Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

For those talking about how JJ can fix who is Rey and their relationship, I feel that ship has sailed by what Johnson has done. Whatever damage control or retcon they try will be forced and make even less sense at this point. The inconsistencies are already a huge part of the problem in TLJ, do we really want them carrying over into ep9? Unless Kennedy & Johnson come out and publicly apologize for what they did/allowed to happen, it's just another FU to the fans they want to go away.

They can't be twins as there is about a 10 year gap in there age. Kylo is 29/30, Rey is 19/20. The time frames already dictate that and are stated in what Disney calls "Canon". Plus the ages of the actors are clearly nowhere near the same. We know Johnson already decided he didn't care about continuity, but this would make things even worse. Second, Rey has already interacted with Han, Chewie, Leia and Luke. Someone would've shown some kind of emotional attachment somewhere over the last 2 movies. The closest we have as to someone knowing is Kylo being interested in "a girl, what girl" or something like that line he had in TFA, like he new something. And we all now know that apparently, according to Johnson, didn't mean anything. Something unrelated to the Skywalkers is the only way to have the connection make sense, but good luck on that one. Just like we were never meant to learn why the lightsaber called to Rey. According to this new lore that any one can be a jedi, is Rey really the 1st force sensitive person in the galaxy to ever set foot in Maz's castle?? Cause apparently the lightsaber was just looking for a new home, not longing to be with a descendant....

Well said. Very logical. Disney doesn't care about logic or sense.

 

[loki2371]

There are no inconsistencies. Kylo is Han and Leia's son. Rey is the daughter of some random junk traders. The end. If she has different parents in Episode IX then that will be the result of an Abrams retcon and no fault of TFA/TLJ.

Th inconsistencies between all 8 saga movies, not between Kylo & Rey. Didn't think I needed to explain that. My bad

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

But how do you explain Luke's lightsaber that 'talked' to her with visions... including Ben Kenobi's voice calling out "Rey"...?

Da force!!

 

[Khev]

But how do you explain Luke's lightsaber that 'talked' to her with visions... including Ben Kenobi's voice calling out "Rey"...?

Did the lightsaber talk to her? Or did the Force talk to her the moment she touched a Jedi artifact? Maybe that would have happened the moment she entered any "Force-sensitive" place or touched any artifact/Jedi weapon. I'm not arguing one way or the other and I think it's likely that Abrams considered Luke's saber "special" but I never really loved that idea and am glad that it's at least ambiguous enough that I can make my own conclusions about that scene.

 

[Khev]

Th inconsistencies between all 8 saga movies

I know lol I literally typed as I wrote that as I fully anticipated someone to freak and make a big list of all the different inconsistencies (many of which I've called out myself in the past. Oh well.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Well obviously Snoke would have no way of knowing which Resistance members may or may not have ever looked at the map

From the look of it, all the rebels were present. Anyway, Snoke could have sent Kylo, Hux, Phasma or anyone to continue to hunt for the map. I mean, TFA starts with a hunt for the map, not Rey. Why did that mission stop because one nobody read the map along with 50 other rebels?

so once he [Snoke] lifted her up in the air and read her mind he sent her over to Kylo to be beheaded.

Strange he needed her in front of him to "read her mind" after so much Force-Skyping. But OK...

I'm not sure how that's a "Rian" change though since in TFA Snoke wanted Luke and when Kylo couldn't pull the map out of Rey's head Snoke ordered her to be brought to him. Which of course happened in TLJ.

I guess the change happened in TFA then -- going from "get the map" to "get the girl". The assumption after all that talk about how powerful Rey is was that Snoke had plans for her power. But then none of that was of interest to him afterall and we go back to his original goal: just gimme the map.

 

[aa909]

For those talking about how JJ can fix who is Rey and their relationship, I feel that ship has sailed by what Johnson has done. Whatever damage control or retcon they try will be forced and make even less sense at this point. The inconsistencies are already a huge part of the problem in TLJ, do we really want them carrying over into ep9? Unless Kennedy & Johnson come out and publicly apologize for what they did/allowed to happen, it's just another FU to the fans they want to go away.

They can't be twins as there is about a 10 year gap in there age. Kylo is 29/30, Rey is 19/20. The time frames already dictate that and are stated in what Disney calls "Canon". Plus the ages of the actors are clearly nowhere near the same. We know Johnson already decided he didn't care about continuity, but this would make things even worse. Second, Rey has already interacted with Han, Chewie, Leia and Luke. Someone would've shown some kind of emotional attachment somewhere over the last 2 movies. The closest we have as to someone knowing is Kylo being interested in "a girl, what girl" or something like that line he had in TFA, like he new something. And we all now know that apparently, according to Johnson, didn't mean anything. Something unrelated to the Skywalkers is the only way to have the connection make sense, but good luck on that one. Just like we were never meant to learn why the lightsaber called to Rey. According to this new lore that any one can be a jedi, is Rey really the 1st force sensitive person in the galaxy to ever set foot in Maz's castle?? Cause apparently the lightsaber was just looking for a new home, not longing to be with a descendant....

your last point is a HUGE plot hole. but it was only one of sooooooooooo many plot holes in this sh** show of a movie.

 

[Khev]

From the look of it, all the rebels were present.

Yes but why do you expect Snoke to know that? It's not like he was in the room counting heads while they were all looking at it.

Anyway, Snoke could have sent Kylo, Hux, Phasma or anyone to continue to hunt for the map. I mean, TFA starts with a hunt for the map, not Rey. Why did that mission stop because one nobody read the map along with 50 other rebels?

Well in TFA they had tracked the map to Lor San Tekka (Max Von Sydow) before learning that it had been given to BB-8. But once BB-8 made it back to the Resistance base they'd have absolutely know way of knowing what had become of it. So Snoke's plan changed to simply annihilating the Resistance outright until Rey dropped into his lap as a result of him manipulating Kylo's link to her.

 

[aa909]

There are no inconsistencies. Kylo is Han and Leia's son. Rey is the daughter of some random junk traders. The end. If she has different parents in Episode IX then that will be the result of an Abrams retcon and no fault of TFA/TLJ.

I can personally live with some broken logic IF the totality of the story makes sense but HUGE plot holes and lazy writing is another issue. for example:

why does Holdo wait until 90% of the shuttles are blown away before she goes kamikaze hyperspace on the FO fleet? and why doesn't she just have a driod fly the ship via autopilot?

if she could use hyperspace as a weapon then why didn't she use the two smaller ships (medical frigate and escort ship) to hyperspace into the FO fleet right at the beginning? or against the dreadnaught in the opening sequence of the movie?

Starting with episode 9, How will they explain why every battle doesn't use weaponized hyperspace against large enemy ships?

Kylo has been trained for years by Luke and Snoke in the force. How does Rey, with zero training, beat him so quickly?

the list goes on and on...

 

[Khev]

I can personally live with some broken logic IF the totality of the story makes sense but HUGE plot holes and lazy writing is another issue. for example:

why does Holdo wait until 90% of the shuttles are blown away before she goes kamikaze hyperspace on the FO fleet? and why doesn't she just have a driod fly the ship via autopilot?

if she could use hyperspace as a weapon then why didn't she use the two smaller ships (medical frigate and escort ship) to hyperspace into the FO fleet right at the beginning? or against the dreadnaught in the opening sequence of the movie?

Starting with episode 9, How will they explain why every battle doesn't use weaponized hyperspace against large enemy ships?

Kylo has been trained for years by Luke and Snoke in the force. How does Rey, with zero training, beat him so quickly?

the list goes on and on...

Wah, why didn't Tarkin just blow up Yavin in ANH instead of orbiting it for no reason. Why didn't the snowspeeders attack the AT-AT's from *behind*. Why did the Rebels send capital ships to go be sitting ducks during that DSII attack when clearly fighters were all that were necessary? All silly questions to ask about a SW movie.

 

[John Nada]

Xipotec - beta male
Khev - beta male
Jye - beta male

 

[medicomsucks]

....
Therefore: Rey must have Skywalker blood. If she's not Luke's offspring, then she must be the secret sister of Leia and Han...

You mean secret daughter?

As far as Rey and her origin, I think they should just keep it as is now. My impression was snoke wanted Rey to join him and have her kill kylo ren.

As far as lukes lightsaber, what bothers me more than how they got It is why didn't he use his green lightsaber in the projection battle? Wouldn't that have had a bigger impression on kylo than the blue one, which kylo helped destroy a few scenes earlier, (though he may not have known luke once owned it)?

 

[Khev]

As far as lukes lightsaber, what bothers me more than how they got It is why didn't he use his green lightsaber in the projection battle? Wouldn't that have had a bigger impression on kylo than the blue one, which kylo helped destroy a few scenes earlier, (though he may not have known luke once owned it)?

The blue saber that Luke used during the Force Projection scene was symbolic of him fully returning to the Jedi Order. In the opening scene the saber was handed to him and he threw it away. Then later Rey bested him in combat in the rain and as he lay before her she offered it to him again. This time he didn't throw it away, but he still didn't accept it. In the final scene of the film he wielded the blue to indicate that he realized that he should have rightfully accepted it all along.

Plus it was an obvious "hint" for the audience that Luke wasn't "real" since as you said by that point in the film the real blue saber had been destroyed.

 

[medicomsucks]

Wah, why didn't Tarkin just blow up Yavin in ANH instead of orbiting it for no reason. Why didn't the snowspeeders attack the AT-AT's from *behind*. Why did the Rebels send capital ships to go be sitting ducks during that DSII attack when clearly fighters were all that were necessary? All silly questions to ask about a SW movie.

Well, the snowspeeders do attack from behind as well, but if you mean why don't they just flank them, my guess is they are trying to slow them down to load the transports. Only a guess though.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Rey bested him in combat in the rain and as he lay before her....

 

[Wor-Gar]

Wah, why didn't Tarkin just blow up Yavin in ANH instead of orbiting it for no reason.

This argument has been brought up for years and I always wonder: did anyone see how big Yavin was compared to the Death Star? I bet that Planet-Smasher laser wouldn't make much more than a dent (Grand Canyon-sized granted) on the surface. As current evidence, though on quarter power or whatever, it would be like destroying Jedha instead of the entire planet. I think they were forced to move around it. As 'she' said: it's just too big.

The better question is: why didn't they wait until the moon orbited Yavin itself and then hyperspace in when the moon was already in range?

That one I can't answer. Eagerness? They like to be sneaky and dramatic?

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Well, the snowspeeders do attack from behind as well, but if you mean why don't they just flank them, my guess is they are trying to slow them down to load the transports. Only a guess though.

Lazy writing forces D) people to make up their own answers.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Star Wars has a long history of fan accommodation. Why should it stop now when its most needed.

 

[Khev]

I figured someone would make reference to her "Mary Sue" nature when I posted that. But I swear it's like you guys missed everything in this movie. Did no one notice that Luke fell backward in the exact same position as when he fell on the gantry and Vader said "you are beaten?" And Rey literally stood over him in the *exact* same pose as Vader. Remember Luke clearly had no fight in him at that stage in his life and was absolutely terrified of Rey's power and her seeming leaning toward "the Dark." And then here she was standing over him in Vader-esque fashion fulfilling his deepest fears until she turned off the saber and said that she wouldn't fail him. That was when things started to change for Luke.

 

[Khev]

Star Wars has a long history of fan accommodation. Why should it stop now when its most needed.

Exactly! I even have apologetic excuses for all those "tactical errors" that I posted from the OT. The point is that those issues are always a part of SW and it's never a good idea to spend too much time overthinking them.

Well, the snowspeeders do attack from behind as well, but if you mean why don't they just flank them, my guess is they are trying to slow them down to load the transports. Only a guess though.

My personal "excuse" for the snowspeeders constantly attacking the AT-AT's from the front was that they didn't know the exact range of the AT-AT laser cannons and wanted to be a constant distraction to keep their attention away from blasting the shield generators.