The Batman (June 25, 2021)

[Captain Clown]

Riddle-Gar

 

[Wor-Gar]

Riddle-Gar

Guilty...

Don't hate me because I'm... sexy.

 

[Captain Clown]

Jessica Chastain...

 

[TheBatman]

Besides Little Miss Sunshine, the only other movie I've seen this actor was The Girl Next Door from 2004.

 

[TheBatman]

He definitely played the part though. He reminded me of the Riddler from the Arkham Games, which was very well done.

 

[matticus]

View attachment 573784

He will be enjoying his prison stay.

 

[greygoose]

Surprisingly, it works.

 

[Alatar]

I‘m not going to pick this movie apart because that could be done to any movie… similar to the way a skillful attorney can decimate almost anyone’s testimony if they’ve a mind to…

Just a handful of quick hot takes, I guess:

I like and respect the movie overall. But...

I get the choice of the early cowl for year two Batman. But for me the cowl’s bulbous shape really harmed how menacing and badass Batman looks and feels. This Batman just did not feel physically menacing or imposing to me—like at all! I feel like Pattinson did a respectable job with the role, but the suit made it kind of feel to me like Batman was someone in cosplay, wearing a costume that was something more like in the movie Kickass. Again, I get that career-wise he’s only year two! But it was not appealing to me personally. And the raw physicality of the fight choreography just didn’t quite land with me. It was kind of weak for me. I was definitely not wowed. And once again, yes, he’s a young Batman—I know!

It felt to me like with the possible exception of Andy Serkis all of the major supporting actors outshone Bruce Wayne/Batman! Again, no fault of Pattinson, imho. That’s just how it worked out, I guess, for whatever reason. All actors gave either really solid or in some cases even downright excellent performances. But still it just felt a bit weird to me that Batman/Bruce got outshone by virtually everyone else.

The fusion of neo-noir, horror, and psychological suspense thriller genres was intriguing to see, just as a kind of thought experiment and fresh take for Batman. It held my interest. By the same token, I also don’t feel like it worked out quite as well in practice as it might have seemed on paper when they were planning it, and when writing the script, etc. Anyway, it was interesting but I don't feel like I need to see it again, at any rate.

Batman’s psychological epiphany at the end to choose to be motivated by hope versus vengeance to me felt a bit shoehorned in, but I can easily forgive or overlook that I guess.

Whenever I think about this movie, I still cannot get past this fact: we could have… should have!… instead had Ben Affleck’s Batman squaring off against Deathstroke with Arkham game-like battles in a kind of mental chess game against an opponent who is Batman’s mental rival plus having the advantage of being a metahuman to boot. I can’t say to myself that it doesn’t bug me still that we did not get that. Now that is my problem, and if others love The Batman I’m all good with that, and wish them well, and am happy for them. Truly. But this movie almost serves as a reminder of what I wish we had gotten instead. And that just is what it is for me.

 

[Wor-Gar]

the advantage of being a metahuman

This explains the above post.

But you have Marvel and Superman and Wonder Woman and every other comic book movie for such fantasies. I firmly believe Batman should be more grounded. I think that is the reason he is more popular and accessible than any other comic book hero turned live-action movie star.

 

[Alatar]

This explains the above post.

But you have Marvel and Superman and Wonder Woman and every other comic book movie for such fantasies. I firmly believe Batman should be more grounded. I think that is the reason he is more popular and accessible than any other comic book hero turned live-action movie star.

Well, actually that would Spider-Man, no? Who is a meta himself.

https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Spider-Man#tab=summary
https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Batman#tab=summary
I mean that doesn't take anything away from your main point, though.

I remember reading about 10 years ago that Spider-Man and Batman are the two most recognizable superheroes worldwide.

It's always an interesting problem of just how grounded versus fantastical to go with Batman, right? He certainly has had many metas in his rogue's gallery since at least the Silver Age. (Metahumans).

 

[Stront]

The West Batman trailer was great, especially the part where he takes on the machine gun fire LOL.

And totally agree with Wor-Gar on Zoe and her walk. Captivating. That type of walk ONLY works if the chick actually has the confidence and is sexy because she IS, not because she’s trying to be. It’s something that can easily turn into caricature. She pulled it off, every damn time. What a babe. 10/10 would betray my vow to dead parents for.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Well, actually that would Spider-Man, no? Who is a meta himself.

https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Spider-Man#tab=summary
https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Batman#tab=summary
I mean that doesn't take anything away from your main point, though.

I remember reading about 10 years ago that Spider-Man and Batman are the two most recognizable superheroes worldwide.

It's always an interesting problem of just how grounded versus fantastical to go with Batman, right? He certainly has had many metas in his rogue's gallery since at least the Silver Age. (Metahumans).

Batman definitely can go either way in the comics (in terms of meta characters), but I think his "strength" is that he's just a mortal man -- no superpowers -- so general audiences can relate more. Even Batman's most famous villains are not the meta ones -- Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, Riddler, Mr. Freeze, Two-Face...

I'm not sure those charts you posted tell the whole story. One megamovie does not make a character long lasting. Plus, Batman's been around 30 more years and still going. SpiderMan may be the "Batman" of Marvel but I suppose it's arguable who is more popular at any given time. Also, taking NWH out of the equation, Batman has two movies that did better than all other SpiderMan movies. One massive hit is usually an anomaly -- like Avatar. Would you say Avatar is more popular than Star Wars because one movie made so much more money?

 

[Wor-Gar]

But putting all that aside, my problem with metahumans is that on film they generally become indestructible rubber men that are impossible to destroy and therefore you lose drama and tension. If your hero can't be destroyed, then there's no tension. I never fear for Captain America. He'll always get up. But Tony... he died. That's the difference in a nutshell.

SpiderMan can never die... but it is possible to kill Batman (not Snyder's Batman though).

 

[Alatar]

Batman definitely can go either way in the comics (in terms of meta characters), but I think his "strength" is that he's just a mortal man -- no superpowers -- so general audiences can relate more. Even Batman's most famous villains are not the meta ones -- Joker, Penguin, Catwoman, Riddler, Mr. Freeze, Two-Face...

I'm not sure those charts you posted tell the whole story. One megamovie does not make a character long lasting. Plus, Batman's been around 30 more years and still going. SpiderMan may be the "Batman" of Marvel but I suppose it's arguable who is more popular at any given time. Also, taking NWH out of the equation, Batman has two movies that did better than all other SpiderMan movies. One massive hit is usually an anomaly -- like Avatar. Would you say Avatar is more popular than Star Wars because one movie made so much more money?

Fair points! Just the box office alone isn't definitive. But it is certainly a very strong measure. Although at the end of the day I think it's fair to say that Spider-Man is roughly about as popular as Batman.

I'm not sure how you're calculating that two Batman films made more than all Spider-Man movies combined... The Spider-Man franchise with 12 films (11 live action--and who knew there was a live action Spider-Man/MIB movie?) has made $8,258,518,734 whereas Batman with 26 films (12 live action and including movies like Joker and Catwoman where Batman doesn't appear) has made $6,799,186,401...

 

[Wor-Gar]

I'm not sure how you're calculating that two Batman films made more than all Spider-Man movies combined... The Spider-Man franchise with 12 films (11 live action--and who knew there was a live action Spider-Man/MIB movie?) has made $8,258,518,734 whereas Batman with 26 films (12 live action and including movies like Joker and Catwoman where Batman doesn't appear) has made $6,799,186,401...

Oh no, I didn't mean all combined. Just more at the boxoffice on release. Going by the lines, Batman has two films well over the 400,000,000 barrier while most SpiderMan movies seem to pile up around there.

 

[Alatar]

But putting all that aside, my problem with metahumans is that on film they generally become indestructible rubber men that are impossible to destroy and therefore you lose drama and tension. If your hero can't be destroyed, then there's no tension. I never fear for Captain America. He'll always get up. But Tony... he died. That's the difference in a nutshell.

SpiderMan can never die... but it is possible to kill Batman (not Snyder's Batman though).

???

Snyder's plan was for Bruce to sacrifice himself in either JL 2 or 3 (personally, I think it would have been the end of JL 2) to kill Darkseid, thereby saving Lois, and preventing the entire Knightmare timeline. But Bruce was definitely to die a la Final Crisis.

 

[Wor-Gar]

???

Snyder's plan was for Bruce to sacrifice himself in either JL 2 or 3 (personally, I think it would have been the end of JL 2) to kill Darkseid, thereby saving Lois, and preventing the entire Knightmare timeline. But Bruce was definitely to die a la Final Crisis.

Does not count unless it happened.

All that was shown, is Batman getting smacked again and again by Superman, slammed into concrete and cars, and just having a sore knee.

A 'smack' from Superman would result is a gelatin face.

 

[Spartan Rex]

Photo laden comprehensive article on the latest Batmobile:
https://www.hotcars.com/things-we-just-found-out-about-the-latest-batmobile/

 

[Alatar]

Oh no, I didn't mean all combined. Just more at the boxoffice on release. Going by the lines, Batman has two films well over the 400,000,000 barrier while most SpiderMan movies seem to pile up around there.

Of course, you could blame all this recent success for both SpiderMan and Batman on expanded theatrical markets and rise in ticket prices.

Uh... hmm! Well, okay... But the three highest grossing Spider-Man films made more than the three highest grossing Batman films. I mean Joker isn't really a Batman film per se, not even in spirit arguably, but it's in the same universe so I guess that's fine.

Joker $1,072,507,517.........NWH $1,889,919,856
TDKR $1,082,228,107........FFH $1,132,532,832
TDK $998,615,789..............SM3 $894,860,230
$3,153,351,413....................$3,917,312,918

 

[Alatar]

Does not count unless it happened.

All that was shown, is Batman getting smacked again and again by Superman, slammed into concrete and cars, and just having a sore knee.

A 'smack' from Superman would result is a gelatin face.

Yes, but Superman is obviously pulling his punches. He even warns Bruce to "Stay down! If I wanted it you'd be dead already!" At any point Superman could have defeated Batman in any number of ways. Superman was basically letting Batman tantrum himself out until he could eventually talk sense to him. He underestimated Batman with the Kryptonite, of course. But he did in Miller's TDKR as well, which among comics is regarded as a masterwork.

Although granted, Batman being thrown through the Batsignal () at the height he was at probably should have resulted in unconsciousness and serious injury. But we also don't know what sort of high tech Batman might have had inside the mech suit to protect from severe blunt force. Just saying. In this setting that is not far fetched at all.