The Dark Knight Rises *SPOILERS*

[yongkykun]

I agree about Nolans inability, and I agree about how really, its like TDK never existed to a large extent. But thats the price we pay for Ledger topping himself, as horrid as it sounds.

I wouldnt be satisfied with just a mention of the joker. I wouldnt be satisfied until Joker was on screen. Hell, even if they just did a CGI or something, anything. a Cameo, but joker needed to be on screen or not exist in TDKR.

It sucks massively but it doesnt spoil the film to me. But like i said, TDKR isnt the film that I bet was originally conceived when Ledger was alive.

I can imagine him in his cell with fellow inmates asking why he's not coming out when the cells doors were opened and he answers "What's the point?"

 

[thenammagazine]

I agree about Nolans inability, and I agree about how really, its like TDK never existed to a large extent. But thats the price we pay for Ledger topping himself, as horrid as it sounds.

I wouldnt be satisfied with just a mention of the joker. I wouldnt be satisfied until Joker was on screen. Hell, even if they just did a CGI or something, anything. a Cameo, but joker needed to be on screen or not exist in TDKR.

It sucks massively but it doesnt spoil the film to me. But like i said, TDKR isnt the film that I bet was originally conceived when Ledger was alive.

No, it wasn't. Despite the BS lies that TDKR was already mostly written before TDK was finished, Nolan's already stated that the Joker's story was to be told in the sequel to TDK. It's why he was just a plot device in TDK and not the story.

 

[MasterSafara]

The way it turned out is Joker was just another defeated villain.

 

[CelticPredator]

In this series, he was.

People seem to forget that this series isn't the comics.

Which is why I hated ASM so much. WHO GIVES A ____ IF IT'S CLOSER TO THE BOOKS. A dull movie, is a dull movie. And it was dull on it's own merits.

Unless your comic is a one shot, accuracy isn't important. Every comic writer does his own take on the character anyway...so who cares.

 

[thenammagazine]

The way it turned out is Joker was just another defeated villain.

And apparently weaker than Scarecrow. It also makes all that witty dialogue Joker had absolutely meaningless. He wound up just being another punk talking ____ and not the epic antagonist Nolan says he was supposed to be.

 

[MasterSafara]

I personally loved Christopher Nolan's trilogy story. I just wish they either would have been all rated R for an even darker angle of story-telling or the next Batman story (if and when there is one) is rated R.

 

[MasterSafara]

And apparently weaker than Scarecrow. It also makes all that witty dialogue Joker had absolutely meaningless. He wound up just being another punk talking ____ and not the epic antagonist Nolan says he was supposed to be.

Why do you say weaker than Scarecrow?

 

[Fernandofan08]

No, it wasn't. Despite the BS lies that TDKR was already mostly written before TDK was finished, Nolan's already stated that the Joker's story was to be told in the sequel to TDK. It's why he was just a plot device in TDK and not the story.

Exactly. Which is half why Nolan was reluctant to even do the third film. Pivitol actors death has had a knock on effect to the series.

The plan for Joker was much larger, but because the actor died thats it, Jokers story was over. Cant blame Nolan for it, can only blame the man himself, but it shouldnt affect the opinion on the film, its just life.

See, TDKR felt like it was the fourth film, that a film is missing bridging TDK and TDKR, but it doesnt affect my judgement on TDKR, its a superb film and theres many thinks I like about it, many things I like about the performances. Im not comparing TDKR to TDK or BB, just like I never compared the first two.

Its a trilogy, but I see them like, well not like its one directly following the other like Star Wars or something. Cant explain it really, but each does feel like a different tone to the other. Its disjointed in a way but its not. Think of it like 3 comics continuing a same general story, but written or drawn by someone slightly different.

They all work very well but none of them have a continuing identical theme through the films.

 

[Fernandofan08]

And apparently weaker than Scarecrow. It also makes all that witty dialogue Joker had absolutely meaningless. He wound up just being another punk talking ____ and not the epic antagonist Nolan says he was supposed to be.

Well no, he didnt. Ledger died so the story couldnt be continued. Theres a difference between not doing the character because the actor didnt want to come back, and the actor topping himself so theres no way or chance to do what the second film intended.

So the question is, should a 3rd film have been made in your opinion, and in anyones opinion?

 

[RyanSD]

So the question is, should a 3rd film have been made in your opinion, and in anyones opinion?

Yes, it should've if that was the intent. The character is bigger than the actor.

 

[thenammagazine]

Why do you say weaker than Scarecrow?

How many times did he escape over the course of the 3 films? He was still loose when TDKR ended.

Exactly. Which is half why Nolan was reluctant to even do the third film. Pivitol actors death has had a knock on effect to the series.

The plan for Joker was much larger, but because the actor died thats it, Jokers story was over. Cant blame Nolan for it, can only blame the man himself, but it shouldnt affect the opinion on the film, its just life.

See, TDKR felt like it was the fourth film, that a film is missing bridging TDK and TDKR, but it doesnt affect my judgement on TDKR, its a superb film and theres many thinks I like about it, many things I like about the performances. Im not comparing TDKR to TDK or BB, just like I never compared the first two.

Its a trilogy, but I see them like, well not like its one directly following the other like Star Wars or something. Cant explain it really, but each does feel like a different tone to the other. Its disjointed in a way but its not. Think of it like 3 comics continuing a same general story, but written or drawn by someone slightly different.

They all work very well but none of them have a continuing identical theme through the films.

I disagree. Something like this that might potentially destroy the future of the franchise should be looked at with the bigger picture in mind. Heath would've wanted the show to go on. Not be stopped. Honestly, JGL could easily doubled as Heath and Joker (and many of us thought he was gonna), and is easily good enough to have carried the role through TDKR. Unfortunately, Nolan just couldn't deal with it and TDKR pays the price (though really TDK since it's now disjointed).

 

[MasterSafara]

How does that make Joker weaker than Scarecrow?

 

[thenammagazine]

How does that make Joker weaker than Scarecrow?

Joker's not nearly as powerful of a presence in the films now. He was only in a single film, while Scarecrow bridges all three.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Joker is the reason Dent went psycho. If it wasn't for him, some of the significant events in TDKR wouldn't have happened. Just because Nolan didn't spell it out in spaghettios doesn't mean that the films are now "disjointed."

 

[MasterSafara]

Still has nothing to do with it. Joker wasn't in all three for a reason and you know that.

 

[thenammagazine]

Joker is the reason Dent went psycho. If it wasn't for him, some of the significant events in TDKR wouldn't have happened. Just because Nolan didn't spell it out in spaghettios doesn't mean that the films are now "disjointed."

But it was so insignificant that it could've been Maroni who caused Dent to go crazy. For such a key factor in the franchise, there was ZERO mention of it in TDKR when discussing Dent's death. Even between those who knew the truth. And despite being the main catalyst for the Dent Act. Even when Bane read Gordon's confession. NO JOKER. So what should've been a key aspect in TDKR was played not down to a whisper, but literally erased.

 

[MasterSafara]

There's no need to bring up the Joker in this one.

 

[ZaCHw117]

But it was so insignificant that it could've been Maroni who caused Dent to go crazy. For such a key factor in the franchise, there was ZERO mention of it in TDKR when discussing Dent's death. Even between those who knew the truth. And despite being the main catalyst for the Dent Act. Even when Bane read Gordon's confession. NO JOKER. So what should've been a key aspect in TDKR was played not down to a whisper, but literally erased.

Maroni isn't going to strap Dent and Dawes to a chair and make Batman decide which one to go after....

Batman wasn't in Gordon's confession either. It was all about Dent.

 

[Enthus]

Maroni isn't going to strap Dent and Dawes to a chair and make Batman decide which one to go after....

Batman wasn't in Gordon's confession either. It was all about Dent.

As it should have been. It was a speech about Dent's truth, on Dent Day.

 

[thenammagazine]

As it should have been. It was a speech about Dent's truth, on Dent Day.

If memory serves, Bane didn't read Gordon's confession on Dent Day, he read it after.

ZaCH, wasn't Batman mentioned in the confession as saving Gordon's son?