Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[Wor-Gar]

That's all false narrative silliness.

"Wow this false narrative is too whiny, even for me, I'm out."

Wow. My friend, using a Trumpism to defend your POV is below the belt, even for me.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Why do they all look unfutzed HT figures?

It's true. Its the weirdest pictures ever for red carpet shots.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Mind you, this guy hated TLJ opening day. He saw it 6 more times to convince himself and took to Twitter and snapchat to express his undying love for it.

Born-agains are the most dangerous.

 

[Khev]

We are also talking about two very different things.. I did not have to come up with fan theories on why Vader said that at the time.. It makes sense. No plot holes in Empire... I never took that to mean anything more then what it was in Empire... At the time of Empire's release We were talking about a possible father and son relationship here.. Hell for all we know he was just saying it to see if he could appeal to Luke's family instincts.. Or perhaps it would be after the emperor got him to turn then Vader would try and have him join him...

Honestly it does not matter. It had no effect on the story..

I tease you because you came up with why luke had to die (too powerful) just to become something that is even more powerful.

Fans of this film are making up theories to justify the plot points in this film... If ignored in 9 then it is just another moment in these new films that is ignored in the next film..



Either way. Plot holes in Empire (real or not) is not nearly as bad or hard to explain away as all the crap in these ST

No I was just addressing your claim that somehow our interpretations of TLJ will be ruined if Episode IX goes a different way. My point being that that wouldn't be anything new. And while I agree that ESB is basically flawless you're kidding yourself if you don't think it would be savagely picked apart if it were released for the first time today...

 

[DiFabio]

Sorry Fabs....

Padme’s death was the most pointless death in any SW.....

Lost the will to live....that was ********.

Anakin should have killed her in a fit of rage.....

I said since Padme. Hers is the weakest in this franchise, but Luke is right behind her.


Sure, Fett gotten eaten by a sand ***** and useless Phasma continues to die only to pop up as a joke, but those were atleast punchlines. Here, you have main characters that are just discarded like trash that die from "broken hearts" or power exhaustion.

"B-but memba the twin sunsets and John Williams music". No, Luke died like a *****, and, in reality, never left the island. Rey and Poe were the real heroes that allowed the group to escape, not Luke. The only reason the rebels sought out Luke in TFA and TLJ is because they thought he could help fight against the First Order and Snoke. He doesn't even do that and Snoke is already dead!

 

[JAWS]

They tried to make her cool flying around like Fett but it came off really really eye rolling bad.

But again just like every SW movie since ROTJ it has problems that don’t ruin the overall movie for me.

Had the films been better I would not hate her character so much..

OT have no characters that I hate.. I even like the Ewoks

I am actually surprised at how many people think Rose was amazing. Don't get me wrong, they seem like a minority, but still a lot.
I feel like a big part of the audience, including grown-*** adults, is looking for people they can relate to or are almost identical to them even when watching Star Wars.

I don't get that. My favorite characters are almost all Sith so basically the opposite of who I am

Rose's intro scene is one of the worst things I have seen in any Star Wars, and I really wish she hadn't stopped Finn. I didn't even want him to die, Finn is great despite how they ruined his arc in TLJ, but he should have been able to get his massive hero moment, and then you can make him survive if you want to whatever. But don't stop him from being awesome ffs.

Yes... One of my friends could not believe I hated her. But she stated that she could related to her.. I said she was wrong because if she was anything like Rose we would not be friends..

And I agree 100% about her introduction.. Ugh.. Awful.

No, you're right. Luke didn't accomplish anything.

Like Holdo, he doesn't even tell the rebels his plan. He just shows up and goes out into the field. In fact, it's so poorly written that they have Poe come out of nowehere and explain Luke's intention to everyone. Other than lazy writing, how did Poe even guess that?

It's not even a long distraction. I mean, Finn and Rose were miles away from the bunker right near the AT-ATs and mini Death Star battering ram canon (lol, gotta get those Death Stars in there) and Finn was able to drag Rose all the way back to the base, unharmed.

If Luke didn't show up, they all had plenty of time to follow the stupid Crystal foxes to the those rocks where Rey would have found them anyway.


Luke died for nothing. That's not even the most ridiculous part. He wasn't even really there and he STILL died! It's the most pathetic and poorly thought out death since Padme croaking on the hospital bed. Instead of medical pregnancy droids "boo baaaahing" around him, Luke had ****ing Porgs chirping. It's frustrating and ridiculous.

Like Han's, it's so unceremonious too. They're not even heroic deaths. They just sacrifice themselves for absolutely nothing other than to be disposed of so the torch can be passed off to the new characters.

Yep. Agree 100% especially with the Non Heroic, unceremonious deaths.. I am fine with killing off characters.. But the death of the main Villain (Vader) in the OT was much more eventful and emotional then the death of out hero's.

Some might say its because I wont give up the past.. If giving up the past means giving up in good story telling.. Well I don't want no part of that.

 

[Darkseed]

I don't even think I can be considered a "Star Wars fan" anymore. Out of like 9 movies, I only really love 2 to 3 of them. The fans irritate me, their theories between every release irritate me, the cosplayer s annoy me, the crappy merchandise irritates me, all these articles and YouTube videos about it irritate me. I just don't get it. I'll always have my love for it from the classic things that resonated with me when I was a kid, but a part of me wishes this whole "Star Wars phenomenon" died by the end of the 80s. It's an awful franchise.

It’s a mindset...cup half empty versus half full
mentality.

I agree with everything posted with the exception of the target. The fandom has kept this stale franchise alive thru Lucas and Disney for years. Kidos to them for their commitment but it’s in the state it is because people lap it up.

Until the product builds itself back to a level I want to invest, I’m simply along for the ride. Good or bad movie is subjective and it doesn’t really bother me. I don’t begrudge other from their enjoyment. I take what I find good in the stories and I’m glad others still find the enjoyment which is the difference. I’m not pissed by what I’m not getting because I’m not actively doing anything to change it. I find other causes more important than SW.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I said since Padme. Hers is the weakest in this franchise, but Luke is right behind her.

As far as central heroes go, who really had a great death?

Yoda rolled over in his blanket and just disappeared about as cheaply as you could in ROTJ.

Only Ben in ANH seems to have a death with a purpose AND a dramatic moment attached.

 

[JAWS]

No I was just addressing your claim that somehow our interpretations of TLJ will be ruined if Episode IX goes a different way. My point being that that wouldn't be anything new. And while I agree that ESB is basically flawless you're kidding yourself if you don't think it would be savagely picked apart if it were released for the first time today...

I don't think so.. People are use to cliff hangers and depressing endings.. They love it If the story is good.. Harry Potter and LOTR are proof of that..

Granted they don't have to wait for 3 years like they did with Empire.. But audiences back then did not know what to make of with Empires ending..


AS for the Episode 8 theories...
I am not saying that 9 will ruin TLJ and its theories. I am just saying it will ignore them.. And thus have some goofy plot holes..
One of the biggest complaints people are having with this film is that it did just that.

 

[DiFabio]

As far as central heroes go, who really had a great death?

Yoda rolled over in his blanket and just disappeared about as cheaply as you could in ROTJ.

Only Ben in ANH seems to have a death with a purpose AND a dramatic moment attached.

In the OT, not a lot of the heroes die. Ben's was good, Yoda's was meh, Vader's was great.

As far as the prequels go, Qui-Gon had a good one with the "train the boy" scene. The Order 66 is a pretty good dramatic one with all the Jedi getting betrayed. I don't like the characters in RO or how easily these Disney rebels sacrifice their lives, but Blind Man with a stick, his big friend and the K2 Droid had decent cinematic, emotional ones. The Jyn and Cassian nuclear embrace was touching as well.

Padme, Luke, and Han got shafted in comparison.

But the death of the main Villain (Vader) in the OT was much more eventful and emotional then the death of out hero's.

Man, you're just making the TLJ Luke stuff worse and worse.


Keep it up!

 

[klwn]

Let's not forget Mace Windu. Well, maybe it looked a bit funny due to the execution and "unlimited poweerrrr" but still, kinda cool being sent to the depths of Coruscant by Force lightning.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I forgot about Qui-Gon ... as I often do.

Mace was pretty silly looking. I don't count the Jedi as central heroes but I guess if you grew up watching the cartoons its kind of hard to see past their useless, expendable purpose in the films alone.

K2 had a great death. One of the best. So did Baze actually. Classic. In fact I'd say RO had an emotional impact with every hero's death. Even 'the pilot'.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Luke died for nothing. That's not even the most ridiculous part. He wasn't even really there and he STILL died! It's the most pathetic and poorly thought out death since Padme croaking on the hospital bed. Instead of medical pregnancy droids "boo baaaahing" around him, Luke had ****ing Porgs chirping. It's frustrating and ridiculous.
.

I think my biggest issue with Luke's ending or "arc", is that it really should have ended in ROTJ.

Unlike Logan's ending, Luke is just there to pass the torch to a new generation. He even said it, "The rebellion is reborn today. The war is just beginning, and I won't be the last Jedi..." cut to the young cast looking at him like they can somehow hear what he's saying and later broom boy to show the future of the franchise without Luke.

At least in the case of Logan, the story ended, and although it might be implied that there's a next generation, we won't see it. Logan's story is over and he saved the day one last time.

Luke on the other hand is kind of responsible for the death of his students and Kylo, and his story or arc ends with a passing of the torch, but not ending anything, he's just going to leave while the war is "just beginning." I don't like it

 

[Wor-Gar]

The Force will find a way.

 

[DiFabio]

I forgot about Qui-Gon ... as I often do.

Mace was pretty silly looking. I don't count the Jedi as central heroes but I guess if you grew up watching the cartoons its kind of hard to see past their useless, expendable purpose in the films alone.

K2 had a great death. One of the best. So did Baze actually. Classic. In fact I'd say RO had an emotional impact with every hero's death. Even 'the pilot'.

Yes.

And remember, most of these characters only have a single movie to their name. Everyone from Qui-Gon to Jyn are expendable.

But Han Solo and Luke Skywalker!? The had 4-5 films. That was not a proper send off to Luke. **** doesn't even make sense. After decompressing himself and sitting up straight relaxing, he just . . . dies? It's so stupid. That's not even taking account how lame the whole force projection **** is. How does it even work? I mean, doesn't Luke have to concentrate to project an image of himself across the galaxy? How come the Falcon dice in Kylo's hands disappear and vanish after Luke dies? Shouldn't those have faded away the moment he passed?

It's stupid.

I think my biggest issue with Luke's ending or "arc", is that it really should have ended in ROTJ.

Unlike Logan's ending, Luke is just there to pass the torch to a new generation. He even said it, "The rebellion is reborn today. The war is just beginning, and I won't be the last Jedi..." cut to the young cast looking at him like they can somehow hear what he's saying and later broom boy to show the future of the franchise without Luke.

At least in the case of Logan, the story ended, and although it might be implied that there's a next generation, we won't see it. Logan's story is over and he saved the day one last time.

Luke on the other hand is kind of responsible for the death of his students and Kylo, and his story or arc ends with a passing of the torch, but not ending anything, he's just going to leave while the war is "just beginning." I don't like it

Yup.


And the whole thing with Kylo and letting the First Order get powerful is his fault. He just gave up and let everyone else clean up after him.

I mean, I'm sure he'll show up as a force ghost or some contrived and cheesy BS, but they really squandered his character for one last outing. Could have done some great **** with him for one or two movies. The build up with the map and 2 year wait certainly wasn't worth it.

 

[Wor-Gar]

But Han Solo and Luke Skywalker!? The had 4-5 films. That was not a proper send off to Luke. **** doesn't even make sense. After decompressing himself and sitting up straight relaxing, he just . . . dies? It's so stupid. That's not even taking account how lame the whole force projection **** is. How does it even work? I mean, doesn't Luke have to concentrate to project an image of himself across the galaxy? How come the Falcon dice in Kylo's hands disappear and vanish after Luke dies? Shouldn't those have faded away the moment he passed?

It's stupid.

Absolutely, not contesting any of that. Long-range death is generally anti-climactic. In theory, it makes sense as a Jedi trick. In practice, it undermines the drama as its based on a 'lie' to the audience. It's also about as exciting as watching someone else play a video game. It's also based on a trick never shown before in a 60 year timeline, so the reveal has no satisfaction or merit based on previous clues. You know, like when you figure out a mystery and can see the strings going back to set-up the answer. Here, it's just -- Luke did a fake-out astral projection but has exhausted himself. Oh really? We learn the rules after the fact? Well thought-out.

Since he's going to commit suicide anyway, he should have killed himself first and shown up as a Force Ghost. That's established. He could have fought with lightning.

 

[xipotec]

It’s a mindset...cup half empty versus half full
mentality.

I agree with everything posted with the exception of the target. The fandom has kept this stale franchise alive thru Lucas and Disney for years. Kidos to them for their commitment but it’s in the state it is because people lap it up.

Until the product builds itself back to a level I want to invest, I’m simply along for the ride. Good or bad movie is subjective and it doesn’t really bother me. I don’t begrudge other from their enjoyment. I take what I find good in the stories and I’m glad others still find the enjoyment which is the difference. I’m not pissed by what I’m not getting because I’m not actively doing anything to change it. I find other causes more important than SW.

A reasonable reply on an Internet forum!

KILL IT! QUICK


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[Darkseed]

A reasonable reply on an Internet forum!

KILL IT! QUICK

Personal accountability is a *****.....

 

[Wor-Gar]

I had a really great time with a full theater today. Audience had a great time also.

I checked the screening of the last jedi and there were 3people...

Came close to taking the top spot this weekend.

Jumanji UP nearly 40% in its 2nd week. That's good word of mouth.

 

[xipotec]

Personal accountability is a *****.....

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