The Book Of Boba Fett (December 2021)

[Garlador]

Agreed. As Wor-Gar already noted, the subtlety found in the George Lucas style of utilizing his inspirations and paying homage is often missing with his successors.

Boba Fett's aesthetic was inspired by The Man With No Name, but it was applied with enough creativity and subtlety that even some fans of the Leone trilogy didn't notice the nod until it was pointed out in supplementary material. The silhouette of Boba Fett is very uniquely Star Wars. But contrast that with the silhouette of Cad Bane which is basically Lee Van Cleef with tubes.

I think there's more than just a fine line between "homage" and "pastiche." Lucas stayed on that right side of that broad line far more often than not, IMO. And I attribute that to his creativity and imaginative capacity inherently keeping him from being too on-the-nose imitative. Those qualities are not nearly as evident in his apprentice. It's unfortunate because a sense of "freshness" had so much to do with SW getting so popular in the first place.

It should be pointed out that George Lucas helped create Cad Bane. It was even his idea to push him more into a western style than what was originally pitched.

 

[ZE_501]

It should be pointed out that George Lucas helped create Cad Bane.

He also created Dexter Jettster and Jar Jar Binks so ...

 

[Wor-Gar]

Have we ever had an all alien scene like that in SW before?

Maybe Jabba sparring with Boushh before we knew it was Leia.

 

[Wor-Gar]

It should be pointed out that George Lucas helped create Cad Bane. It was even his idea to push him more into a western style than what was originally pitched.

He also created Dexter Jettster and Jar Jar Binks so ...

Lucas was a lot better at this when he was younger, that's for certain.

 

[ajp4mgs]

It should be pointed out that George Lucas helped create Cad Bane. It was even his idea to push him more into a western style than what was originally pitched.

The only conceptual background info on Cad Bane's creation that I'm aware of is that George vetoed using a bounty hunter from the EU (Durge) and told Filoni to come up with something more along the lines of the Leone westerns.

That's a far cry from saying, "Hey, make this guy a complete analog to a Lee Van Cleef character."

But if George did indeed guide the aesthetic and persona more so than Filoni, then I have to believe that a part of him just stopped caring during or after the PT. Enough of a part that he abandoned subtlety and imagination in favor of overtly derivative associations.

 

[Khev]

But if George did indeed guide the aesthetic and persona more so than Filoni, then I have to believe that a part of him just stopped caring during or after the PT. Enough of a part that he abandoned subtlety and imagination in favor of overtly derivative associations.

It did seem that after the PT George himself get did more and more obvious with the genre callbacks. TCW almost got to the point where a few minutes into each episode you could go "oh this is the Seven Samurai episode," "this is the Body Snatchers episode," "this is King Kong/Godzilla," etc.

A quote from a review of the first Matrix film that I've always remembered said that it "borrows liberally from other sources but always with style." That was a great way to put it IMO. I don't mind if the inspirations of any given movie or show are obvious as long as they do it in a cool way.

 

[ajp4mgs]

It did seem that after the PT George himself get did more and more obvious with the genre callbacks. TCW almost got to the point where a few minutes into each episode you could go "oh this is the Seven Samurai episode," "this is the Body Snatchers episode," "this is King Kong/Godzilla," etc.

A quote from a review of the first Matrix film that I've always remembered said that it "borrows liberally from other sources but always with style." That was a great way to put it IMO. I don't mind if the inspirations of any given movie or show are obvious as long as they do it in a cool way.

That Matrix reference encapsulates the ideal approach, IMO. Gotta make it your own, at least stylistically, and that's the key!

I just don't know how much direct oversight George had during TCW. For example, Henry Gilroy once said that Lucas gave him a list of "do not touch" characters, and that Boba Fett was on the list. Then, they apparently convinced George to let Boba be used (sigh).

There are other examples of Lucas giving Filoni wide latitude that I'm aware of, so I don't normally attribute much direct input from George. I have viewed it as a much more detached supervisory role than his approach to the films. I could be wrong, of course.

 

[Mondragon]

I think both Bane and Choclate Kroissant came from older concept art.

I think the team is set up for the last ep, and we got every cameo we are going see.
From what they've shown the only two new figures I'd get out of BoBF are both not surprisingly nods to old concept art

Chocolate Kroissant

And Cad Bane

The only conceptual background info on Cad Bane's creation that I'm aware of is that George vetoed using a bounty hunter from the EU (Durge) and told Filoni to come up with something more along the lines of the Leone westerns.
That's a far cry from saying, "Hey, make this guy a complete analog to a Lee Van Cleef character."

Apparently that's exactly what he did - requested using Lee Van Cleef as inspiration, and changed the name to "Cad Bane,"

At Lucas's request, inspiration for the character was taken from actor Lee Van Cleef's performances in the films The Good, the Bad and the Ugly and For a Few Dollars More.[60][14][69] - Cad Bane wiki

 

[a-dev]

That Matrix reference encapsulates the ideal approach, IMO. Gotta make it your own, at least stylistically, and that's the key!

I just don't know how much direct oversight George had during TCW. For example, Henry Gilroy once said that Lucas gave him a list of "do not touch" characters, and that Boba Fett was on the list. Then, they apparently convinced George to let Boba be used (sigh).

There are other examples of Lucas giving Filoni wide latitude that I'm aware of, so I don't normally attribute much direct input from George. I have viewed it as a much more detached supervisory role than his approach to the films. I could be wrong, of course.

I wonder what kind of compartmentalizing George does with Star Wars now. Does he truly accept anything Disney have done in his ''real'' canon? And thus, when they come to him for advice I wonder is he just humoring them while thinking to himself ''I just don't care anymore, it's too far gone, it's already nothing like what I would do so what difference will my input on this one minutiae make?''

 

[ajp4mgs]

Apparently that's exactly what he did - requested using Lee Van Cleef as inspiration, and changed the name to "Cad Bane,"

Again, telling Filoni to take inspiration from the character in the Leone films is not the same as saying: "make him pretty much exactly like Lee Van Cleef." If Lucas did indeed get that lazy and uninspired by the time of TCW, then shame on him. That's my take on it.

But I don't know if it was more like telling the Boba Fett designers to take inspiration from The Man With No Name, and then approving how McQuarrie and Joe Johnston had done it (with enough subtlety to note the inspiration, but still with a uniquely original design overall).

When Filoni found the old concept artwork of that character with the hat on, was that something that George specifically directed him toward? Or did Filoni find it on his own and embraced the approach of an overt analog that George just approved? I don't know the answer; if you do, then please share the details; I'd appreciate it.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I wonder what kind of compartmentalizing George does with Star Wars now. Does he truly accept anything Disney have done in his ''real'' canon?

On some level I think he probably has enough affinity for Filoni to approve of those projects that he's involved with. But I have a hard time picturing him considering any of it part of his own "canon" story.

For example, I just can't see Lucas watching Ezra Bridger and thinking, "Yeah, okay, that guy was a Jedi-level Force user who interacted with exiled Yoda and was around during the OT era."

I'd love to ask him so many questions, and this would be one of the things I'd sneak in an inquiry about.

 

[Sassafras]

I can definitely understand being underwhelmed by episode 6 if you're not going to be swayed by the nostalgia factor of Luke training a kid of Yoda's species in scenes mimicking ESB. That's why I qualified my post by saying, "for me."

As someone who has *loved* the Dagobah training scenes for 40 years, believe me, episode 6 hit the spot... for *me.*

As someone who impatient with the crossing of that nebulous line of "great nod to past character/scene" to "oh gawd can't they do any better than rehash previous work" it actually makes me feel better if others view something like that as a quality sequence they feel good about. Respect for other points of view is appreciated too.

I actually think a reasonable job was done; not great, but good. For one thing Luke isn't quite right; dunno if this deep fake tech will ever be 100%. On the plus side Grogu opening an eye to look for a snack lol; and learning to use the Force to stand and jump was reasonable - dealing with training this tiny creature. Finally it was a beautiful environment; new.

And it wasn't a 1 to 1 Dagobah sequence. IMO if the creation of Grogu and the dyamic with a Mandalorian is genius, that was proceeded by the introduction of Yoda. To me Dagobah is one of the finest sequences in Star Wars. It's the kind of scenes you get when everything comes together.

I just want Mandalorian to stay about Mando& co. The minute it was obvious the show was a hit, outside this board the cries went up "I want Sabine Wren! Han Solo! Ahsoka! etc. " I DONT want the Mandalorian stuffed with rehash. The ST would have been a lot better if they had ditched the nostalgia overload, by the end. Less is more. They could do another series - and guess the Ahsoka show is it - if they wanna do a CW sequel.

One thing I don't get is why it was important to Lucas that Grogu was trained. I don't see anything wrong with a Force sensitive being not having training, or not wanting to be a Jedi for that matter. Qui-gon does warn little Anakin that it's a hard life. So I suppose Luke isn't the first to give a potential student a choice.

 

[ajp4mgs]

As someone who impatient with the crossing of that nebulous line of "great nod to past character/scene" to "oh gawd can't they do any better than rehash previous work" it actually makes me feel better if others view something like that as a quality sequence they feel good about. Respect for other points of view is appreciated too.

I actually think a reasonable job was done; not great, but good. For one thing Luke isn't quite right; dunno if this deep fake tech will ever be 100%. On the plus side Grogu opening an eye to look for a snack lol; and learning to use the Force to stand and jump was reasonable - dealing with training this tiny creature. Finally it was a beautiful environment; new.

And it wasn't a 1 to 1 Dagobah sequence. IMO if the creation of Grogu and the dyamic with a Mandalorian is genius, that was proceeded by the introduction of Yoda. To me Dagobah is one of the finest sequences in Star Wars. It's the kind of scenes you get when everything comes together.

I just want Mandalorian to stay about Mando& co. The minute it was obvious the show was a hit, outside this board the cries went up "I want Sabine Wren! Han Solo! Ahsoka! etc. " I DONT want the Mandalorian stuffed with rehash. The ST would have been a lot better if they had ditched the nostalgia overload, by the end. Less is more. They could do another series - and guess the Ahsoka show is it - if they wanna do a CW sequel.

One thing I don't get is why it was important to Lucas that Grogu was trained. I don't see anything wrong with a Force sensitive being not having training, or not wanting to be a Jedi for that matter. Qui-gon does warn little Anakin that it's a hard life. So I suppose Luke isn't the first to give a potential student a choice.

The Dagobah training *is* Star Wars to me. After it was decided that there would be follow-ups to the '77 film, those scenes became the touchstone for virtually everything else that happened with Luke and some of the most important themes in the saga. I can't even put into words how much I love those sequences!

As for why it'd be important to Lucas for Grogu to be trained, I'm guessing that it's because they told him that Grogu would be using the Force. I think that's where George wanted it to be clear that deliberately using the Force with purpose and control requires training, whereas merely being Force sensitive is benign enough not to matter on its own.

 

[Sassafras]

She's the one living person in the galaxy who repeatedly fought side by side with his mother and yet didn't share any details!

lol

IMO she was just there as an advertisement and to avoid an interesting conversation between Mando and Luke, where Mando learns more about his issues wielding the Darksaber. Probably being saved for Mando Season 3. So Ahsoka can pop in again and be mysterious.

I'm just never gonna get past the Anakin I knew from films getting a padawan, at all, in CW.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Lucas rubber stamps alot of junk now. I wouldn't rely on his "steering" always being on target.

 

[jye4ever]

The Dagobah training *is* Star Wars to me. After it was decided that there would be follow-ups to the '77 film, those scenes became the touchstone for virtually everything else that happened with Luke and some of the most important themes in the saga. I can't even put into words how much I love those sequences!

As for why it'd be important to Lucas for Grogu to be trained, I'm guessing that it's because they told him that Grogu would be using the Force. I think that's where George wanted it to be clear that deliberately using the Force with purpose and control requires training, whereas merely being Force sensitive is benign enough not to matter on its own.

Look at Finn

No training = Friend zoned sap lol

 

[ZE_501]

IMO she was just there as an advertisement and to avoid an interesting conversation between Mando and Luke, where Mando learns more about his issues wielding the Darksaber. Probably being saved for Mando Season 3. So Ahsoka can pop in again and be mysterious.

I'm just never gonna get past the Anakin I knew from films getting a padawan, at all, in CW.

CW Anakin is a young man and when he occasionally gets angry you see the darkness in him. PT Anakin is a whiny teenager and when he gets angry he pouts.

 

[JAWS]

Dude this is so well put I can't like this post enough, lol. Though it's also a little depressing because on one hand I want to mention the MCU in the same breath as those other films you listed, and if we're just talking about the experience of going to the movies then the MCU definitely had a few moments that rivaled those other films and yet...I agree at the end of the day there's a certain emptiness or lack of weightiness about the MCU when compared to say SW or LOTR. I wouldn't say "soulless" but it still feels lacking in a way that's hard to articulate.

I can't put my finger on it either. There is something lacking in the MCU. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy them but they are ultimately just fluff.

Not a single MCU film I would put in my top 50 films of all time. Maybe The Avengers or The Winter Soldier could sneak in there, but I would have to go through my ranking system to figure that out.

I would put The Dark Knight in my top 50. So I am not a comic snob

Like I said I dont think any MCU film comes close to SW or ESB. Most of them are ROTJ in quality. There are some really good ones but they lack that certain something.

I am sure some of it has to do with my age but they just don't hold up as well as the other box office classics do.

Can't agree. I'm happy not to be able to agree. Good MCU movies are easily more watchable to me than bad Star Wars. Matter of fact I can't even remember the last time I specifically sat down to watch Star Wars at its best - probably been a good few years since I watched Empire. It's a classic and I've filed it away as such. It's the MCU's time. Perhaps the day will come when it will no longer be the MCU's time - but it is not this day!

I can't argue with this. I guess my thing is that I love SW. I agree that most of Marvel is better made than the PT. But I can more easily watch the PT more often than a Marvel film. I think that has to go to my love of the SW universe.

I would put RO in there with the other SW titles.

Solo and the ST feel more like average Marvel movies in terms of feel.. So, I have to assume it's the GL factor of his imagination just clicks with mine. Cause the PT are some bad movies, but they just hit that soft spot I have for SW.

Again, there is just an emptiness to the MCU.. I think it's just the fact that they all feel so similar in tone. A tone that I think can be found in the ST which is why I will never find them as rewatchable as the other SW movies.

But the PT are an Anomaly. They are bad movies that I can rewatch. Most of the time a film I can watch over and over is what I consider an all-time classic. JAWS, ROTLA, JP, SW, ESB, Goodfellas, Pulp Fiction, The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly, etc... I don't see any of the Marvel films joining those ranks.

I see through JAWS's bull****. JAWS is just angry because his boy Hulk was neutered. I see his pain.

Talking about bad SW feels huge and blah blah...gtfo.

98% SW is f****** Tatooine and deserts.

I am sure there is truth to this

Outside of Mando S1/S2 the MCU became my modern SW it provided me the most CONSISTENT entertainment value even more so than the ST which I actually enjoyed but those 3 SW movies can’t compete pound for pound with the thrill and excitement those 27 MCU movies brought to the masses.

Had it not been for Mando S1/S2 saving SW the brand was being left in the dust by the MCU.

NWH was the 27th movie and it still connected with fans no other franchise can say that not SW not Bond not anything.

Is the MCU perfect?

Is SW!

What Marvel did will never be done again. From IM to Endgame, they were pretty damn consistent. Only a bad movie or two in the bunch. Solid entertainment for sure.

Will we see people dissecting any of the MCU films years from now the way SW is still being dissected today?

Hell, I can't remember the last time I saw an Endgame video appear on my YouTube suggestions.

Do the films have the staying power with the fans as the OT and hell, even the PT have had?? Hell even khev has cooled his jets on them and those movies were made for him and all the other Cap fetish lovers out there.

Time will tell. I don't know that they can in this world of "The next shiny new thing"





I cant believe I am defending the PT over the MCU
For the record I really like/love

IM
TIH
Avengers
The Winter Soldier
Civil War
Infinity War


None of them are OT to me. Not even close.

 

[JAWS]

The Dagobah training *is* Star Wars to me. After it was decided that there would be follow-ups to the '77 film, those scenes became the touchstone for virtually everything else that happened with Luke and some of the most important themes in the saga. I can't even put into words how much I love those sequences!

I've said this before.

Mark Hamill deserved an Oscar for that film. He is acting on a soundstage against a puppet. And he pulls in off 100%

 

[ZE_501]

@JAWS the OT is a fairy tale whereas the MCU is something else, perhaps films more of their time, being grounded in a relatively mundane and more self-aware, quippy world than Star Wars. Note that the same post-modern meta-sensibilities crept into the ST ... you know my position on those films but outside of that, they were just a little too "nudge-nudge wink-wink we're STAR WARS" to have that feel of innocence the OT had at its core.