MarfMaster
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Terminator Genisys (July 1st, 2015)
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Re: Terminator 5 - Shooting Jan 2014
My theory is that originally, Kyle Reese wasn't even John Connors father in whatever the first timeline was. Sarah goes out after her boyfriend stands her up, goes to Tech Noir, hooks up with some dude and has a one night stand. Skynet on the other hand is created the "natural way" without the arm and chip.
Somehow she gets rebellious, maybe gets with a couple, crazy ex-Green Beret guys (like John says in T2) and goes out and lives a life in the mountains. Then BAM, Judgment Day happens. **** goes down. John Connor meets Reese at the compound where they follow out the horrific disposal orders at the camps. After wards, Connor storms the place, and they escape. John Connor becomes leader, they figure out Skynet's plan and Reese, knowing the story of Sarah, volunteers to go. Maybe a couple volunteers go like the original screen play had (one of the soliders who went with Reese was supposed to get trapped/fused into the brick wall and metal catwalk in the alley and dies). Then of course, Reese's presence messes up the time line, he gets with Sarah, and then you have a new Connor, a new Skynet and a new timeline. What we see in the first Terminator.
That's how I saw it anyway. The only problem I had was with the actual mission. Why would future Skynet care about past Skynet as it's losing/dying? Why does Connor care about his past self? It's not like this is Back to the Future where they start to fade away when the time continuum is interrupted. I mean, the T1 T-800 and the T-1000 are sent back before Connor can send Kyle Reese and the reprogrammed T-800. What does he care? He's not dead, he's not dying, they won. What does it matter to him if, in an alternate reality, he dies? There doesn't seem to be any consequences, because, if there were, as soon as Skynet sends back the two Terminators, John should be dead because he hasn't sent back his protectors. What's at stake? Why should future Skynet and John care?
My theory is that originally, Kyle Reese wasn't even John Connors father in whatever the first timeline was. Sarah goes out after her boyfriend stands her up, goes to Tech Noir, hooks up with some dude and has a one night stand. Skynet on the other hand is created the "natural way" without the arm and chip.
Somehow she gets rebellious, maybe gets with a couple, crazy ex-Green Beret guys (like John says in T2) and goes out and lives a life in the mountains. Then BAM, Judgment Day happens. **** goes down. John Connor meets Reese at the compound where they follow out the horrific disposal orders at the camps. After wards, Connor storms the place, and they escape. John Connor becomes leader, they figure out Skynet's plan and Reese, knowing the story of Sarah, volunteers to go. Maybe a couple volunteers go like the original screen play had (one of the soliders who went with Reese was supposed to get trapped/fused into the brick wall and metal catwalk in the alley and dies). Then of course, Reese's presence messes up the time line, he gets with Sarah, and then you have a new Connor, a new Skynet and a new timeline. What we see in the first Terminator.
That's how I saw it anyway. The only problem I had was with the actual mission. Why would future Skynet care about past Skynet as it's losing/dying? Why does Connor care about his past self? It's not like this is Back to the Future where they start to fade away when the time continuum is interrupted. I mean, the T1 T-800 and the T-1000 are sent back before Connor can send Kyle Reese and the reprogrammed T-800. What does he care? He's not dead, he's not dying, they won. What does it matter to him if, in an alternate reality, he dies? There doesn't seem to be any consequences, because, if there were, as soon as Skynet sends back the two Terminators, John should be dead because he hasn't sent back his protectors. What's at stake? Why should future Skynet and John care?
thenammagazine
Super Freak
Re: Terminator 5 - Shooting Jan 2014
Or why wouldn't Skynet just send an army of terminators into the short past to ambush, overwhelm and kill John Conner during his strike? Then Sarah's not even a ****ing issue.
Or why wouldn't Skynet just send an army of terminators into the short past to ambush, overwhelm and kill John Conner during his strike? Then Sarah's not even a ****ing issue.
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Re: Terminator 5 - Shooting Jan 2014
That's true. Once the name Connor got around, he could just go back in time and warn his/it's/whatever past self to be like, "you know that Connor guy that you're going to bar code when he arrives into your concentration camp, yeah, kill him. He's nothing but trouble".
Or why wouldn't Skynet just send an army of terminators into the short past to ambush, overwhelm and kill John Conner during his strike? Then Sarah's not even a ****ing issue.
That's true. Once the name Connor got around, he could just go back in time and warn his/it's/whatever past self to be like, "you know that Connor guy that you're going to bar code when he arrives into your concentration camp, yeah, kill him. He's nothing but trouble".
thenammagazine
Super Freak
Re: Terminator 5 - Shooting Jan 2014
That's still too far back. Given they were able to send the T800 back just before John takes Skynet, they could've sent more than one. Or just send that one to kill him right before he yells, "attack!" Done. He goes to yell, Arnie appears right before him in the time-displacement orb, runs at John, meat swinging in the night, grabs him by the neck and *SNAP!* Skynet continues to exist, the resistance falls apart because from everything we've been shown, they're completely incapable without John Connor and the machines rule the earth.
That's true. Once the name Connor got around, he could just go back in time and warn his/it's/whatever past self to be like, "you know that Connor guy that you're going to bar code when he arrives into your concentration camp, yeah, kill him. He's nothing but trouble".
That's still too far back. Given they were able to send the T800 back just before John takes Skynet, they could've sent more than one. Or just send that one to kill him right before he yells, "attack!" Done. He goes to yell, Arnie appears right before him in the time-displacement orb, runs at John, meat swinging in the night, grabs him by the neck and *SNAP!* Skynet continues to exist, the resistance falls apart because from everything we've been shown, they're completely incapable without John Connor and the machines rule the earth.
Sachiel
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Re: Terminator 5 - Shooting Jan 2014
It's weird, that's like the third Austin Powers reference I've seen today. One of them was at work and wasn't even internet related. I think fate seems to be telling me that I need to go put that in and watch it.
It's weird, that's like the third Austin Powers reference I've seen today. One of them was at work and wasn't even internet related. I think fate seems to be telling me that I need to go put that in and watch it.
Re: Terminator 5 - Shooting Jan 2014
With Megan Ellison's Annapurna Pictures backing out and her brother David's Skydance Productions contributing the lions share of the budget, this is guaranteed to be a ****ty PG-13 release. We were promised a hard R rating and judging by what David Elisson did with World War Z, this will be cut to shreds to fit in with the tween market.
As has been said before, thank god T1 and T2 are self contained as this will no doubt join the level of disappointment that the 3rd and 4th have.
With Megan Ellison's Annapurna Pictures backing out and her brother David's Skydance Productions contributing the lions share of the budget, this is guaranteed to be a ****ty PG-13 release. We were promised a hard R rating and judging by what David Elisson did with World War Z, this will be cut to shreds to fit in with the tween market.
As has been said before, thank god T1 and T2 are self contained as this will no doubt join the level of disappointment that the 3rd and 4th have.
Re: Terminator 5 - Shooting Jan 2014
If they would just explain how difficult it is to send something/someone back in time in one of these films, it would make a lot more sense. Because, yeah, otherwise, why not send a whole bunch of terminators back in time? Or even send a second Terminator shortly after so just when Sarah thinks she's crushed the only Terminator and is safe, BAM, Terminator #2 pops up and takes her out easily. Just a line here or there explaining the difficulty with time travel could wash away some of the plot holes/complaints that have developed over the years. I mean, why go after Teenage John? Why not Prego Sarah or toddler John? Seems like there would have been better points in time to attack him than when they did in T2/T3/TSCC.
If they would just explain how difficult it is to send something/someone back in time in one of these films, it would make a lot more sense. Because, yeah, otherwise, why not send a whole bunch of terminators back in time? Or even send a second Terminator shortly after so just when Sarah thinks she's crushed the only Terminator and is safe, BAM, Terminator #2 pops up and takes her out easily. Just a line here or there explaining the difficulty with time travel could wash away some of the plot holes/complaints that have developed over the years. I mean, why go after Teenage John? Why not Prego Sarah or toddler John? Seems like there would have been better points in time to attack him than when they did in T2/T3/TSCC.
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Re: Terminator 5 - Shooting Jan 2014
It still doesn't mean a damn thing if the present, future John Connor and Skynet aren't personally effected by the time travelers they send back. This isn't how the Terminator universe works,
So why does it matter? Kyle Reese says that John Connor sends him through after the first Terminator goes back in time. Which means Kyle Reese goes back after the Terminator, not at the same time. That means, during that time the Terminator has gone back alone, he's succeeded in killing Sarah Connor. John Connor is fine though and witnesses Kyle go back. So why would he give a **** about his alternate reality self? He's still alive, who cares about his alternate self? In fact, why does Skynet care? He's still defeated, he's still losing. Sending a Terminator back helps it's existence in an alternate timeline, not the current one it's experiencing.
Same goes for Terminator 2. When they destroy Cyberdyne systems and help prevent Judgment Day, the T-800, T-1000 and John Connor just don't disappear. They're still around. So WHY should John or Skynet be concerned with alternate versions of themselves?
It'd be like me worring about a possible past version of myself. If it isn't going to effect my existence as I am now, why should I give a damn? Go ahead Skynet, kill me in another universe, I still beat you in this one and I'm still alive.
And let's say that the Back to the Future situation did happen (which it doesn't, clearly). As soon as the T-800 guns down Sarah or the T-1000 stabs John Connor, the two T-800s, T-1000, Kyle Reese and John Connor wouldn't exist. Why? Because they're all from the future. And without Sarah's existence, Skynet has no reason to send them back in time. If it has no reason to send them back, no John and Kyle, no Terminators, maybe even no Skynet because no arm or chip (if it's a straight loop).
Who cares about "one possible future" if I'm winning in the present? There's a what if to everything, doesn't mean it concerns me.
It still doesn't mean a damn thing if the present, future John Connor and Skynet aren't personally effected by the time travelers they send back. This isn't how the Terminator universe works,
So why does it matter? Kyle Reese says that John Connor sends him through after the first Terminator goes back in time. Which means Kyle Reese goes back after the Terminator, not at the same time. That means, during that time the Terminator has gone back alone, he's succeeded in killing Sarah Connor. John Connor is fine though and witnesses Kyle go back. So why would he give a **** about his alternate reality self? He's still alive, who cares about his alternate self? In fact, why does Skynet care? He's still defeated, he's still losing. Sending a Terminator back helps it's existence in an alternate timeline, not the current one it's experiencing.
Same goes for Terminator 2. When they destroy Cyberdyne systems and help prevent Judgment Day, the T-800, T-1000 and John Connor just don't disappear. They're still around. So WHY should John or Skynet be concerned with alternate versions of themselves?
It'd be like me worring about a possible past version of myself. If it isn't going to effect my existence as I am now, why should I give a damn? Go ahead Skynet, kill me in another universe, I still beat you in this one and I'm still alive.
And let's say that the Back to the Future situation did happen (which it doesn't, clearly). As soon as the T-800 guns down Sarah or the T-1000 stabs John Connor, the two T-800s, T-1000, Kyle Reese and John Connor wouldn't exist. Why? Because they're all from the future. And without Sarah's existence, Skynet has no reason to send them back in time. If it has no reason to send them back, no John and Kyle, no Terminators, maybe even no Skynet because no arm or chip (if it's a straight loop).
Who cares about "one possible future" if I'm winning in the present? There's a what if to everything, doesn't mean it concerns me.
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thenammagazine
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Re: Terminator 5 - Shooting Jan 2014
That's why my idea works best. Send the T-800 back just moments before Connor actually attacks Skynet, kill him, and enjoy the future as the rest of the resistance scurry off like ants, their queen slaughtered.
That's why my idea works best. Send the T-800 back just moments before Connor actually attacks Skynet, kill him, and enjoy the future as the rest of the resistance scurry off like ants, their queen slaughtered.
Frank Jaeger
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Terminator 5 - Shooting Jan 2014
There's a lot of grey area really, like it doesn't say that because the first terminator went back before Kyle that it successfully killed Sarah. It doesn't say anything about the duration of the time travel, doesn't it say they both went through the same wormhole or something?
Maybe it could be like bttf and your just expected to suspend your belief in that the first terminator was sent back, Kyle was sent back at a later point but somehow manages to get to Sarah at the same time and then eventually terminate the terminator
That is only for T1 though
There's a lot of grey area really, like it doesn't say that because the first terminator went back before Kyle that it successfully killed Sarah. It doesn't say anything about the duration of the time travel, doesn't it say they both went through the same wormhole or something?
Maybe it could be like bttf and your just expected to suspend your belief in that the first terminator was sent back, Kyle was sent back at a later point but somehow manages to get to Sarah at the same time and then eventually terminate the terminator
That is only for T1 though
Re: Terminator 5 - Shooting Jan 2014
That certainly seems to be route that Edge of Tomorrow is taking.
That's why my idea works best. Send the T-800 back just moments before Connor actually attacks Skynet, kill him, and enjoy the future as the rest of the resistance scurry off like ants, their queen slaughtered.
That certainly seems to be route that Edge of Tomorrow is taking.
thenammagazine
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Re: Terminator 5 - Shooting Jan 2014
Problem with that is, there would still need to be a John Connor that wins in order for Skynet to be like, "oh ****, I'm dying, I'm done, LAST DITCH EFFORT!". Because no matter what happens, Skynet always loses. In order for Skynet to gain that insight, it has to lose.
So yeah, any Terminator it sends ain't going to help the current Skynet, just an alternate one. It'd be like, crap, I'm losing, sending . . . Then John and Co. kill it and that's it. Unless somehow it would have all of it's files onto that Terminator it sends back or something, but we've never seen anything like that before. All of Skynet's machines are separate entities, Skynet actually feared the T-1000 because it had it's own line of thinking and could turn on it if it created it's own agenda.
Put it simply, John and Skynet aren't very smart. The way both of them rigged the game is that they both rely on each other for their own existence. In a way, Skynet creates John and John creates Skynet. It's pretty funky. If either one of them accept defeat and just lose/die, they both essentially die.
"It messes with your head."
Sort of makes sense for Skynet to care about an alternate reality version of itself I guess because it's a freaking machine. It would think like that "yeah, if I'm not going to exist here, might as well exist over there". But the humans? I don't see why they'd care. Okay, go kill alternate John. Present John ain't going to be hurt by it.
Problem with that is, there would still need to be a John Connor that wins in order for Skynet to be like, "oh ****, I'm dying, I'm done, LAST DITCH EFFORT!". Because no matter what happens, Skynet always loses. In order for Skynet to gain that insight, it has to lose.
So yeah, any Terminator it sends ain't going to help the current Skynet, just an alternate one. It'd be like, crap, I'm losing, sending . . . Then John and Co. kill it and that's it. Unless somehow it would have all of it's files onto that Terminator it sends back or something, but we've never seen anything like that before. All of Skynet's machines are separate entities, Skynet actually feared the T-1000 because it had it's own line of thinking and could turn on it if it created it's own agenda.
Put it simply, John and Skynet aren't very smart. The way both of them rigged the game is that they both rely on each other for their own existence. In a way, Skynet creates John and John creates Skynet. It's pretty funky. If either one of them accept defeat and just lose/die, they both essentially die.
"It messes with your head."
Sort of makes sense for Skynet to care about an alternate reality version of itself I guess because it's a freaking machine. It would think like that "yeah, if I'm not going to exist here, might as well exist over there". But the humans? I don't see why they'd care. Okay, go kill alternate John. Present John ain't going to be hurt by it.
fosing
Super Freak
Re: Terminator 5 - Shooting Jan 2014
that would be like a 15min movie.
That's why my idea works best. Send the T-800 back just moments before Connor actually attacks Skynet, kill him, and enjoy the future as the rest of the resistance scurry off like ants, their queen slaughtered.
that would be like a 15min movie.
Re: Terminator 5 - Shooting Jan 2014
I think you just have to be willing to believe that the humans aren't aware of the existence of alternate universes. John thinks he *has* to send Reese back for him and the Resistance to survive but unbeknownst to him he was already guaranteed victory. All he accomplished was just setting up a cool showdown in an alternate 1984.
I think you just have to be willing to believe that the humans aren't aware of the existence of alternate universes. John thinks he *has* to send Reese back for him and the Resistance to survive but unbeknownst to him he was already guaranteed victory. All he accomplished was just setting up a cool showdown in an alternate 1984.
thenammagazine
Super Freak
Re: Terminator 5 - Shooting Jan 2014
You could pull a Snyder and film it all in slo-mo.
that would be like a 15min movie.
You could pull a Snyder and film it all in slo-mo.
Mr. EcKo
OG Freak
Re: Terminator 5 - Shooting Jan 2014
You guys are over analyzing it. Lol
I read the last 3 pages and my head hurts
You guys are over analyzing it. Lol
I read the last 3 pages and my head hurts
stshammgod
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Re: Terminator 5 - Shooting Jan 2014
What I wanna know is... How the heck is Arnold gonna pull off playing the Terminator at his age?
What I wanna know is... How the heck is Arnold gonna pull off playing the Terminator at his age?
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