The Book Of Boba Fett (December 2021)

[Khev]

This Boba Fett could be someone who has killed - indeed he does kill in this show. But the ''cold blooded'' description implies something that I did not see in this show nor can I believe this characterization would have exhibited in the past.

Just going only with what we see of this character in this current show (and not leaning on OT mystique, EU comics/novels, etc.) I would still say that we saw glimpses of a definite dark side here and there.

I mentioned him blasting the Nikto Riders. That's probably the best example of him being cold-blooded. Knowing that they very well likely weren't the real Tusken killers but he murdered them anyway, totally stone-faced while blasting them to bits just because he needed a murderous outlet for his revenge. Him blowing up the one assassin as a homicidal "eff you" even though it wasn't tactically advantageous to do so before questioning them was another example.

Then when they're interrogating the remaining assassin and the guy insults him and Fett says "you tried to kill me and we spare you and then you dare curse me..." seemed to me like the guy was potentially milliseconds away from also getting vaporized had Fennec not stepped in with the Rancor ruse. To me the inconsistency with him sometimes being quick to kill a fleeing man or prisoner (as he was ready to do on Cloud City when Chewie acted up) while other times being the one to try and hold Fennec back ("that was a little heavy handed, don't you think") showed me a guy that could very well have felt that he needed to make a real effort to remind both himself and his partner that they're trying to behave differently than how he did in the past where sometimes he's successful, sometimes not so much.

There was also his super callous reaction to senseless violence in the Sanctuary where Santo rips the Trandoshan's arm off and Fett practically chuckles about it as he coyingly says to Garsa "eh well you tried." That flippant response to public (and utterly senseless) violence did track, for me at least, with the guy who nodded in approval at Boushh's thermal detonator threat in ROTJ.

Did they succeed in making a seamless continuation of the guy we saw in the OT, particular the pre-SE version? Obviously not. But I definitely see indications throughout that he was at the very least a continuation of the Jango-ized/ESB:SE version (who didn't sound nearly as menacing as Wingreen.)

And if I'm wrong then remind me what any of us have been complaining about again?

I'm not trying to invalidate everybody that thinks this was a poor overall take on the character, your collective opinions based on what you saw and were hoping for are every bit as valid as mine, I was more just zeroing in on the notion that a cold-blooded killer can't smile, appear friendly, or have gleaming white teeth.

 

[Khev]

Why does Boba Fett look thinner than Mando in that shot?

They switched stuntmen that day, lol.

 

[jye4ever]

Just going only with what we see of this character in this current show (and not leaning on OT mystique, EU comics/novels, etc.) I would still say that we saw glimpses of a definite dark side here and there.

I mentioned him blasting the Nikto Riders. That's probably the best example of him being cold-blooded. Knowing that they very well likely weren't the real Tusken killers but he murdered them anyway, totally stone-faced while blasting them to bits just because he needed a murderous outlet for his revenge. Him blowing up the one assassin as a homicidal "eff you" even though it wasn't tactically advantageous to do so before questioning them was another example.

Then when they're interrogating the remaining assassin and the guy insults him and Fett says "you tried to kill me and we spare you and then you dare curse me..." seemed to me like the guy was potentially milliseconds away from also getting vaporized had Fennec not stepped in with the Rancor ruse. To me the inconsistency with him sometimes being quick to kill a fleeing man or prisoner (as he was ready to do on Cloud City when Chewie acted up) while other times being the one to try and hold Fennec back ("that was a little heavy handed, don't you think") showed me a guy that could very well have felt that he needed to make a real effort to remind both himself and his partner that they're trying to behave differently than how he did in the past where sometimes he's successful, sometimes not so much.

There was also his super callous reaction to senseless violence in the Sanctuary where Santo rips the Trandoshan's arm off and Fett practically chuckles about it as he coyingly says to Garsa "eh well you tried." That flippant response to public (and utterly senseless) violence did track, for me at least, with the guy who nodded in approval at Boushh's thermal detonator threat in ROTJ.

Did they succeed in making a seamless continuation of the guy we saw in the OT, particular the pre-SE version? Obviously not. But I definitely see indications throughout that he was at the very least a continuation of the Jango-ized/ESB:SE version (who didn't sound nearly as menacing as Wingreen.)


I'm not trying to invalidate everybody that thinks this was a poor overall take on the character, your collective opinions based on what you saw and were hoping for are every bit as valid as mine, I was more just zeroing in on the notion that a cold-blooded killer can't smile, appear friendly, or have gleaming white teeth.

Which goes back to a previous post of yours about his mind set.

They should’ve went full Mel Gibson with him and made him unhinged and unpredictable using violence or forgiveness as a means of achieving long term tactical advantages against his opponents.

 

[a-dev]

Just going only with what we see of this character in this current show (and not leaning on OT mystique, EU comics/novels, etc.) I would still say that we saw glimpses of a definite dark side here and there.

I mentioned him blasting the Nikto Riders. That's probably the best example of him being cold-blooded. Knowing that they very well likely weren't the real Tusken killers but he murdered them anyway, totally stone-faced while blasting them to bits just because he needed a murderous outlet for his revenge. Him blowing up the one assassin as a homicidal "eff you" even though it wasn't tactically advantageous to do so before questioning them was another example.

Then when they're interrogating the remaining assassin and the guy insults him and Fett says "you tried to kill me and we spare you and then you dare curse me..." seemed to me like the guy was potentially milliseconds away from also getting vaporized had Fennec not stepped in with the Rancor ruse. To me the inconsistency with him sometimes being quick to kill a fleeing man or prisoner (as he was ready to do on Cloud City when Chewie acted up) while other times being the one to try and hold Fennec back ("that was a little heavy handed, don't you think") showed me a guy that could very well have felt that he needed to make a real effort to remind both himself and his partner that they're trying to behave differently than how he did in the past where sometimes he's successful, sometimes not so much.

There was also his super callous reaction to senseless violence in the Sanctuary where Santo rips the Trandoshan's arm off and Fett practically chuckles about it as he coyingly says to Garsa "eh well you tried." That flippant response to public (and utterly senseless) violence did track, for me at least, with the guy who nodded in approval at Boushh's thermal detonator threat in ROTJ.

Did they succeed in making a seamless continuation of the guy we saw in the OT, particular the pre-SE version? Obviously not. But I definitely see indications throughout that he was at the very least a continuation of the Jango-ized/ESB:SE version (who didn't sound nearly as menacing as Wingreen.)


I'm not trying to invalidate everybody that thinks this was a poor overall take on the character, your collective opinions based on what you saw and were hoping for are every bit as valid as mine, I was more just zeroing in on the notion that a cold-blooded killer can't smile, appear friendly, or have gleaming white teeth.

Let me consult ajp to see if I'm allowed to agree with any of this.

Ajp, what say you to this. Were there in fact hints of the Boba Fett we expected to see, which we maybe overlooked because of his moments of inexplicable stupidity, hardly ever wearing his helmet and annoying distractions like the Vespa squad?

 

[Khev]

Which goes back to a previous post of yours about his mind set.

They should’ve went full Mel Gibson with him and made him unhinged and unpredictable using violence or forgiveness as a means of achieving long term tactical advantages against his opponents.

I would have been fine with that.

Let me consult ajp to see if I'm allowed to agree with any of this.

You bastard.



One other thing I liked about this show (Buffinator/Bravomite/Countless others: "oh good lord here we go..." lol) ties in with a recent post of yours IIRC in that you asked just what the heck the difference is between being a Crime Lord vs. being the Mayor. And interestingly enough I think that something the show took time to point out is that there actually is no difference! And that fact was something that Fett was not anticipating.

I think he pictured being "daimyo" as basically chilling on the throne like Jabba seemed to do, making sure that other bad guys didn't screw up the economy (particularly Fett's own protection fees/bribes/extortion revenue) or throw things into full blown chaos. Off the bad guys that won't play nice with him, collect royalties, let elected leaders handle the boring stuff and live the good life on his own terms.

But what he discovered was that the Mayor and chief Crime Lord were really one and the same. Random civilians were petitioning him to resolve totally trivial little one-off disputes that involved no illegal contraband or violence. He was probably thinking why aren't these people just going to the mayor? But as Qui Gon and Panaka once said many years ago "Tatooine is controlled by the Hutts" (crime bosses), not elected leaders, not Republic Peace Keepers (not even Jedi.) Even now as Mechanic Lady stated the New Republic still doesn't dare get involved with the Pykes, spice trades, or seemingly anything that would bring them down out of orbit. Jabba quite literally ran Tatooine and Fortuna was just another crime boss that paid tribute to the true holder of the crown who really replaced Jabba (Mayor Mok Shiaz.)

It wasn't until the end that it finally clicked with Fett when Drash basically said in a sense that the entirety of Mos Espa was his true HQ, not the palace, and that all the citizens were his subjects, not just a select few lesser crime lords or business owning "vassals." When he fought off the Pykes and drove them from the city and then suddenly had everyone bowing to him he said point blank to Fennec "I don't know if we're cut out for this," to which she replied "if not us then who?" In other words it was not his plan to be the actual ruler of Mos Espa, possibly even all of Tatooine, but that's what the Hutts were and that's where he ended up finding himself.

 

[ZE_501]

I mentioned him blasting the Nikto Riders. That's probably the best example of him being cold-blooded. Knowing that they very well likely weren't the real Tusken killers but he murdered them anyway, totally stone-faced while blasting them to bits just because he needed a murderous outlet for his revenge.

Weeelll....he knew they were all bad.



And they were aliens, not people.

 

[a-dev]

You bastard.

That's right, I've opened the gate to ajp's paddock.

Yousa in big doodo dis time!

 

[ajp4mgs]

Let me consult ajp to see if I'm allowed to agree with any of this.

Ajp, what say you to this. Were there in fact hints of the Boba Fett we expected to see, which we maybe overlooked because of his moments of inexplicable stupidity, hardly ever wearing his helmet and annoying distractions like the Vespa squad?

Short answer: No. Everything Fett did was motivated by either retribution, justice, or self preservation. Each one being typical anti-hero behavior; nothing cold or ruthless about any of it. But worse yet is that nothing demonstrated the elite proficiency that his reputation should've demanded.

Long answer: Killing the Nikto bikers was simply an anti-hero getting retribution and handing out justice for the crime of slaughtering the Tusken tribe. Fett obviously didn't give any credibility to Fennec's assertion that the Nikto bikers couldn't have been the culprits. We know this because it finally only hits him *afterwards* when Cad Bane tells him that the Pykes framed the bikers. Fett wouldn't be shown having the flashback in that Cad Bane moment if he had already assumed the Nikto clan might actually be innocent when he killed them.

The Boba Fett that we expected to see wouldn't have even waited to get Slave I in order to off those bikers in the first place. He already had a Tusken long rifle, and a bounty hunter of his renown would've been able to secure other weapons and supplies in order to track those bikers and pick them off from a perched position (like Fennec did in her introductory episode back in Season 1). And, ideally, Fett would've left one alive to interrogate so as to be sure no other guilty Nikto might be elsewhere.

His blasting of the Nikto bikers with Slave I would've been fine on its own, but the fact that Fennec pieced together their innocence based on such little information (while Fett was completely fooled based on seeing things with his own eyes) only goes to further show how inferior this version of Fett is. So I ask you: Does any of that jibe with the legendary and ruthless character you expected?

The same logic goes for the assassin that Fett used the rocket on. He told Fennec to take one alive for tactical purposes, and he knew he could count on her because she's the competent one of the two. The other assassins needed to be taken out no matter what just for self preservation. Hell, their mere presence alone almost got him killed when he fired point-blank range into the assassin shields and knocked himself on his ass.

He's a nice guy in the entire series. Plain and simple. His motive was almost exclusively justice. That's when he killed. That's also why he, as "crime lord," lowered the price of water and ended drug trafficking.

 

[jye4ever]

ajp ajp ajp!!!!

It’s…khev…..he….is…….praising………

the last episode….of….

Boba Tard.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Ah - Facccccccc!

 

[Khev]

Long answer: Killing the Nikto bikers was simply an anti-hero getting retribution and handing out justice for the crime of slaughtering the Tusken tribe. Fett obviously didn't give any credibility to Fennec's assertion that the Nikto bikers couldn't have been the culprits. We know this because it finally only hits him *afterwards* when Cad Bane tells him that the Pykes framed the bikers. Fett wouldn't be shown having the flashback in that Cad Bane moment if he had already assumed the Nikto clan might actually be innocent when he killed them.

A valid assumption but I think that that scene was only showing that he finally realized who had framed the Niktos, not that it was some big revelation that they had been framed.

 

[ajp4mgs]

A valid assumption but I think that that scene was only showing that he finally realized who had framed the Niktos, not that it was some big revelation that they had been framed.

Is it just an assumption, though? The Cad Bane reveal was to lead to Fennec sensing Fett respond so emotionally that a duel in that state would be a bad idea. So it wasn't played as an "ah ha!" moment of confirming suspicion, as that wouldn't add up at all. Rather, it was played as a moment of angst in realizing that the actual guilty party compounded the insult by fooling him as to who committed the crime.

If Fett had been suspecting that the Nikto gang might've been innocent, the Pykes were the only other faction who would've had any motive to slaughter the Tuskens. So it's not like Fett would need to think hard or turn into Sherlock Holmes to figure out that if it's not the Niktos, it'd *have* to be connected with the Pykes. I know that Fett was made dumb in this series, but come on!

There was no indication whatsoever that it was an unresolved matter; especially given how important it would be to the central character. He never gave any sign that this still needed true settling. Where in the series, or finale, did you pick out something different that brought you to such an alternate interpretation?

 

[Khev]

Is it just an assumption, though? The Cad Bane reveal was to lead to Fennec sensing Fett respond so emotionally that a duel in that state would be a bad idea. So it wasn't played as an "ah ha!" moment of confirming suspicion, as that wouldn't add up at all. Rather, it was played as a moment of angst in realizing that the actual guilty party compounded the insult by fooling him as to who committed the crime.

If Fett had been suspecting that the Nikto gang might've been innocent, the Pykes were the only other faction who would've had any motive to slaughter the Tuskens. So it's not like Fett would need to think hard or turn into Sherlock Holmes to figure out that if it's not the Niktos, it'd *have* to be connected with the Pykes. I know that Fett was made dumb in this series, but come on!

There was no indication whatsoever that it was an unresolved matter; especially given how important it would be to the central character. He never gave any sign that this still needed true settling. Where in the series, or finale, did you pick out something different that brought you to such an alternate interpretation?

When I say assumption I don't mean baseless assumption. Obviously I can't tell you that your interpretation is wrong because we're both basically describing what we think Fett was thinking in those moments without him actually confirming verbally one way or the other (which I'm actually very thankful for.) Fennec calls him out as being emotional but we certainly don't know which emotions he was feeling (you feel it was angst and I think it was anger) but for all we know you, me, and Fennec were wrong. Thankfully he had his freaking helmet on during that exchange and said very little for once, lol.

But a few episodes earlier when he and Fennec are in camp and he tells her about the Niktos killing the Tuskens and Fennec says that's unlikely he pauses ever so slightly (evidence to me that what she said registered) but since he was already committed to the satisfaction of murdering them he just moved on to discussing their raid on Jabba's palace. Then when he did later blast them all to smithereens he looked over at her as if to say "if you think I'm backsliding into my old ways I don't care, if you don't like it you can leave," to which she seemed to acknowledge and made sure to give him a visible head nod as if to say "I didn't say anything, we're cool."

I think that if they wanted to just foreshadow that the Niktos weren't the real killers without Fett himself suspecting as much then they could have just had Fennec silently furrow her brow suspiciously when he told her that they wiped out the tribe but not actually say it out loud. But the fact that she said it point blank and he stoically changed the subject told me that they wanted the audience to know that he knew but was going to hunt them down anyway. Even Cad Bane said "you already know it's true" to remind the audience that Fett had been hiding his suspicions all along (IMO anyway.)

And as an aside him blasting the Niktos right after Fennec suggested that they probably weren't the culprits actually did give us a present day glimpse of his famous penchant for "disintegrating" first, asking questions later, which was a nice callback to Vader's instructions in ESB.

I agree that the Pykes had the most obvious motive for retaliating against the Tuskens and that Fett most likely would have realized that but I could see him burying that assumption for multiple reasons. The first being that they really did cover their tracks so definitively that the only option he had for retaliation was to basically just start blasting every last member of the Syndicate with the hopes that he might just get lucky and kill the main culprit or have one of them confess. Not very conducive to the new life he was trying to lead with them feigning innocence and making him out to be a murderous madman. That notion would have probably infuriated him to such a degree that he would have had little choice but to bury any plans for revenge when he had no other specifics as to which Pyke gave the order or who specifically carried out the attack (Pyke soldiers, bounty hunters, some combination thereof or what have you) that he could definitively take his revenge against. The other reason I could see him burying the realization that it was most likely the Pykes was because it was his fault!

And that too is a big reason why I believe that deep down he assumed it was them. He told Fennec that the Tuskens took him in but then he got them massacred. Well if it was the Niktos they certainly didn't have any way of knowing that he was in league with that Tusken tribe but the Pykes from the train that he let go certainly did. So him taking ownership of the tribes' death told me that yeah, he almost certainly knew who was behind it but he couldn't bring himself to fully face that just yet (other than that offhand remark to Fennec) so he was just going to go Nikto hunting to let off some steam.

But as I said above for all he knew the Niktos and Pykes worked together to wipe out the Tuskens (the Pyke boss confessed to his face that they'd already met with the Niktos and even paid them) but he didn't even bother leaving any alive to question. So at least for me I got ample evidence that he could still be a cold-blooded killer who had a strong affinity for disintegrations even while trying to actively follow a different path.

TLDR: Fennec told him that she didn't think it was the Niktos, he blamed himself for the Tuskens getting massacred (implying that he knew that the raid on the train that he initiated led to the Pykes getting revenge on his tribe), Cad Bane called out that Fett must have known all along.

 

[ajp4mgs]

When I say assumption I don't mean baseless assumption. Obviously I can't tell you that your interpretation is wrong because we're both basically describing what we think Fett was thinking in those moments without him actually confirming verbally one way or the other (which I'm actually very thankful for.) Fennec calls him out as being emotional but we certainly don't know which emotions he was feeling (you feel it was angst and I think it was anger) but for all we know you, me, and Fennec were wrong. Thankfully he had his freaking helmet on during that exchange and said very little for once, lol.

But a few episodes earlier when he and Fennec are in camp and he tells her about the Niktos killing the Tuskens and Fennec says that's unlikely he pauses ever so slightly (evidence to me that what she said registered) but since he was already committed to the satisfaction of murdering them he just moved on to discussing their raid on Jabba's palace. Then when he did later blast them all to smithereens he looked over at her as if to say "if you think I'm backsliding into my old ways I don't care, if you don't like it you can leave," to which she seemed to acknowledge and made sure to give him a visible head nod as if to say "I didn't say anything, we're cool."

I think that if they wanted to just foreshadow that the Niktos weren't the real killers without Fett himself suspecting as much then they could have just had Fennec silently furrow her brow suspiciously when he told her that they wiped out the tribe but not actually say it out loud. But the fact that she said it point blank and he stoically changed the subject told me that they wanted the audience to know that he knew but was going to hunt them down anyway. Even Cad Bane said "you already know it's true" to remind the audience that Fett had been hiding his suspicions all along (IMO anyway.)

And as an aside him blasting the Niktos right after Fennec suggested that they probably weren't the culprits actually did give us a present day glimpse of his famous penchant for "disintegrating" first, asking questions later, which was a nice callback to Vader's instructions in ESB.

I agree that the Pykes had the most obvious motive for retaliating against the Tuskens and that Fett most likely would have realized that but I could see him burying that assumption for multiple reasons. The first being that they really did cover their tracks so definitively that the only option he had for retaliation was to basically just start blasting every last member of the Syndicate with the hopes that he might just get lucky and kill the main culprit or have one of them confess. Not very conducive to the new life he was trying to lead with them feigning innocence and making him out to be a murderous madman. That notion would have probably infuriated him to such a degree that he would have had little choice but to bury any plans for revenge when he had no other specifics as to which Pyke gave the order or who specifically carried out the attack (Pyke soldiers, bounty hunters, some combination thereof or what have you) that he could definitively take his revenge against. The other reason I could see him burying the realization that it was most likely the Pykes was because it was his fault!

And that too is a big reason why I believe that deep down he assumed it was them. He told Fennec that the Tuskens took him in but then he got them massacred. Well if it was the Niktos they certainly didn't have any way of knowing that he was in league with that Tusken tribe but the Pykes from the train that he let go certainly did. So him taking ownership of the tribes' death told me that yeah, he almost certainly knew who was behind it but he couldn't bring himself to fully face that just yet (other than that offhand remark to Fennec) so he was just going to go Nikto hunting to let off some steam.

But as I said above for all he knew the Niktos and Pykes worked together to wipe out the Tuskens (the Pyke boss confessed to his face that they'd already met with the Niktos and even paid them) but he didn't even bother leaving any alive to question. So at least for me I got ample evidence that he could still be a cold-blooded killer who had a strong affinity for disintegrations even while trying to actively follow a different path.

TLDR: Fennec told him that she didn't think it was the Niktos, he blamed himself for the Tuskens getting massacred (implying that he knew that the raid on the train that he initiated led to the Pykes getting revenge on his tribe), Cad Bane called out that Fett must have known all along.

When Fett takes blame for the Tuskens dying, he's referring specifically to the Nikto bikers. He explicitly says to Fennec (exact quote): "Instead, I got them massacred by Nikto speed bikers." That's when Fennec responds with the "highly unlikely" assertion which he doesn't follow up on. When Fett gets his ship back, he says that he needs to settle scores before doing anything else. He kills the Nikto bikers without interrogation (contrary to his methodology with the Night Wind assassins) and then pivots to his new career ambition. Matter resolved.

If Fett suspected the Pykes by way of Fennec's assertion, he knew they operated out of Mos Eisley before he took out Bib Fortuna. More importantly, he knew the syndicate leader who called the shots and exactly where he did business from. But instead of trying to exploit this advantage, Fett showed no interest in the Pykes until after their connections to the mayor (and his order to assassinate Fett) became the impetus for their war. Boba wasn't going after the Pykes until the mayor went after Boba. And by that point, Fett was no longer even sure that the Pykes still even operated out of Mos Eisley. Because he didn't keep tabs on them; he didn't care.

Lastly, Cad Bane simply says, "You know it's true" without any "already" qualifier. It's much the same as Vader telling Luke "you know this to be true" when Luke certainly hadn't been previously aware of Vader being his father.

I know that none of this is going to change your interpretation, and that's perfectly fine with me, but I want the context to be presented as clearly and accurately as possible. And I appreciate you clarifying how you reached your interpretation and point of view.

 

[Khev]

Oh okay, I had forgotten that he specifically stated that he got the Tuskens massacred by Nikto speed bikers so thanks for pointing that out.

He probably was assuming that it was the bikers up until Fennec suggested otherwise then. I stand by the rest though.

For good measure I just rewatched the first exchange between Fett and Cad Bane and am even more convinced that Boba suspected the Pykes all along but just didn't have enough specifics to know who to act against.

But Bane called out the head of the Tatooine syndicate specifically which didn't cause Fett to so much as flinch.

But like you said you've got your take and I've got mine. And I know that even if I'd swayed you on this particular topic that it still wouldn't change your overall opinion of the show or how Fett was handled.

 

[Asta]

 

[a-dev]

View attachment 563255

The song that comes to my mind right here

 

[Asta]

 

[greygoose]

View attachment 563264

Luke didn't even have the decency to do the throwing.

 

[Johnny Code]

Boba Fett arc :
I lost my armor.
I want my armor.
Now I got my armor back.
Helmet off.