The Dark Knight Rises *SPOILERS*

[intothevoid]

If by rival you mean stomp it's brains out, I agree.

In addition to Shawshank, Titanic and Lord of the Rings also has more uplifting moments. Oh and Shindler's list, especially with that music.

The pit prison with Bruce is child's play in comparison. CHILD'S PLAY.

It's spelt Schindler BRO!

Spoiler

Henceforth carrying the subtitle: Ra's Al Ghul, saviour of Jews

If any of those films had more uplifting moments, i'd remember them... but i'm drawing a blank

Apart from Shawshank - which btw I mean it COULD be more uplifting, but I'd have to watch it a few more times to have a fair comparison. I doubt i'll be watching Shawshank 5 more times anytime soon
And another one that for me is up there is Life is Beautiful

 

[DiFabio]

Oops.

"Shindler's List", sounds like a parody. How did I manage to do that?


Look at Khev's post for more uplifting moments.

 

[intothevoid]

Oops.

"Shindler's List", sounds like a parody. How did I manage to do that?


Look at Khev's post for more uplifting moments.

Edited my post

 

[Khev]

For genre films there's also Gandalf charging down to Helm's Deep, Brody shooting the air tank, E.T. making the bikes fly above the cars and Han Solo shooting down Vader's wingman.

 

[DiFabio]

You're all clear, Khev, now let's blow up Void and go home!

 

[Khev]

"Yeah...."

 

[Voorhees27]

For genre films there's also Gandalf charging down to Helm's Deep, Brody shooting the air tank, E.T. making the bikes fly above the cars and Han Solo shooting down Vader's wingman.

You were doing so well before you furthered with nerdy films.

 

[Platty]

This is bullcrap we all know the most uplifting moment in movie history is Ja Ja reuniting the gungans with the people of naboo.

You all think yous so smarty. You think your brains so big.

 

[DiFabio]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyBlOe2cT1Y[/ame]

 

[batfan08]

I kind of agree with SOLIDSNAKE and Void. There's something about it that is inspirational. For one thing, the guy has a broken back, rebuilds his strength as fast as he can, injures his back again, regains his strength, injures his back again, and finally, he makes the jump. To me, it wasn't just the physical challenges (though, if this guy can recover from a broken back, and multiple injuries following, I'll be damned if that doesn't make me feel inspired to leave the movie and get my ass on a treadmill), but the spiritual challenges as well. This is a little boy who was never able to grow up. He dedicated his life to an idea he had when he was eight years old and he watched his parents die in front of him.

I think that's part of the reason why he went into such a tailspin over Rachel. She didn't just represent a chance at a future, but she was one more connection to the past that had been severed (not to mention that he had already had so much taken from him). His climbing from the well was the little boy who fell finally reaching the point where he could grow up. The ending reinforces this. It seems to me like this was the moment when he said "Alright, I'll give myself to this city once more, but, if I survive this, I want to have a life; I want to be happy."

 

[intothevoid]

I kind of agree with SOLIDSNAKE and Void. There's something about it that is inspirational. For one thing, the guy has a broken back, rebuilds his strength as fast as he can, injures his back again, regains his strength, injures his back again, and finally, he makes the jump. To me, it wasn't just the physical challenges (though, if this guy can recover from a broken back, and multiple injuries following, I'll be damned if that doesn't make me feel inspired to leave the movie and get my ass on a treadmill), but the spiritual challenges as well. This is a little boy who was never able to grow up. He dedicated his life to an idea he had when he was eight years old and he watched his parents die in front of him.

I think that's part of the reason why he went into such a tailspin over Rachel. She didn't just represent a chance at a future, but she was one more connection to the past that had been severed (not to mention that he had already had so much taken from him). His climbing from the well was the little boy who fell finally reaching the point where he could grow up. The ending reinforces this. It seems to me like this was the moment when he said "Alright, I'll give myself to this city once more, but, if I survive this, I want to have a life; I want to be happy."

 

[DiFabio]

He dedicated his life to an idea he had when he was eight years old and he watched his parents die in front of him.

No way. This is what I HOPED the Nolan Batman would be, but it's not. That might be the Burton Batman, or the Arkham Batman or other interpretations of Batman but it's definitely not Nolan's.

I WISH he dedicated his life to the idea when he was 8 or 10 in these films but that's just not the case. He's scared and lost from the time the murders occur to when he's a college student. Even Ra's says that when he found him that he was lost. He's not even angry until the Joe Chill trial when he tries to shoot him. It's only until Rachel gives her little speech/rant about justice and seeing decadence first hand at Falcone's does he dedicate himself to anything. And even then "dedication" is a strong word for someone who planned to give it up from the very beginning and did give it up in the end.

There was no vow, there was no commitment, there wasn't a bed side prayer to symbolically avenge his parents death. Batman in these films was always a temporary thing unfortunately, all the way back to Batman Begins. It was created to be a temporary symbol to inspire Gotham to do what was right, not a vengeance filled promise to his late parents. Gotham is a much more important entity than Thomas and Martha Wayne in this series. Gotham and Rachel drive Bruce's decisions, not his parent's. Though Thomas Wayne's ideals for the city play a big part in Wayne's actions, in Begins anyway. But still, that's the city.



Everything else is spot on in your post though, especially about Rachel and the well. However, I think TDKR is more about embracing and accepting your fear instead of overcoming it in Batman Begins. In Batman Begins Bruce is told to "not be afraid" and that "it's alright" while in TDKR, the message is completely different. He has to be afraid to "maka da climb".

 

[intothevoid]

No way. This is what I HOPED the Nolan Batman would be, but it's not. That might be the Burton Batman, or the Arkham Batman or other interpretations of Batman but it's definitely not Nolan's.

I WISH he dedicated his life to the idea when he was 8 or 10 in these films but that's just not the case. He's scared and lost from the time the murders occur to when he's a college student. Even Ra's says that when he found him that he was lost. He's not even angry until the Joe Chill trial when he tries to shoot him. It's only until Rachel gives her little speech/rant about justice and seeing decadence first hand at Falcone's does he dedicate himself to anything. And even then "dedication" is a strong word for someone who planned to give it up from the very beginning and did give it up in the end.

There was no vow, there was no commitment, there wasn't a bed side prayer to symbolically avenge his parents death. Batman in these films was always a temporary thing unfortunately, all the way back to Batman Begins. It was created to be a temporary symbol to inspire Gotham to do what was right, not a vengeance filled promise to his late parents. Gotham is a much more important entity than Thomas and Martha Wayne in this series. Gotham and Rachel drive Bruce's decisions, not his parent's. Though Thomas Wayne's ideals for the city play a big part in Wayne's actions, in Begins anyway. But still, that's the city.



Everything else is spot on in your post though, especially about Rachel and the well. However, I think TDKR is more about embracing and accepting your fear instead of overcoming it in Batman Begins. In Batman Begins Bruce is told to "not be afraid" and that "it's alright" while in TDKR, the message is completely different. He has to be afraid to "maka da climb".

Agree with most of this, but in a way Batman Begins is also about learning to embrace your fear, have control over it. 'Embrace your worst fear'

At no stage is he told that he needs to lose his fear completely. But he loses the subtlety of that message and by TDKR he's lost his fear of death totally. And he lands himself in the pit, until he re-learns the lesson of his past - why do we fall? - embracing his fear, using it to fuel him.

 

[DarthBakura]

For genre films there's also Gandalf charging down to Helm's Deep.

Personally, I've always liked the climb up Mount Doom.

 

[batfan08]

Inception happened. Just because he didn't make the bedside vow when he was a child, that doesnt mean he wasn't thinking about it. The seeds of the idea for Batman were planted the moment Joe Chill squeezed the trigger. I think "it's temporary" was young Bruce trying to convince himself. We saw what happened when Batman stopped, he was a shell.

Rachel was a chance for Bruce Wayne to thrive, but he was always Batman. When Batman stopped existing, there was nothing; a crippled ghost roaming the halls of Wayne Manor. Bruce Wayne didn't grow up until he climbed out of the pit.

 

[DiFabio]

Agree with most of this, but in a way Batman Begins is also about learning to embrace your fear, have control over it. 'Embrace your worst fear'

At no stage is he told that he needs to lose his fear completely. But he loses the subtlety of that message and by TDKR he's lost his fear of death totally. And he lands himself in the pit, until he re-learns the lesson of his past - why do we fall? - embracing his fear, using it to fuel him.

Well, I thought when he is exposed to the Bats in the cave he over comes his fear of them. It's not just embracing because at first (if I remember correctly) it looks like he's going to have a panic attack from the mere site of bats. This happened before at the monastery when they're hitting his face.

But then he over comes it. The fear is gone. It would have to be considering he becomes what he feared, that was the point. He does get those feelings of anxiety again but that turns out that it's just the effects of the fear toxin (that he recognizes from the monastery), not actually his fear.

And he's certainly told not to be afraid and that everything is alright. Thomas Wayne, Gordon, Alfred, all father figures.


In TDKR, you're right, in order to climb the pit he has to have fear. This fear is not being able to save Gotham though, not his own life. I mean technically, he does fear for his life but that's only because it's the cliched "I'm/he's the only one that can save the city". In his mind, he's the key to Gotham's survival. If he dies failing to make the climb, then the city is done.


But yeah, either way, Gotham is definitely the most important entity in the series. That's what motivates the character, not his parents.


For a future film I want to see Gotham AS the enemy and his parents be the focal point. Thomas and Martha should be the main motivator, not the city. Bruce Wayne shouldn't love or adore Gotham, he should despise it, it took his parents. There's something wrong with it as far as he's concerned.

If there wasn't, Batman wouldn't exist. In most mediums, Gotham isn't a sparkling utopia, if anything it's a decaying dystopia. That's why I didn't really like how the Nolan films portrayed it, as this great city that's worth saving. Metropolis is that clean city and it goes with Superman as a character. Batman is dark and conflicted and Gotham should match that. It SHOULD be "beyond saving", that's the point of Batman. He's there to stop the criminal element, the element that gave birth to him, not clean up the city. If anything, saving someone from losing their parents is more important than Gotham as a whole.

 

[intothevoid]

Inception happened. Just because he didn't make the bedside vow when he was a child, the seeds of the idea for Batman were planted the moment Joe Chill squeezed the trigger. I think "it's temporary" was young Bruce trying to convince himself. We saw what happened when Batman stopped, he was a shell. Rachel was a chance for Bruce Wayne to thrive, but he was always Batman. When Batman stopped existing, there was nothing; a crippled ghost roaming the halls of Wayne Manor. Bruce Wayne didn't grow up until he climbed out of the pit.
M

Yeah

The Bruce didn't grow up idea is prominent - they actually mirror that with the musical que of the choir boy voice

In Begins if you watch it again, notice how the boys voice (when they show his parents dying) gets frozen on that note, and that note drones in the background for a good few minutes

Bruce literally gets frozen in time in that moment

This is heavily revisited in TDKR, and fittingly the moment Bruce finally grows up is when 'Batman' is martyred - you hear that same voice return, again it's stretched out - except this time it moves on and we get the full on Batman theme

 

[DiFabio]

Inception happened.

Just because he didn't make the bedside vow when he was a child, that doesnt mean he wasn't thinking about it. The seeds of the idea for Batman were planted the moment Joe Chill squeezed the trigger.

But you can't say he dedicated himself to it when he was a kid. That's all I'm saying. You're right with this latest post, but he didn't dedicate himself to jack **** when they were murdered. That's the part of your post that I had a problem with.

That child actor that plays young Bruce, all he did was portray fear and confusion. That whole line John Blake has about "feeling that anger in your bones" isn't even evident in Batman Begins, not like other interpretations where the Batman persona is born the moment Bruce experiences loss, which turns into vengeance.

This,

Vengeance is what separates the Nolan Batman from most interpretations of the character. That stupid speech about justice with Rachel is proof of this.

Rachel was a chance for Bruce Wayne to thrive. When Batman stopped existing, there was nothing; a crippled ghost roaming the halls of Wayne Manor. Bruce Wayne didn't grow up until he climbed out of the pit.

Agreed.

 

[Sachiel]

Batman is dark and conflicted and Gotham should match that. It SHOULD be "beyond saving", that's the point of Batman.

I think the films do show this.

Take the ending: Bruce saved Gotham from being turned to ash and the city now has the symbol he set out give it, but he still passed on the mantle of Batman to Blake. Bruce Wayne may have moved on, but the story still continues for Gotham.

It's not exactly the "Batman standing on a rooftop overlooking Gotham, always ready to stop crime" ending that a lot of people were hoping for, but it is similar. Gordon and Robin will continue the "war on crime".

 

[CelticPredator]

So much to think about. I better take note.