Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[crows]

The Porg was a consenting adult.

Porg was drunk therefore he was abused

 

[Adolfo]

Crystal Skull is a good parallel to this film in some ways. It was an enjoyable film for me. Misguided and cringe worthy in some ways, but I feel the reaction against it was much more extreme than it deserved, because it defied expectations. Work of art? Or even close to others in that franchise? No. But a fun movie overall. The reaction to the aliens was ridiculous to me, considering all the supernatural stuff in the other films.

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Kennedy if she gets her hands on Indy will kill him...new Indy will be felicity Jones...KOTCS > TLJ....Tribbles > TLJ

 

[JAWS]

Crystal Skull is a good parallel to this film in some ways. It was an enjoyable film for me. Misguided and cringe worthy in some ways, but I feel the reaction against it was much more extreme than it deserved, because it defied expectations. Work of art? Or even close to others in that franchise? No. But a fun movie overall. The reaction to the aliens was ridiculous to me, considering all the supernatural stuff in the other films.

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I actually somewhat enjoy the first 40 min of Crystal Skull... I don;t even mind the Aliens.. To me it all falls apart when Marion shows up... The Humor, the CGI, the lack of compelling action... Everything.. Its maybe the worst 50 min in film history .. Just awful stuff IMO.

 

[xipotec]

Agenda: destruction of the white male.
Sjw: people working for the destruction of the white male

Ookaaay....

So this kind of destruction?

Or is it metaphorical?

Are people worried about being rounded up and put into camps?

Losing the social status?

Losing economic status?

What’s at stake here?


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[Adolfo]

My itchy scrotum > Kennedy's titties and Johnson's Johnson

 

[Adolfo]

If I helped in anyway to lower the Disney TLJ revenues I will be at peace and it will be remembered when I die and vanish on a rock..so proud to be an emasculated deplorable man

I'll say it again

 

[Khev]

There are two issues you need to address. The first, is whether or not there is a radical feminist subtext within the film. People who advocate for feminism seem to think there is. For example:

Den of Geek: Toxic Masculinity in The Last Jedi
https://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/star-wars/269657/toxic-masculinity-is-the-true-villain-of-star-wars-the-last-jedi

Vanity Fair: The Last Jedi's Harsh Condemnation of "Mansplaining"
[video]https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2017/12/star-wars-last-jedi-laura-dern-admiral-holdo-listen-to-women[/video]

News.com: Feminists Praise Star Wars - The Last Jedi
[video]https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/movies/new-movies/feminists-praise-star-wars-the-last-jedi/news-story/df3b45914d651663b4d7881fb16a7ec4[/video]

New Statesman: The Last Jedi is the First Properly Feminist Star Wars:
[video]https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/film/2017/12/last-jedi-first-properly-feminist-star-wars[/video]

MTV: The Last Jedi is the most Feminist Star Wars Yet:
[video]https://www.mtv.com/news/3053737/star-wars-last-jedi-feminist/[/video]

Moneyish: Why The Last Jedi Proves that Star Wars future is female:
[video]https://moneyish.com/ish/why-the-last-jedi-proves-that-star-wars-future-is-female/[/video]

The Guardian: Yay for Feminism in the Last Jedi:
[video]https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/dec/18/star-wars-the-last-jedi-women-bechdel-test[/video]


Point being, if you didn't detect a feminist subtext in the movie, then that means this less-than-subtle movie went over your head. No one in their right mind would watch this movie, and say to themselves, "Nope. No radical feminism there."

Post as many links to pro-feminist groups trying to afix themselves to this movie as you want. This one from the writer and director himself trumps them all:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/entert...-meat-grinder-in-the-last-jedi-director-says/

Star Wars: Rian Johnson Promises 'The Last Jedi' Puts Characters Through the "Meat Grinder"
When I first read the script of The Force Awakens, I was like, 'I feel like I know these characters instantly.' And now we get to kind of put them through a meat grinder," Johnson said with a laugh.

The writer and director of the new Star Wars movie went on to explain his reasons for splitting the new main characters up for the bulk of the film.

"And for me, part of that meant that we had to make things as hard on each of them as possible: At least part of the movie, they don’t have their friends around," Johnson said. "They’ve got to figure things out for themselves. They’ve got to be faced with whatever the toughest thing each of them can be faced with, and they’re not going to have their buddy there next to them to get them out of it, necessarily."

I saw that headline before I watched the film and I saw his stated intentions playing out exactly like that on screen.

In TFA Poe got to solve problems by blowing them up and was given an extremely long leash by General Leia, even to the point of basically spear-heading the briefing on the Starkiller Base attack despite being just one of the pilots. In TLJ his suped up X-Wing was taken away and his leash was reduced to pretty much nothing.

In TFA Rey had a legendary war hero practically begging her to join him and go adventuring with him but in TLJ the legendary war hero wanted nothing to do with her. Also her inborn power did little to help her when it mattered the most (Snoke's throne room) and she had to basically be saved by the guy she beat up in the first film.

In TFA infiltrating Starkiller Base was pretty much a cake-walk for Finn and he got to have his way with Phasma because Han and Chewie did all the heavy lifting. In TLJ the "scoundrel" character that helped him infiltrate the base flat out betrayed him forcing him to face Phasma one on one.

And so on. So no, just because women's rights/issues are under a particularly bright spotlight at this specific moment in history it does NOT mean that I literally see it everywhere I look. Did anyone cry radical feminisim when Charlie put Maverick in his place? Did anyone cry "anti-white" when Matrix Reloaded introduced a Zion high command that was predominantly black? Did anyone whine that the original SW was anti-United Kingdom because all the bad guys save Vader had British accents compared to the do-gooder American Rebels? Not that I recall.

We currently live in a culture where outrage is an addiction. People must be offended by everything and read way too much into everything. And not joining such silliness does not mean that TLJ went over my head. I let films speak for themselves. I have no need to run to online editorials, actor tweets, or t-shirts worn by exectuive producers to tell me how to watch them. If I'm curious about underlying motives for any given scene I will *always* default to what the actual writer and/or director has to say about it. And so far I've not once read or seen any Rian Johnson interview where he said "yeah I was trying to promote radical feminism" or "I was asked to include a radical feminist agenda by Kathleen Kennedy" or whomever.

Now if you need the editorials of MTV blogs or whatever to tell you what a movie was about then that's fine. But I saw a film that sync'd perfectly with the directors own words that he simply wanted things to be hard for the characters and gave us an organic fulfillment of that very non-political agenda. And no amount of repetitive claims to the contrary are going to suddenly negate that. You're free to keep selling it an additional 6,000 times but I ain't buying it.

I will say this: The *all* female Resistance high command did raise an eyebrow, though no higher than when I saw the black majority command in Matrix Reloaded. Everything else that was supposedly ultra-feminist I just saw as a parallel to many other films that *no one* has ever accused of being feminist (Top Gun included.)

Now is Rian Johnson a firm believer that women should be equally heroic as men? Probably. Did some of his own biases naturally seep into the narrative the way it does for literally all writers? I don't see how they wouldn't have. But simply showcasing some of his own biases does not mean that he was ramming them down anyone's throat.

 

[Adolfo]

Post as many links to pro-feminist groups trying to afix themselves to this movie as you want. This one from the writer and director himself trumps them all:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/entert...-meat-grinder-in-the-last-jedi-director-says/



I saw that headline before I watched the film and I saw his stated intentions playing out exactly like that on screen.

In TFA Poe got to solve problems by blowing them up and was given an extremely long leash by General Leia, even to the point of basically spear-heading the briefing on the Starkiller Base attack despite being just one of the pilots. In TLJ his suped up X-Wing was taken away and his leash was reduced to pretty much nothing.

In TFA Rey had a legendary war hero practically begging her to join him and go adventuring with him but in TLJ the legendary war hero wanted nothing to do with her. Also her inborn power did little to help her when it mattered the most (Snoke's throne room) and she had to basically be saved by the guy she beat up in the first film.

In TFA infiltrating Starkiller Base was pretty much a cake-walk for Finn and he got to have his way with Phasma because Han and Chewie did all the heavy lifting. In TLJ the "scoundrel" character that helped him infiltrate the base flat out betrayed him forcing him to face Phasma one on one.

And so on. So no, just because women's rights/issues are under a particularly bright spotlight at this specific moment in history it does NOT mean that I literally see it everywhere I look. Did anyone cry radical feminisim when Charlie put Maverick in his place? Did anyone cry "anti-white" when Matrix Reloaded introduced a Zion high command that was predominantly black? Did anyone whine that the original SW was anti-United Kingdom because all the bad guys save Vader had British accents compared to the do-gooder American Rebels? Not that I recall.

We live in a culture where outrage is an addiction. People must be offended by everything and read way too much into everything. And not joining such silliness does not mean that TLJ went over my head. I let films speak for themselves. I have no need to run to online editorials, actor tweets, or t-shirts worn by exectuive producers to tell me how to watch them. If I'm curious about underlying motives for any given scene I will *always* default to what the actual writer and/or director has to say about it. And so far I've not once read or seen any Rian Johnson interview where he said "yeah I was trying to promote radical feminism" or "I was asked to include a radical feminist agenda by Kathleen Kennedy" or whomever.

Now if you need the editorials of MTV blogs or whatever to tell you what a movie was about then that's fine. But I saw a film that sync'd perfectly with the directors own words that he simply wanted things to be hard for the characters and gave us an organic fulfillment of that very non-political agenda. And no amount of repetitive claims to the contrary are going to suddenly negate that. You're free to keep selling it an additional 6,000 times but I ain't buying it.

I will say this: The *all* female Resistance high command did raise an eyebrow, though no higher than when I saw the black majority command in Matrix Reloaded. Everything else that was supposedly ultra-feminist I just saw as a parallel to many other films that *no one* has ever accused of being feminist (Top Gun included.)

Now is Rian Johnson a firm believer that women should be equally heroic as men? Probably. Did some of his own biases naturally seep into the narrative the way it does for literally all writers? I don't see how they wouldn't have. But simply showcasing some of his own biases does not mean that he was ramming them down anyone's throat.

I feel like I know the characters instantly?...he was wrong and changed them just for fun and Agenda....he keeps saying they gotta do this and that...they NEVER WERE ALLOWED TO...and just killed them off including all the past ideals...and of freaking course Kennedy's entourage survives...Holdo for ex dies a heroes death undermining Ackbar and all else and in effect an extension of Kennedy, Johnson, and Disney spitting on the past heroes.....so Rian's a freaking liar....this film truly tried to replace the old with the new blood...it hopes that we the viewer forget,never remember the first 6 films ever again...F all that made this chit flick

 

[crows]

 

[Spazz]

Post as many links to pro-feminist groups trying to afix themselves to this movie as you want. This one from the writer and director himself trumps them all:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/entert...-meat-grinder-in-the-last-jedi-director-says/



I saw that headline before I watched the film and I saw his stated intentions playing out exactly like that on screen.

In TFA Poe got to solve problems by blowing them up and was given an extremely long leash by General Leia, even to the point of basically spear-heading the briefing on the Starkiller Base attack despite being just one of the pilots. In TLJ his suped up X-Wing was taken away and his leash was reduced to pretty much nothing.

In TFA Rey had a legendary war hero practically begging her to join him and go adventuring with him but in TLJ the legendary war hero wanted nothing to do with her. Also her inborn power did little to help her when it mattered the most (Snoke's throne room) and she had to basically be saved by the guy she beat up in the first film.

In TFA infiltrating Starkiller Base was pretty much a cake-walk for Finn and he got to have his way with Phasma because Han and Chewie did all the heavy lifting. In TLJ the "scoundrel" character that helped him infiltrate the base flat out betrayed him forcing him to face Phasma one on one.

And so on. So no, just because women's rights/issues are under a particularly bright spotlight at this specific moment in history it does NOT mean that I literally see it everywhere I look. Did anyone cry radical feminisim when Charlie put Maverick in his place? Did anyone cry "anti-white" when Matrix Reloaded introduced a Zion high command that was predominantly black? Did anyone whine that the original SW was anti-United Kingdom because all the bad guys save Vader had British accents compared to the do-gooder American Rebels? Not that I recall.

We currently live in a culture where outrage is an addiction. People must be offended by everything and read way too much into everything. And not joining such silliness does not mean that TLJ went over my head. I let films speak for themselves. I have no need to run to online editorials, actor tweets, or t-shirts worn by exectuive producers to tell me how to watch them. If I'm curious about underlying motives for any given scene I will *always* default to what the actual writer and/or director has to say about it. And so far I've not once read or seen any Rian Johnson interview where he said "yeah I was trying to promote radical feminism" or "I was asked to include a radical feminist agenda by Kathleen Kennedy" or whomever.

Now if you need the editorials of MTV blogs or whatever to tell you what a movie was about then that's fine. But I saw a film that sync'd perfectly with the directors own words that he simply wanted things to be hard for the characters and gave us an organic fulfillment of that very non-political agenda. And no amount of repetitive claims to the contrary are going to suddenly negate that. You're free to keep selling it an additional 6,000 times but I ain't buying it.

I will say this: The *all* female Resistance high command did raise an eyebrow, though no higher than when I saw the black majority command in Matrix Reloaded. Everything else that was supposedly ultra-feminist I just saw as a parallel to many other films that *no one* has ever accused of being feminist (Top Gun included.)

Now is Rian Johnson a firm believer that women should be equally heroic as men? Probably. Did some of his own biases naturally seep into the narrative the way it does for literally all writers? I don't see how they wouldn't have. But simply showcasing some of his own biases does not mean that he was ramming them down anyone's throat.

The film wasn't subtle. If you couldn't detect radical feminism within the film, that's because you're not familiar with it. It's not about the presence of women, or the number of women in the film. It's about the way men and women interacted in the film, the consequences of the characters' actions, and the normative values that were explicitly stated by the characters.

If you don't see it, you don't see it. I won't try to convince you.

Variety sums it up,

"The film’s progressive ideology is already ticking off some calcified corners of the fandom—the kind of fans who dismissed Ridley’s heroic Rey as a too-powerful “Mary Sue” after the last film. But just because some Star Wars lovers are out of reach for the message this movie delivers, there is still hope for a new generation. Just like that kid at the end of The Last Jedi, holding his broom aloft and wearing the resistance jewelry left behind by Rose, an entire generation of young Star Wars watchers will remember the brave, smart, capable women of The Last Jedi—and the consequences of doubting their leadership".

Don't question authority, because feminism.

 

[crows]

Post as many links to pro-feminist groups trying to afix themselves to this movie as you want. This one from the writer and director himself trumps them all:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/entert...-meat-grinder-in-the-last-jedi-director-says/



I saw that headline before I watched the film and I saw his stated intentions playing out exactly like that on screen.

In TFA Poe got to solve problems by blowing them up and was given an extremely long leash by General Leia, even to the point of basically spear-heading the briefing on the Starkiller Base attack despite being just one of the pilots. In TLJ his suped up X-Wing was taken away and his leash was reduced to pretty much nothing.

In TFA Rey had a legendary war hero practically begging her to join him and go adventuring with him but in TLJ the legendary war hero wanted nothing to do with her. Also her inborn power did little to help her when it mattered the most (Snoke's throne room) and she had to basically be saved by the guy she beat up in the first film.

In TFA infiltrating Starkiller Base was pretty much a cake-walk for Finn and he got to have his way with Phasma because Han and Chewie did all the heavy lifting. In TLJ the "scoundrel" character that helped him infiltrate the base flat out betrayed him forcing him to face Phasma one on one.

And so on. So no, just because women's rights/issues are under a particularly bright spotlight at this specific moment in history it does NOT mean that I literally see it everywhere I look. Did anyone cry radical feminisim when Charlie put Maverick in his place? Did anyone cry "anti-white" when Matrix Reloaded introduced a Zion high command that was predominantly black? Did anyone whine that the original SW was anti-United Kingdom because all the bad guys save Vader had British accents compared to the do-gooder American Rebels? Not that I recall.

We currently live in a culture where outrage is an addiction. People must be offended by everything and read way too much into everything. And not joining such silliness does not mean that TLJ went over my head. I let films speak for themselves. I have no need to run to online editorials, actor tweets, or t-shirts worn by exectuive producers to tell me how to watch them. If I'm curious about underlying motives for any given scene I will *always* default to what the actual writer and/or director has to say about it. And so far I've not once read or seen any Rian Johnson interview where he said "yeah I was trying to promote radical feminism" or "I was asked to include a radical feminist agenda by Kathleen Kennedy" or whomever.

Now if you need the editorials of MTV blogs or whatever to tell you what a movie was about then that's fine. But I saw a film that sync'd perfectly with the directors own words that he simply wanted things to be hard for the characters and gave us an organic fulfillment of that very non-political agenda. And no amount of repetitive claims to the contrary are going to suddenly negate that. You're free to keep selling it an additional 6,000 times but I ain't buying it.

I will say this: The *all* female Resistance high command did raise an eyebrow, though no higher than when I saw the black majority command in Matrix Reloaded. Everything else that was supposedly ultra-feminist I just saw as a parallel to many other films that *no one* has ever accused of being feminist (Top Gun included.)

Now is Rian Johnson a firm believer that women should be equally heroic as men? Probably. Did some of his own biases naturally seep into the narrative the way it does for literally all writers? I don't see how they wouldn't have. But simply showcasing some of his own biases does not mean that he was ramming them down anyone's throat.

I hope his career is out through a meatgrinder lol

 

[Khev]

The film wasn't subtle. If you couldn't detect radical feminism within the film, that's because you're not familiar with it. It's not about the presence of women, or the number of women in the film. It's about the way men and women interacted in the film, the consequences of the characters' actions, and the normative values that were explicitly stated by the characters.

If you don't see it, you don't see it. I won't try to convince you.

I'm sorry if my view of the film differs from yours. You obviously have a deep need to be "right" as evidenced by an entire thread you created trying to push the notion that your opinions of the movie are objectively correct. But I stand by my posts and have no need to belabor the matter either.

 

[Adolfo]

I hope his career is out through a meatgrinder lol

Meat grinder meant cut p*n*s off and dispose of the bodies...I guess Disney definition means nice change or improvement or transition or some other PC corporate word

 

[Khev]

I hope his career is out through a meatgrinder lol

So you just want to toss Johnson into a meat grinder? What happened to you crows, you used to be someone I could trust.

 

[crows]

I'm sorry if my view of the film differs from yours. You obviously have a deep need to be "right" as evidenced by an entire thread you created trying to push the notion that your opinions of the movie are objectively correct. But I stand by my posts and have no need to belabor the matter either.

So you just want to toss Johnson into a meat grinder? What happened to you crows, you used to be someone I could trust.

How khev must feel like every time he comes to the thread

 

[Khev]

How khev must feel like every time he comes to the thread

Nah man I'm retired. I'm just another grunt like you.

 

[Spazz]

I'm sorry if my view of the film differs from yours. You obviously have a deep need to be "right" as evidenced by an entire thread you created trying to push the notion that your opinions of the movie are objectively correct. But I stand by my posts and have no need to belabor the matter either.

Of course I need to be right. That's what most people do, when making claims about things. Why would I argue that my opinions are false? If I thought that, they wouldn't be my opinions... Don't be sorry for having a different view than mine. You're being silly. If you can't handle disagreement, you probably shouldn't be on forums meant to critically analyze films. Read the rules of the forum. You were warned.

 

[Adolfo]

So you just want to toss Johnson into a meat grinder? What happened to you crows, you used to be someone I could trust.

You can never win Khev...For if you strike me down Difabio and Worgar will be more powerful than you can possibly imagine....

 

[Khev]

my opinions

Well hey at least you're finally recognizing that that's all they are.

 

[crows]

Nah man I'm retired. I'm just another grunt like you.

I didnt even notice lol. No wonder everyone is going at your posts so hard