations with Disney...tons..
 
NEW FAN THEORY:
Luke did not die from Jedi projecting fatigue. He knew Rey was evil incarnate so he walked to the beach and drank poisonous blue milk to avoid fulfilling her training.

It's the Rian Johnson way.
 
If in 2 years Abrams blatantly retcons most of this movie, I see a genocide of crows happening in this thread.

Of course Luke didn't really die. Of course Rey's parents are important. Of course Snoke came back from the dead. Of course Phasma survived the explosion. Of course Rose died when she saved Finn...

2019 is gonna be epic.
 
One of the funniest things I find about all this criticism though, is that everyone wanted Rey to be "no one". Now that she is indeed 2no one" everyone is bitching and moaning about it!

I have always stuck my ground on that front that she needed to be a Skywalker or a Solo as this is essentially the Skywalker Saga!
The fact that she is that powerful and just comes from two non force sensitive junky parents to me is dumb! Kylo is that powerful as he has the Skywalker blood. The Skywalker blood is so powerful as Anakin was conceived through the force. To make Rey as powerful completely undermines the Skywalker bloodline and powerful Jedi such as Yoda who's origins and species remain a mystery.

The fact Rey is no one has made me care so much less about her now, like I just don't care! And why does she need to be no one when that random stable boy is no one as will most of the new Jedi that Rey inevitably trains.

Even if they didn't want to give her a famous name I would prefer that she was another force creation.
 
everyone wanted Rey to be "no one". Now that she is indeed 2no one" everyone is bitching and moaning about it!

Who wanted that?

I wanted her to be of Skywalker blood... if not Luke's kid entirely.


I think JJ will expose Kylo as a liar. I think he'll play against the fact that everyone thought Vader was lying when he said "I am your father" but he wasn't. This time everyone assumes Kylo is telling the truth so he'll be a liar. Or perhaps he really doesn't know. It actually would be a good audience fake out.
 
and there's your insight. When there's profit to be made (and that comes in many forms including gaining access to premiers so you can feed your youtube channel) you should question everything. That's why I've discounted critic's reviews for years and focused on fan feedback.

Fan/general audience is something I'd pay attention to having been stung by critic opinion (e.g., a film that is **** but the critics love it).

But I'm baffled by what it seems a lot of fans want, based on comments. E.g., I went into this movie with stuff in my head that I thought was gonna happen. Like Luke would take the light saber and eventually reluctantly train Rey. Stuff like that was SUPPOSED to happen. Like, Snoke would torture Rey and for whatever reason - like Kylo "gets" that Snoke is going to destroy the only being he could ever really connect to - he intervenes. Or maybe Rey would go to the Dark Side and Kylo would see a reflection of himself and be horrified and cut her loose. Something like that.

But from what I read, it almost sounds like people want exactly the same movie they've always had. Another Death Star (this one takes up half the universe and is fueled by black hole energy and can be invisible!) Luke will whip Kylo's butt and Snoke will step in to save Kylo and Kylo will re-emerge in the next movie, scarred up even more with some Sith tattoos and a cool Sauron-type mask - e.g. pretty much the same movie we saw in TFA which was like A New Hope.

Instead we got a cranky emotionally tortured Luke who pitches his light saber, porgs and cow udders, a female hero who's a scrappy engineer, and a Kylo who DOESN'T kill his Mom and then blame Luke for turning his Mom against him. IMO parts of TLJ were awesome that way. Just seems like what's INEXCUSABLE is not giving us the same movie and characters we've had before. Even if, when I think about it, a lot of stuff IS similar to what I've seen before.:dunno
 
One of the funniest things I find about all this criticism though, is that everyone wanted Rey to be "no one". Now that she is indeed 2no one" everyone is bitching and moaning about it!

I have always stuck my ground on that front that she needed to be a Skywalker or a Solo as this is essentially the Skywalker Saga!
The fact that she is that powerful and just comes from two non force sensitive junky parents to me is dumb! Kylo is that powerful as he has the Skywalker blood. The Skywalker blood is so powerful as Anakin was conceived through the force. To make Rey as powerful completely undermines the Skywalker bloodline and powerful Jedi such as Yoda who's origins and species remain a mystery.

The fact Rey is no one has made me care so much less about her now, like I just don't care! And why does she need to be no one when that random stable boy is no one as will most of the new Jedi that Rey inevitably trains.

Even if they didn't want to give her a famous name I would prefer that she was another force creation.

I think it's totally fine. Sidious and Mace Windu were no one as well. For now we haven't seen her reach an incredible power level in the Force.
What we have seen though, is her getting way too good with way too little training. That's a major issue for sure.

If they establish that she is as powerful as Anakin or Luke for example (after training), then yeah, her being no one becomes a much bigger problem.

Btw Luke was just holding back when they "fought", you can tell he has completely given up on violence and confrontation at this point. I do believe that he could Force push her across the island if he wanted to. Just see how Snoke handled her, she was at his mercy, completely.
 
Who wanted that?

I wanted her to be of Skywalker blood... if not Luke's kid entirely.


I think JJ will expose Kylo as a liar. I think he'll play against the fact that everyone thought Vader was lying when he said "I am your father" but he wasn't. This time everyone assumes Kylo is telling the truth so he'll be a liar. Or perhaps he really doesn't know. It actually would be a good audience fake out.

4463B7A5-DB51-40E9-AF87-9FB4F425DBD1.jpg

Disney is just setting up SW to be a weekly show on their streaming service.
 
The fact Rey is no one has made me care so much less about her now, like I just don't care! And why does she need to be no one when that random stable boy is no one as will most of the new Jedi that Rey inevitably trains.

You're right, she's probably going to be teaching other kids now...:lol

It amazes me how porgly her character has been handled from the very beginning. Cesar from the Planet of the Ape film trilogy not only has more depth in every way possible, but his evolution to eventually become a hero, a leader, and ultimately a teacher, is a better Jedi story/hero's journey than anything in the Disney Wars.....a monkey is a better character and Jedi, unbelievable :lol
 
Who wanted that?

I wanted her to be of Skywalker blood... if not Luke's kid entirely.


I think JJ will expose Kylo as a liar. I think he'll play against the fact that everyone thought Vader was lying when he said "I am your father" but he wasn't. This time everyone assumes Kylo is telling the truth so he'll be a liar. Or perhaps he really doesn't know. It actually would be a good audience fake out.

What if that whole line is just the way it's said - e.g. a fake-out in the sense someone would say it indifferently (without even "looking" in Kylo's case). Because Kylo seems to have a touch of a snob in him e.g. "You. A scavenger."

Like Rey's parents OBVIOUSLY must be some desert trash that died a while ago, since they haven't been around.

Tho if that's true IMO the director should have re-done the scene so the voice inflection carries that, and not sound like it's a statement of fact. Although, it was
said that whoever Rey was waiting for wasn't coming back. Tho personally I'm good with Rey being nobody, really.
 
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