Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[Adolfo]

The writing for TLJ for the Kennedy agenda was totally done at the expense of the Force,Jedi,old Star Wars itself..to have a great story and Kennedy's agenda become smooth is impossible imho....for Star Wars you can't have both....Her heavy handed agenda caused the bad writing on TLJ.

 

[subzro]

I think the point is that the way the entire situation plays out is just poorly written.

Let's see:
You've built up Poe to be the great, dashing hero of the first movie. He's the gung-ho hero. He's the Han Solo/Indiana Jones archetype. But now you suddenly want to deconstruct that image, so you have him make all the wrong decisions, disobey direct orders and start a mutiny. All within one unbelievable situation after the other (much faster ships for the Resistance, yet they never actually outdistance the FO Fleet?). But let's go back to why Holdo and Leia don't let him in on the BIG plan. Is there any reason they shouldn't? Their ACE commander, the man who has won them countless battles, the man who is a legend both among foes and peers? The man who for those very same reasons must be an inspiration for their own troops? It makes zero sense. From a story stand-point it makes no sense. That is what is bothersome: it's poorly written.
Oh, but it's alright because after he almost ****ed-up their plan, Holdo says she likes him that way. That is insanely baddly written. None of the OT or PT are so stupidly written.

So, no, you did not destroy the ongoing narrative.

Strong female leads are fantastic. Just write the damn movies in a way you can have a strong female lead without the story being idiotic.

have you seen the PT??? All anyone ever says is how badly written they are (among other things).

 

[crows]

That is so way, way, way off the truth it surely must be sarcasm, no? Are you seriously saying that there are very few female-lead movies, even major studio releases?

A tsunami of movies swirls in my head without even thinking deeply about it - from Disney live action tentpoles like Malieficent, Alice in Wonderland and Beauty & the Beast to major adult-oriented brands like Sex and the City and Fifty Shades of Grey, to action/thrillers like Lucy, The Shallows, Hanna and Girl with Dragon Tattoo to drama/thrillers like Gone Girl and Girl on the Train to major, big-budget action and/or sci-fi/horror franchises like Divergent, Resident Evil, Tomb Raider, Wonder Woman, Wanted, Twilight.

That's a tiny sampling. And I'm not even including more "traditonal" female-oriented stuff like bad girl films such as Bridesmaids, How to be Single, Pitch Perfect, Bad Moms and Girls Trip to romantic comedies (of which there are countless dozens of major titles or even franchises like Bridget Jones) to the huge multitude of female-driven/lead animated Disney movies from Frozen on back.

There are hundreds of romantic movies with female leads, and hundreds of soap opera shows and hundreds of LIFETIME drama movies with female leads. Hundreds, as well as hundreds of horror movies where the hero that defeats the monster is a woman.
But thats not good.

But what we dont have is female lead ACTION/SPY/ movies whose main demographic fanbase is MALE. Movies about wars or cops or superheroes or sci fi space fantasies.
The fact that these genres are male oriented and MALE lead is whats wrong with the industry. It is toxic for men to be the majority of the fanbase of these movies. We need to change this.

 

[abake]

I had issues with the story, but thought it was very well directed. In fact, that's one of the key elements that sets Last Jedi apart from the prequels. If the acting and direction were terrible, as they were in the prequels, then I wouldn't have enjoyed this film.

I've no issues with the acting, it was fine.
But acting isn't the only responsibility of a director: pacing, narrative structure, tone, editing, cinematography, etc... it should be the director's vision that carries all of those things and brings them together, and I feel there were plenty of problems in many of those areas. Not to mention the writing...

 

[Adolfo]

Disney Star Wars is just like the jellybean of the month club...The gift that keeps on giving...

 

[karamazov80]

I actually somewhat enjoy the first 40 min of Crystal Skull... I don;t even mind the Aliens.. To me it all falls apart when Marion shows up... The Humor, the CGI, the lack of compelling action... Everything.. Its maybe the worst 50 min in film history .. Just awful stuff IMO.

The part with the monkeys. . .was the worst. Makes the fridge scene seem like the pinnacle of achievement in film by comparison.

We currently live in a culture where outrage is an addiction. People must be offended by everything and read way too much into everything.

I don't want to judge other boardies here for their honest opinions. We all have the right to like or dislike a movie for whatever reason we want. But I do feel there is a common refrain going throughout lots of criticisms of film that is tied to an ideological sensitivity. In politics, on both sides, there certainly does seem to be hyper sensitivity to certain things. When people wear their ideology on their sleeve, they seem to go looking (possibly unconsciously) for examples that support or oppose it. And when that happens, I think evidence presents itself. An example of personal interest to me is this!

https://youtu.be/Hnjdq32u-MU?t=1h9m16s

But with the polarization of political debate, I think this has ramped up in recent years, where it no longer affects just people on the fringes. I've seen news articles about all of this, so it certainly goes beyond the discussion on this forum.

Having said all that, I think it is clear that there is a strong anti-capitalist theme in this film, and I think there are feminist overtones, as there are in lots of Hollywood films nowadays, though I don't know if it goes as far as some here say. For example, one bit of evidence is that the Jedi order, being a manifestation of traditional, masculine authority, was totally destroyed. But Rey actually snuck those books out on the Falcon from what I've read. And Poe is the leader of the resistance at the end of the film, as JYE points out (I suppose you can argue that he has been emasculated to get to that point, but it just seems to me that he's been taught to be less impetuous and to perceive and rank the full menu of options before making a choice).

Personally, I'm not sure the film has a singular, narrative vision of the sort being espoused by some, beyond the clear anti-capitalist and race horsing perspective. I'm not sure Rian could make up his mind on a lot of this, any more than he could with Kylo Ren's arc, given how the story keeps twisting and turning. Luke was tormented and couldn't figure out what to do with himself. Same with Rey. The Red Letter Media guys argue that almost no one progresses in this film, in that they all more or less end up where they started. With the exception of Poe.

 

[abake]

have you seen the PT??? All anyone ever says is how badly written they are (among other things).

I'm talking about the structure, the story, the reasons behind why characters act one way or the other, the logic within the story being told. Now, I know everybody hates the prequels, but I can't remember a case where the entire plot was so badly written. I'm not talking about dialogue here, I'm talking about the story; whether it makes sense. And TLJ does not make sense.

 

[karamazov80]

I've no issues with the acting, it was fine.
But acting isn't the only responsibility of a director: pacing, narrative structure, tone, editing, cinematography, etc... it should be the director's vision that carries all of those things and brings them together, and I feel there were plenty of problems in many of those areas. Not to mention the writing...

Editing is absolutely crucial to pacing, structure, and tone. Not sure how much of that Rian may have been involved in. Though I have to imagine that Kennedy was reigning him in significantly in some ways.

 

[abake]

The part with the monkeys. . .was the worst. Makes the fridge scene seem like the pinnacle of achievement in film by comparison.


I don't want to judge other boardies here for their honest opinions. We all have the right to like or dislike a movie for whatever reason we want. But I do feel there is a common refrain going throughout lots of criticisms of film that is tied to an ideological sensitivity. In politics, on both sides, there certainly does seem to be hyper sensitivity to certain things. When people wear their ideology on their sleeve, they seem to go looking (possibly unconsciously) for examples that support or oppose it. And when that happens, I think evidence presents itself. An example of personal interest to me is this!

https://youtu.be/Hnjdq32u-MU?t=1h9m16s

But with the polarization of political debate, I think this has ramped up in recent years, where it no longer affects just people on the fringes. I've seen news articles about all of this, so it certainly goes beyond the discussion on this forum.

Having said all that, I think it is clear that there is a strong anti-capitalist theme in this film, and I think there are feminist overtones, as there are in lots of Hollywood films nowadays, though I don't know if it goes as far as some here say. For example, one bit of evidence is that the Jedi order, being a manifestation of traditional, masculine authority, was totally destroyed. But Rey actually snuck those books out on the Falcon from what I've read. And Poe is the leader of the resistance at the end of the film, as JYE points out (I suppose you can argue that he has been emasculated to get to that point, but it just seems to me that he's been taught to be less impetuous and to perceive and rank the full menu of options before making a choice).

Personally, I'm not sure the film has a singular, narrative vision of the sort being espoused by some, beyond the clear anti-capitalist and race horsing perspective. I'm not sure Rian could make up his mind on a lot of this, any more than he could with Kylo Ren's arc, given how the story keeps twisting and turning. Luke was tormented and couldn't figure out what to do with himself. Same with Rey. The Red Letter Media guys argue that almost no one progresses in this film, in that they all more or less end up where they started. With the exception of Poe.

You know, I'm perfecly fine with the anti-capitalist, feminist, diverse narrative. I applaud it.
But it's just so poorly written... that's what pisses me off. Those are all very important topics to be handled so bluntly.

 

[Adolfo]

PT = Star Wars all of it....TLJ =Star Wars only for first 10 minutes...after that Star wars vanished slowly for 2hrs 20 min ...when Luke vanished, at the same time Star Wars died...DOA...to which no doctor can revive...Dead like Dillinger

 

[Adolfo]

You know, I'm perfecly fine with the anti-capitalist, feminist, diverse narrative. I applaud it.
But it's just so poorly written... that's what pisses me off. Those are all very important topics to be handled so bluntly.

No way you could have both sides work well for Star Wars..AGENDA overruled the Story at Star Wars expense...good writing you lessen the agenda...other films yes ok...not for Star wars

 

[Khev]

The part with the monkeys. . .was the worst. Makes the fridge scene seem like the pinnacle of achievement in film by comparison.


I don't want to judge other boardies here for their honest opinions. We all have the right to like or dislike a movie for whatever reason we want. But I do feel there is a common refrain going throughout lots of criticisms of film that is tied to an ideological sensitivity. In politics, on both sides, there certainly does seem to be hyper sensitivity to certain things. When people wear their ideology on their sleeve, they seem to go looking (possibly unconsciously) for examples that support or oppose it. And when that happens, I think evidence presents itself. An example of personal interest to me is this!

https://youtu.be/Hnjdq32u-MU?t=1h9m16s

But with the polarization of political debate, I think this has ramped up in recent years, where it no longer affects just people on the fringes. I've seen news articles about all of this, so it certainly goes beyond the discussion on this forum.

Having said all that, I think it is clear that there is a strong anti-capitalist theme in this film, and I think there are feminist overtones, as there are in lots of Hollywood films nowadays, though I don't know if it goes as far as some here say. For example, one bit of evidence is that the Jedi order, being a manifestation of traditional, masculine authority, was totally destroyed. But Rey actually snuck those books out on the Falcon from what I've read. And Poe is the leader of the resistance at the end of the film, as JYE points out (I suppose you can argue that he has been emasculated to get to that point, but it just seems to me that he's been taught to be less impetuous and to perceive and rank the full menu of options before making a choice).

Personally, I'm not sure the film has a singular, narrative vision of the sort being espoused by some, beyond the clear anti-capitalist and race horsing perspective. I'm not sure Rian could make up his mind on a lot of this, any more than he could with Kylo Ren's arc, given how the story keeps twisting and turning. Luke was tormented and couldn't figure out what to do with himself. Same with Rey. The Red Letter Media guys argue that almost no one progresses in this film, in that they all more or less end up where they started. With the exception of Poe.

If you define feminism as "equality among the sexes" which I believe is the term's accurate definition then I absolutely agree that it had feminist overtones. Of that I'd say there's no question. But calling TLJ "radical feminist propaganda" is a pretty ridiculous reach IMO.

And the film definitely seemed to take a stance against animal cruelty (which I'm pretty sure is universally opposed so not exactly a hot button per se) though I still didn't get an anti-capitalist message at all. I don't see how rich gamblers = capitalism nor do I equate unscrupulous weapons dealers with capitalism.

 

[Caped Baldy]

Which went more left, this thread or Rose when she crashed into Finn from the side?

I kid, I kid. This thread is pure gold.

 

[Adolfo]

If you define feminism as "equality among the sexes" which I believe is the term's accurate definition then I absolutely agree that it had feminist overtones. Of that I'd say there's no question. But calling TLJ "radical feminist propaganda" is a pretty ridiculous reach IMO.

And the film definitely seemed to take a stance against animal cruelty (which I'm pretty sure is universally opposed) though I still didn't get an anti-capitalist message at all. I don't see how rich gamblers = capitalism nor do I equate unscrupulous weapons dealers with capitalism.

Star Wars was the happy prized Caterpillar in our garden for 7 episodes...Disney/Kennedy put it in a Invasion of the Body snatchers Cocoon for last 2 years and on Dec 2017 she released from the cocoon Mothra with the head of Johnson on it destroying episode 8 consuming the force and Star Wars itself.....Eventually Johnson Mothra will poop out the force everywhere thus dividing it equally among the the galaxys children ...even the Pacific Rim Robots with Jet Jaguar cant save Star Wars from the Kennedy kaiju

 

[subzro]

How much did Carrie have to do with the feminist thing everyone is so concerned about? I'm sure she did some writing as that was her thing. Doubt we will ever know because they would never tarnish her name.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/carrie-fisher-was-feminist-force-be-reckoned-n700531

 

[Adolfo]

Even the Grinch when he'll steal everything from the town next year...The TLJ DVDs will be the only things he wont take from Khevs village

 

[Adolfo]

Even Burgermeister Meisterburger has put a ban on TLJ in Christmastown....Winter Warlock is even afraid of TLJ

 

[Lakhota]

Even the Grinch when he'll steal everything from the town next year...The TLJ DVDs will be the only things he wont take from Khevs village

If I was out of toilet paper I wouldn’t even wipe my ass with this script


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Adolfo]

Even King Moonracer wont allow TLJ to play in his Island of misfit toys....The Water pistol that shoots Jelly started to shoot titty milk after he left the theater

 

[Adolfo]

Just heard thru Yahoo that Santa will not be bringing TLJ on bluray/dvd next year due to its toxic nature...Banned from the North pole...It started when Rudolph went to the theater to see TLJ and his nose went out permanently