Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[xipotec]

If your old enough to remember about a year after Jedi....those precious figures everyone wants now were on the discount rack....

Then POTF failure...

Same with PT merchandise...

Where are all those little Ani shirts?


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[Rudimus]

The people who hate TLJ don’t understand what the Jedi really are, don’t remember that the rebellion has usually been a matriarchal structure & are empire fans(even in real life). This movie triggered so many

 

[Vault Boy]

Whoops!

 

[jye4ever]

 

[klwn]

She was just brought back in the Vader comic book btw.
She infiltrated the library in the Jedi Temple to get the list of all young Force sensitives if I remember correctly, and shot Vader with a prototype Kyber-powered rifle.

 

[Darkseed]

Broom boy is alive because of her...nice

 

[Spazz]

If your old enough to remember about a year after Jedi....those precious figures everyone wants now were on the discount rack....

Then POTF failure...

Same with PT merchandise... Where are all those little Ani shirts?
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Yes, and what effect did merchandise have on the making of Star Wars films? Licensing is as large an industry as ticket sales for the Star Wars franchise. Do you honestly think that there's no consequence, when those licensing product can't sell goods?

After ROTJ Lucas waited until after he regained merchandising rights from Kenner to make the PT. His inability to adequately monetize licensing resulted in him not making movies for the franchise, from 1983 to 1999. That's a 16 year gap!

The PT was a disaster for merchandising. Lucasfilm stopped making films for the franchise again, from 2005 to 2015. No films for another decade! Do you honestly think that anyone holding intellectual property would refrain from monetizing it for an entire decade, if it wasn't necessary? Lucas employed a lot of people. The idleness of his franchise cost him a lot of money.

Shareholders demand profit. Any aspect of your business that fails to generate revenue has to be changed. There is no way that Disney is going to shrug off the dismal sales resulting from their licensing, because that reflects negatively on the brand.

 

[klwn]

Yes, and what effect did merchandise have on the making of Star Wars films? Licensing is as large an industry as ticket sales for the Star Wars franchise. Do you honestly think that there's no consequence, when those licensing product can't sell goods?

After ROTJ Lucas waited until after he regained merchandising rights from Kenner to make the PT. His inability to adequately monetize licensing resulted in him not making movies for the franchise, from 1983 to 1999. That's a 16 year gap!

The PT was a disaster for merchandising. Lucasfilm stopped making films for the franchise again, from 2005 to 2015. No films for another decade! Do you honestly think that anyone holding intellectual property would refrain from monetizing it for an entire decade, if it wasn't necessary? Lucas employed a lot of people. The idleness of his franchise cost him a lot of money.

Shareholders demand profit. Any aspect of your business that fails to generate revenue has to be changed. There is no way that Disney is going to shrug off the dismal sales resulting from their licensing, because that reflects negatively on the brand.

Yes. Thank you.
There seems to be this idea that because Lucasfilm is part of Disney, and Disney is all powerful, no matter the state of the franchise sales-wise, it's all good.
That's not how it works. Disney is the incarnation of capitalism, they want more money, all the time. Especially from Star Wars which is 'supposed' to be a money-making machine. And that's understandable, it cost them 4B.

The movies make a lot of money, but that can be multiplied by huge numbers if the merch sells really well. When it's all said and done, a movie like Rogue One brings in a few hundred millions. It's really not that much when you think about it, at least for Disney. They need (or want) the merch to sell, and more importantly they need the franchise to be healthy in the long run, not just for the first few movies.

 

[Khev]

After ROTJ Lucas waited until after he regained merchandising rights from Kenner to make the PT. His inability to adequately monetize licensing resulted in him not making movies for the franchise, from 1983 to 1999. That's a 16 year gap!

That was hardly the reason for TPM coming out in 1999. Lucas was burned out with ROTJ, so much so that he condensed the Saga which had been planned to go another three episodes AFTER Jedi into one film. According to "The Toys That Made Us" documentary Lucas regained control of the merchandise the moment Kenner failed to send him an annual $10,000 royalty in 1987 or 1988. So he could have immediately begun work on the prequels then if he were so inclined. But he wasn't because he was still burned out and wanted visual effects technology to improve first.

Also Lucas only received half a nickel for every dollar earned by Kenner throughout the entire OT and he still became a billionaire so while the merchandise profits are indeed huge they aren't the end all/be all of financial success that some of you are making it out to be.

 

[xipotec]

Yes, and what effect did merchandise have on the making of Star Wars films? Licensing is as large an industry as ticket sales for the Star Wars franchise. Do you honestly think that there's no consequence, when those licensing product can't sell goods?

After ROTJ Lucas waited until after he regained merchandising rights from Kenner to make the PT. His inability to adequately monetize licensing resulted in him not making movies for the franchise, from 1983 to 1999. That's a 16 year gap!

The PT was a disaster for merchandising. Lucasfilm stopped making films for the franchise again, from 2005 to 2015. No films for another decade! Do you honestly think that anyone holding intellectual property would refrain from monetizing it for an entire decade, if it wasn't necessary? Lucas employed a lot of people. The idleness of his franchise cost him a lot of money.

Shareholders demand profit. Any aspect of your business that fails to generate revenue has to be changed. There is no way that Disney is going to shrug off the dismal sales resulting from their licensing, because that reflects negatively on the brand.

Nah , I disagree


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[xipotec]

That was hardly the reason for TPM coming out in 1999. Lucas was burned out with ROTJ, so much so that he condensed the Saga which had been planned to go another three episodes AFTER Jedi into one film. According to "The Toys That Made Us" documentary Lucas regained control of the merchandise the moment Kenner failed to send him an annual $10,000 royalty in 1987 or 1988. So he could have immediately begun work on the prequels then if he were so inclined. But he wasn't because he was still burned out and wanted visual effects technology to improve first.

Also Lucas only received half a nickel for every dollar earned by Kenner throughout the entire OT and he still became a billionaire so while the merchandise profits are indeed huge they aren't the end all/be all of financial success.

Yeah , I agree...


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[Spazz]

That was hardly the reason for TPM coming out in 1999. Lucas was burned out with ROTJ, so much so that he condensed the Saga which had been planned to go another three episodes AFTER Jedi into one film. According to "The Toys That Made Us" documentary Lucas regained control of the merchandise the moment Kenner failed to send him an annual $10,000 royalty in 1987 or 1988. So he could have immediately begun work on the prequels then if he were so inclined. But he wasn't because he was still burned out and wanted visual effects technology to improve first.

At that point, Lucas wasn't just a director, but running a film studio. Film studios aren't thrown to the mercy of a director's artistic whims. Decisions are made based on what will generate revenue. Lucas explicitly stated that the franchised needed a rest, because he was concerned that continued exposure would hurt the brand. It was a financial decision based on his artistic failure and inability to generate adequate revenue, not a matter of his subjective tastes or artistic enthusiasm. He knew he'd be selling the company, and wanted to maximize its value. He's mentioned in a number of interviews that he was acutely aware of the need to monetize Star Wars, because he employed so many people.

 

[aa909]

Fixed.

LOL! but it's going to end up with over 200,000 votes on RT and rank in the 40% range, probably ~10 points under AOTC for all time worst star wars movie. 200,000 votes is a statistically significant sample size and should be considered representative of the general audience given that the standard reference points of TPM and AOTC, which are generally regarded as being subpar SW movies, scored 59% and 57% respectively.

We can debate sample bias (which you would also apply to the PT as well), but with 200,000 votes you can confidently say that TLJ is considered by the general audience to be no better than AOTC or TPM. Arguing otherwise is subjective and purely personal bias.

 

[jye4ever]

Khev upon learning Rey’s parents were nobody and Snoke wasn’t Plagueis...

 

[Khev]

At that point, Lucas wasn't just a director, but running a film studio. Film studios aren't thrown to the mercy of a director's artistic whims. Decisions are made based on what will generate revenue. Lucas explicitly stated that the franchised needed a rest, because he was concerned that continued exposure would hurt the brand. It was a financial decision based on his artistic failure and inability to generate adequate revenue, not a matter of his subjective tastes or artistic enthusiasm. He knew he'd be selling the company, and wanted to maximize its value. He's mentioned in a number of interviews that he was acutely aware of the need to monetize Star Wars, because he employed so many people.

Sorry but Lucas delaying the prequels due to emotional/creative burnout and waiting for VFX advancements has been common knowledge for decades now:

 

[Khev]

Khev upon learning Rey’s parents were nobody and Snoke wasn’t Plagueis...

Yep that was me, lol.

 

[Spazz]

According to "The Toys That Made Us" documentary Lucas regained control of the merchandise the moment Kenner failed to send him an annual $10,000 royalty in 1987 or 1988.

I just checked, and you got the dates wrong. "There was no Kenner merchandise between 1986 and 1995. A year went by, and no check was sent so the contract expired, and Lucasfilm had the rights to renegotiate." So you're wrong. The PT coincided with the toys rights. "It was shortly after that, that George announced that he was going to make the prequal trilogy."

 

[Khev]

I just checked, and you got the dates wrong. "There was no Kenner merchandise between 1986 and 1995. A year went by, and no check was sent so the contract expired, and Lucasfilm had the rights to renegotiate." So you're wrong. The PT coincided with the toys rights. "It was shortly after that, that George announced that he was going to make the prequal trilogy."

That disputes nothing that I said. Everyone knows that there were no new Kenner SW toys between 1985 and 1995. Again, common knowledge.

 

[Bo Shrek]

Curious who is the Leader of the First Order (i.e.. President). Is it Snoke? Also Hux must have a very high command as per his big speech in TFA on Star Killer base. Not 100% sure what Kylo’s job is in the context of the First Order. What does the sign on his Office or Business card say? Sith? Basically what I am trying to understand is that in TLJ – The First Order dispatched their President (Snoke?), Vice President (Hux?) and top advisor (Kylo?) to destroy/capture a small handful of Rebels? Aside from the expendable soldiers is Leia the “Bin Laden” of the Rebels? Even with Bin Laden, there was no need for Obama physically be on the mission. So who is the Leader of the First Order (i.e.. President)? Can't be Snoke as him and Kylo appear to have their own personal "Jedi" agenda.



On a side note if the only remaining survivors (not including Rey & Chewbacca) could fit in the Falcon then the death toll for the Resistance must have been phenomenal!! HUGE loss.

 

[Spazz]

So now that we've confirmed that Khev was wrong, and that Lucas did indeed wait 16 years to make the prequel trilogy only after he regained licensing rights for the Toys, I think it's safe to say that the licensing of toys does directly influence film-making, and particularly Star Wars. Disney shareholders will undoubtedly intervene when they realize how divisive TLJ has been, and acknowledge that Kathleen Kennedy's wilful disregard for (and arguable malice toward) male fans is costing them a lot of money.