The "All things TERMINATOR" thread.

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Yes John taught him how to change his behavior to better interact with humans and I can easily assume that the woman he chose to provide for would have done much the same.

Why would a Terminator choose to provide for a woman?

 

[Khev]

Why would a Terminator choose to provide for a woman?

Well his purpose given by Skynet was to hunt for a woman with a child and so maybe shifting his attention to another woman and child made the most logical sense to him. Then since he wanted a more sustainable purpose he knew that protecting would last longer than destroying, basically coming to the same conclusion as Sarah's "you men don't know what it's like to create life, only destroy" speech but without the altruism and without the emotion.

It just made the most mathematical sense for him.

 

[rjszar]

Just saw the movie. I enjoyed it. Thought it was third best in the series. Only other thing I wanted to say is that Neca did NOT make Sarah too old. She has a lot more wrinkles than in that comparison shot that was used in here. Oh, the opening scene looked way better than that video. I saw this in IMAX, so not sure if that made a difference, but I could not believe they weren't real. You usually can pick up on something fairly quickly. I was impressed.

 

[DiFabio]

I agree but DF does still give a more satisfying scenario for how things might play out post-T2 than the epilogue with old Sarah on the park bench IMO.

*That* Carl was 100% in line with T1 and T2 and then everything after was new territory not covered by the previous T-800's due to them being destroyed. Yes John taught him how to change his behavior to better interact with humans and I can easily assume that the woman he chose to provide for would have done much the same. Any man who's ever been married definitely knows what I'm talking about, lol.

He's not a man! He's a machine!

The only reason the T-800s mission parameters change in T2 is because his programmed orders are to follow exactly what John says. People are saying that Carl is the first Terminator to succeed in it's mission, but we already saw what happens when a Terminator accomplishes it's mission . . . he lowers himself into a vat of molten lava. He breaks his programming and kills himself, he's not getting married and opening a ****ing quaint pizza shop.

WTF Khev.

None of the three movies line up perfectly (come on we all know damn well that if the 1984 Terminator walked into the T2 biker bar he would have put the knife through the guy's skull not his shoulder) but they do well enough for the story that is being told.

I don't know, would he? He didn't rip the heart out of the Tech Noir bouncers chest. Like you said, he broke his hand. Didn't kill the guy in the phone booth, he threw him out of the way. He throttles Matt around without killing him instantly. He didn't kill officer William Wisher when he stole the cop car. In fact, he does things Uncle Bob does. In T2, there are tons of instances where the Terminator uses blunt force trauma to people's heads. The Pescadero lady with the cast he shoves, the cop he steals the patrol car from (just like in T1), etc. The biker bar scene is pretty intense. He breaks that guys arm and stabs him into the pool table and burns the other biker's hands and face on a grill. Worse than what the Terminator does in T1 with some of the random people he encounters.

 

[Khev]

Just saw the movie. I enjoyed it. Thought it was third best in the series. Only other thing I wanted to say is that Neca did NOT make Sarah too old. She has a lot more wrinkles than in that comparison shot that was used in here. Oh, the opening scene looked way better than that video. I saw this in IMAX, so not sure if that made a difference, but I could not believe they weren't real. You usually can pick up on something fairly quickly. I was impressed.

Nice! I agree with all of the above including the de-aging. I can't believe that it was so perfect. There was nothing about it that gave away the fact that we *weren't* watching a discarded outtake from T2. How they nailed this scene but botched Arnold's face on the motorcycle stuntman is beyond me, lol.

 

[DiFabio]

Why would a Terminator choose to provide for a woman?

Because he felt bad for taking John away from Sarah.

He also ends all of his text messages with "for John" too. I wish I was making this **** up.

I wonder if deep down inside, the Terminator felt bad for killing all those wrong Sarah Connors too once he realized he found the right one, Now that's a movie I want to see.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Well his purpose given by Skynet was to hunt for a woman with a child and so maybe shifting his attention to another woman and child made the most logical sense to him. Then since he wanted a more sustainable purpose he knew that protecting would last longer than destroying.

Can a Terminator be capable of choosing, wanting, or having sense? Especially with no incidental human interaction like Uncle Bob had while he was doing his job of protecting John Connor. A Terminator is supposed to be one of if not the most efficient killing tool ever created. It would make more sense for that tool to perhaps continue doing what it was designed to do, so joining the military and becoming a soldier and "blending" in until the inevitable judgment day seems like the proper protocol he would have been given by Skynet.

In fact, it would make sense for Skynet to provide the T 800 some specific instructions once he accomplishes his goal. This idea that the T 800 can achieve some kind of freedom from Skynet and become a real boy Pinocchio style sounds like the kind of fanfiction SNIKT would have posted here a few years ago. It's a strategical mistake for Skynet to send a machine back in time that can eventually become an enemy or help the humans in any way.

 

[Khev]

He's not a man! He's a machine!

The only reason the T-800s mission parameters change in T2 is because his programmed orders are to follow exactly what John says. People are saying that Carl is the first Terminator to succeed in it's mission, but we already saw what happens when a Terminator accomplishes it's mission . . . he lowers himself into a vat of molten lava. He breaks his programming and kills himself, he's not getting married and opening a ****ing quaint pizza shop.

WTF Khev.

Well there you go, just like Carl. I'm not even sure that him taking on an unassuming identity as a family man *can't* be a version of him going dormant until the war begins. Hiding in plain sight so to speak. Sarah herself even called him out as an infiltrator and for no one to believe his lies. Primary objective: Terminate John Connor. Secondary Objective: Assimilate with humans until further instructions are given. Further instructions which never came causing him to run with his secondary objective for decades on end. Just another plausible (IMO anyway) scenario.

I don't know, would he? He didn't rip the heart out of the Tech Noir bouncers chest. Like you said, he broke his hand. Didn't kill the guy in the phone booth, he threw him out of the way. He throttles Matt around without killing him instantly. He didn't kill officer William Wisher when he stole the cop car. In fact, he does things Uncle Bob does. In T2, there are tons of instances where the Terminator uses blunt force trauma to people's heads. The Pescadero lady with the cast he shoves, the cop he steals the patrol car from (just like in T1), etc.

The Terminators in T1 and T2 always seemed the most dangerous when they were standing still. If a Terminator was advancing on his target (like in Tech Noir or the Galleria video arcade) then the Terminator will most likely just move you out of the way. But if you are an obstacle that makes the Terminator have to break his stride then you're dead. So I think that the T2 biker guys are lucky that they didn't end up like the punks at the beginning of T1. I feel like if it really was the first T-800 that he would have been walking out of that bar with body parts strewn about the room.

I think even Cameron himself acknowledged this on one of the DVD or laserdisc commentaries but chose to go shy away from the "moral quandary" as he put it of having a child's protector have murderous blood on his hands (as opposing to, you know, crippling and maiming blood, lol.)

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Because he felt bad for taking John away from Sarah.

He also ends all of his text messages with "for John" too. I wish I was making this **** up.

I wonder if deep down inside, the Terminator felt bad for killing all those wrong Sarah Connors too once he realized he found the right one, Now that's a movie I want to see.

That would explain why all the Terminators failed to killed Sarah Connor and John, deep down they knew that they would have to live an endless life with the guilt of killing an innocent mother and son, so they chose to be killed, since they can't self destroy.

 

[DiFabio]

I think even Cameron himself acknowledged this on one of the DVD or laserdisc commentaries but chose to go shy away from the "moral quandary" as he put it of having a child's protector have murderous blood on his hands (as opposing to, you know, crippling and maiming blood, lol.)

Yeah no ****, it's a movie. It's why seconds later he walks out of the bar with "bad to the bone" playing. He's the hero of the story.

It'd be like having Kyle Reese kill the cop that confronts him in the beginning of the movie instead of knocking them out like he does. It wouldn't work.

 

[DiFabio]

It also doesn't make much sense that future John didn't anticipate Skynet sending other Terminators. How the hell did Carl slip through?

In the first movie, he somehow knows and has enough time to send Kyle Reese back to protect his existence from the T-800.

In the second movie, he somehow knows and has enough time to send Kyle Reese and a reprogrammed T-800 back to protect his existence from the T-800 and T-1000.

Then he just never knew about all the other cyborgs Skynet sent after the fact? WTF? What happened. Every story till this one John has been being able to counter Skynet with a protector of some sort.

It's also a weird counter to the other T3 where Sarah dies in the 90s from leukemia while John lives on. Didn't they scatter her ashes over Guatemala?

 

[Khev]

Yeah no ****, it's a movie.

Yes sir and one we get to disagree on just like old times.

Now we just need to wait until a-dev and kara see it and can weigh in, lol.

 

[a-dev]

Yes sir and one we get to disagree on just like old times.

Now we just need to wait until a-dev and kara see it and can weigh in, lol.

At this rate I'll have absolutely nothing to say about it after I see it

 

[Khev]

Except that even knowing what happens can still be different than actually watching it play out. Like the opening which we thought was suspect until actually seeing the footage. So I'll be curious to learn which of the things we've been talking about has you going "yeah my opinion on that element hasn't changed" versus "okay now that I've seen how such and such played out I now feel this way..." and so on.

 

[jedibear]

Finally saw this today.

It wasn't as bad as Genysis, but....it wasn't great either. One could really sense the "too many cooks" vibe in this thing...it felt like several different movies were competing for attention in this and no one won out. I actually liked the parts that weren't a TFA-styled rebranding exercise. I found it amusing that while Miller and Cameron went to great pains to say this was the direct sequel to T2, many elements from T3 and TS were present here. I also had to chuckle after that opening scene, recalling how loudly Cameron objected to Fincher's choice with characters from Aliens in Alien3 and doing the exact same thing here. I think Cameron has blown his credibility pushing the last two Terminator movies and by the time his blue kitty space people movie sequels get here, no one is going to care.

Now what could have livened up the dynamic here...having John and Sarah have to help the new "target" stay alive and how that would mess with their heads.
What they gave us was a pretty confusing mess that served no other purpose than to reboot. Who could be interested in that? Judging from the weekend numbers, no one.

The part that I actually found interesting (and thought I'd really hate) was the whole Terminator/Sarah Connor dynamic. i wanted to see more of that. Both Schwarzenegger and Hamilton came alive during those scenes.

The two young ladies were both CW/Disney Channel caliber...no depth. Nothing stuck. The effects were well done in the first part of the movie (with the glaring exception of the Terminators rising out of the water..it looked flat and weird...almost cheap) but the whole last act with the planes and the dam was a muddy mess. Barely coherent, physics-defying action that was just boring.

Again, it played better then the last bad attempt, but this franchise is now barely on life support. As I mentioned in a post earlier, might be time to give the big screen a rest and take the Terminator concept to streaming. No familiar characters, just the Future SKYNET machine wars.

 

[Khev]

Yeah the Endos coming out of the water were shockingly bad. Not even as good as the T2 or T3 future war scenes so many years ago. I have to wonder if that wasn't a last minute addition that they barely had time to work on.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

It also doesn't make much sense that future John didn't anticipate Skynet sending other Terminators. How the hell did Carl slip through?

In the first movie, he somehow knows and has enough time to send Kyle Reese back to protect his existence from the T-800.

In the second movie, he somehow knows and has enough time to send Kyle Reese and a reprogrammed T-800 back to protect his existence from the T-800 and T-1000.

Then he just never knew about all the other cyborgs Skynet sent after the fact? WTF? What happened. Every story till this one John has been being able to counter Skynet with a protector of some sort.

John Connor to the Uncle Bob before sending him back in time, " Once you terminate the T-1000 and save me, you're termination must be immediately, so that Cyberdyne doesn't have access to future technology. Good bye, and good luck. Our present is in your hands."

Random resistance soldier after the T 800 is gone, "What if Skynet sends more than one Terminator since sending just one the first time to kill your mother didn't work, sir?"

 

[Wor-Gar]

What's the 3rd Best Terminator after T1 and T2?

 

[rjszar]

He's not a man! He's a machine!

The only reason the T-800s mission parameters change in T2 is because his programmed orders are to follow exactly what John says. People are saying that Carl is the first Terminator to succeed in it's mission, but we already saw what happens when a Terminator accomplishes it's mission . . . he lowers himself into a vat of molten lava. He breaks his programming and kills himself, he's not getting married and opening a ****ing quaint pizza shop.

WTF Khev.







I don't know, would he? He didn't rip the heart out of the Tech Noir bouncers chest. Like you said, he broke his hand. Didn't kill the guy in the phone booth, he threw him out of the way. He throttles Matt around without killing him instantly. He didn't kill officer William Wisher when he stole the cop car. In fact, he does things Uncle Bob does. In T2, there are tons of instances where the Terminator uses blunt force trauma to people's heads. The Pescadero lady with the cast he shoves, the cop he steals the patrol car from (just like in T1), etc. The biker bar scene is pretty intense. He breaks that guys arm and stabs him into the pool table and burns the other biker's hands and face on a grill. Worse than what the Terminator does in T1 with some of the random people he encounters.

He didn't viloate his programming in T2. He stated he can't self terminate so Sarah had to lower him into the vat.

I do believe part of the Terminator's programming is to be as inconspicuous as possible. There may be things standing in the way of it reaching its target which require it to dispose of them, but just killing a guy at a pay phone on the street or a bouncer in a club calls unnecessary attention to itself. Once the target is at hand, all bets are off.

 

[DiFabio]

John Connor to the Uncle Bob before sending him back in time, " Once you terminate the T-1000 and save me, you're termination must be immediately, so that Cyberdyne doesn't have access to future technology. Good bye, and good luck. Our present is in your hands."

Random resistance soldier after the T 800 is gone, "What if Skynet sends more than one Terminator since sending just one the first time to kill your mother didn't work, sir?"

That will always be the biggest plot hole to this entire series. If it’s not like Back to the Future where you fade out of existence when something changes or gets rewritten, then who the **** cares if the super computer you just beat sends back Terminators to kill your mom and younger self? You’re fine. Celebrate your victory, who cares about the other timeline.

How does Connor even know what Skynet is doing over at Skynet headquarters anyway? So Skynet’s defense grid is smashed, it’s defeated by Connor and his men and then what? They go in and investigate that, oh no, this log says that Skynet sent some Terminators back in time. How the **** did John know any of this **** and how did he have enough time to send back protectors or even know how to use Skynet’s time machine.

**** THIS FRANCHISE

He didn't viloate his programming in T2. He stated he can't self terminate so Sarah had to lower him into the vat.

I do believe part of the Terminator's programming is to be as inconspicuous as possible. There may be things standing in the way of it reaching its target which require it to dispose of them, but just killing a guy at a pay phone on the street or a bouncer in a club calls unnecessary attention to itself. Once the target is at hand, all bets are off.

He violated his programming. John tells him not to go, orders him not to go, and he’s grabbing the chain ready to commit Seppuku. Yeah, he didn’t press the button, but it’s his idea to die and he’s not resisting, he told Sarah what to do. He’s complicit in his own demise. Unless his orders from future John were specifically “you have to protect me until the T-1000 is destroyed”, ideally he should have hung around, no? It was one of his mission parameters.

He clearly broke his programming and had freewill. That’s what all this discussion is about. A Terminator that no longer has a mission isn’t going to help raise a family and have a start up drapery business, it’s going to choose a warrior death and DIE.