The Dark Knight Rises *SPOILERS*

[Wor-Gar]

82 WAS PHENOMENAL! are you crazy?...Star Trek II, The Thing, Blade Runner, Mad Mad II The Road Warrior, Rocky III, Firefox,etc

Starting in May...

Conan the Barbarian
Rocky III
Star Trek II
Firefox
The Thing
Blade Runner
The Wall

October to December was pretty cool too.

First Blood
Creepshow
48 Hours
The Toy
The Dark Crystal

The Thing and Road Warrior ROCKED! (thought Road Warrior was 1981, you sure it was '82?)

Rambo was good.

I didn't like Blade Runner that summer. Took me some time to get it.

Rocky 3 was amusing, Star Trek 2 and Conan, meh.

Creepshow, The Toy, Dark Crystal....I wouldn't have even mentioned.

More movies than I remember at the time.

 

[thenammagazine]

The Thing and Road Warrior ROCKED! (thought Road Warrior was 1981, you sure it was '82?)

Rambo was good.

I didn't like Blade Runner that summer. Took me some time to get it.

Rocky 3 was amusing, Star Trek 2 and Conan, meh.

Creepshow, The Toy, Dark Crystal....I wouldn't have even mentioned.

More movies than I remember at the time.

Just shows your young age. Every movie devilof mentioned was a hit.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Just shows your young age. Every movie devilof mentioned was a hit.

Not so young, I was around back then... saw alot of those in the theater. Not sure how you qualify a "hit" -- makes $1 or more than it's cost, is that a "hit"? A "hit" to me means its successful and popular. I remember most everyone I knew back then thought Creepshow, The Toy and Dark Crystal were horrible. That said, we did see them in the theater so they did get our money.

Pretty sure Blade Runner was considerd a flop in the summer too. Cable viewings gave it life.

 

[jye4ever]

I'm all for an extended cut of TDKR on DVD but if that happens it makes me question Nolan's integrity for allowing a technical reason (Imax run time) to take precedence over a cohesive story.

 

[thenammagazine]

Not so young, I was around back then... saw alot of those in the theater. Not sure how you qualify a "hit" -- makes $1 or more than it's cost, is that a "hit"? A "hit" to me means its successful and popular. I remember most everyone I knew back then thought Creepshow, The Toy and Dark Crystal were horrible. That said, we did see them in the theater so they did get our money.

Pretty sure Blade Runner was considerd a flop in the summer too. Cable viewings gave it life.

Ford made Blade Runner a hit coming off of Empire and The Toy (Jackie Gleason and Richard Pryor) was HUGE! I remember seeing it with my family twice to a packed house both times. Dark Crystal was a Henson flick so of course, that had people attending as well. Creepshow I'll give you, though it had a hardcore cult following even back then with King and Romero attached.

 

[CelticPredator]

What makes this a good movie?

Certainly not the Villain (who sounds like ass excrement hitting a synthesizer microphone)

Certainly not the plot/plots.

Certainly not the Pittsburgh Steelers.

Certainly not the secondary (and mostly unnecessary) characters and their horrific acting.

Certainly not bad extras chanting nonsense.

Certainly not the editing (unless cramming as many ideas, themes and plots as you can and then speeding through them is highly regarded)

Certainly not the awkward cuts.




Is it Catwoman? Robin Blake? Do they make this film what it is? Is it the action? Transformers has tons of mind numbing action, is it a good movie?


I see a crappy villain (that is neither likable or despicable), I see a rushed script (which was probably the very first draft) and an ending that was probably created as they went along filming (they probably didn't reveal the end of the script to cast members because they were still writing it).


Nolan did it for the $$$. Warner Bros. was like "yo, C-Nol, give us another movie bro, we'll pay you up front" and he was like "I dunno . . . eh, sho".

Remember, this was the man that had to be convinced that Scarecrow should wear a mask, Batman should have a cape, that Catwoman is a worthy character to introduce and that Bane should be the main villain. God knows what Bane was before he became Bane.

He wanted to make some revolution/war/Howard Hughes/Tale of two Turds/whatever crap he was thinking about during the story process. Instead he made a Batman film with those themes while throwing a bunch of comic references in for good measure.

Or maybe he wanted to make a nice conclusion to Batman/Bruce Wayne's story but just ****ed up.

Flowed on a visceral ****ing level.

I wasn't talking to you at first. You said it wasn't a bad movie. You said you were disappointed, and didn't enjoy it too much. My point was to Devin. Cynical butthole.

We've had decent discussions about this flick. There's problems. But it's still, at it's core a good movie. It has character development (I don't give a **** about the comics, and I never ever will), it has a decent script, that's bogged down by issues, but overall, not a BAD movie. It has acting that's above average to most films today (sans a few actors, and acting)

Why is everyone so hellbent on attacking THIS movie, rather then something like Amazing Spider-Man? A soulless cash in, with no real thought put into it? Why go after a film, that wasn't stupid (No matter what you say about plot holes and bull****, the movie isn't stupid. It has stupid things inside it, but that doesn't make it stupid). I just don't get it.

 

[thenammagazine]

Flowed on a visceral ****ing level.

I wasn't talking to you at first. You said it wasn't a bad movie. You said you were disappointed, and didn't enjoy it too much. My point was to Devin. Cynical butthole.

We've had decent discussions about this flick. There's problems. But it's still, at it's core a good movie. It has character development (I don't give a **** about the comics, and I never ever will), it has a decent script, that's bogged down by issues, but overall, not a BAD movie. It has acting that's above average to most films today (sans a few actors, and acting)

Why is everyone so hellbent on attacking THIS movie, rather then something like Amazing Spider-Man? A soulless cash in, with no real thought put into it? Why go after a film, that wasn't stupid (No matter what you say about plot holes and bull****, the movie isn't stupid. It has stupid things inside it, but that doesn't make it stupid). I just don't get it.

I don't think it flowed much at all, let alone on a visceral level. The movie was more convoluted than TDK which is why most of us are hoping for a director's cut that fills some of the gaping plotholes.

 

[DiFabio]

I'm all for an extended cut of TDKR on DVD but if that happens it makes me question Nolan's integrity for allowing a technical reason (Imax run time) to take precedence over a cohesive story.

That and the fact that he's always had this stance against "extended cuts".

He's always been adamant about the final theatrical version of his films being THE directors cut. He's stated this a bunch of times.

That and the whole idea that he "only films and uses what is necessary". I've always thought that was bull**** too way back with TDK. Every director has footage and scenes that are left on the cutting room floor.




TDKR extended stuff doesn't concern me. There are a few scenes from Pittsburgh that I'd like to see that were cut (the tunnel Batpod/The Bat sequence, Catwoman going down the stairs etc.) as well as New York (Batman flying down into the crowd, Foley getting hit by the Tumbler).


I'd rather see Ledger as the Joker behind the scenes and deleted scenes from TDK though. Those things were sorely missing from the blu ray release in 2008. You know they're sitting on a treasure cove with that stuff.

 

[CelticPredator]

No, it flowed on a visceral level. I was talking emotional wise, rather then plot wise.

All his movies are like that. They're less on story, and more on the emotion felt in the moment. That's why I enjoy his movies mostly.

Like I said, I'm not going to call this movie perfect. No movie is. It's got problems, and I can easily name them for you. But the movie isn't bad. At all.

The reason simply is....we know what a bad movie is. It's Transformers 2, it's Jack and Jill, it's AvP-R....it's a film that doesn't try in any way to make any effort whatsoever to be a good movie. It doesn't try. It says **** it, and goes.

When you watch a movie like The Dark Knight Rises, you can tell feel that Nolan didn't throw it out in a week. While some would say that, I would disagree. Nolan put a lot of time into this film. And while he made some slip ups, it still works as a movie, maybe not the movie everyone wanted, but it works as a pretty fun summer blockbuster.

One that is better then most (cept The Avengers) that came out this year.



I just think there are worse films to be going after with such hate then TDKR. And I think calling the film bad is really sad, and shows how cynical today's film audience is. They don't really appreciate movies any more. They don't respect the time put into them.

Even if they don't work....they treat them like they were thrown together in a week.

Watch any of Uwe Boll's movies. That is what a real bad movie is. Shoddy, unfinished, rushed and done without any real effort.

This film, is a flawed but still good movie. I stand by that. And always will.

 

[RyanSD]

I would think the reason people are more critical of TDKR is because the 2 films that came before it, by the same creative team, were considered to be the best of the genre by many. The bar was held high, and for many, it didn't come close. (most) Everyone wanted this movie to be as good the previous two films, and close the trilogy successfully.

ASM was a reboot to a franchise whose last film was almost universally hated.

 

[thenammagazine]

No, it flowed on a visceral level. I was talking emotional wise, rather then plot wise.

All his movies are like that. They're less on story, and more on the emotion felt in the moment. That's why I enjoy his movies mostly.

Like I said, I'm not going to call this movie perfect. No movie is. It's got problems, and I can easily name them for you. But the movie isn't bad. At all.

The reason simply is....we know what a bad movie is. It's Transformers 2, it's Jack and Jill, it's AvP-R....it's a film that doesn't try in any way to make any effort whatsoever to be a good movie. It doesn't try. It says **** it, and goes.

When you watch a movie like The Dark Knight Rises, you can tell feel that Nolan didn't throw it out in a week. While some would say that, I would disagree. Nolan put a lot of time into this film. And while he made some slip ups, it still works as a movie, maybe not the movie everyone wanted, but it works as a pretty fun summer blockbuster.

One that is better then most (cept The Avengers) that came out this year.



I just think there are worse films to be going after with such hate then TDKR. And I think calling the film bad is really sad, and shows how cynical today's film audience is. They don't really appreciate movies any more. They don't respect the time put into them.

Even if they don't work....they treat them like they were thrown together in a week.

Watch any of Uwe Boll's movies. That is what a real bad movie is. Shoddy, unfinished, rushed and done without any real effort.

This film, is a flawed but still good movie. I stand by that. And always will.

If by "emotional wise" you mean confusion and disappointment, I hear ya.

 

[CelticPredator]

That and the fact that he's always had this stance against "extended cuts".

He's always been adamant about the final theatrical version of his films being THE directors cut. He's stated this a bunch of times.

That and the whole idea that he "only films and uses what is necessary". I've always thought that was bull**** too way back with TDK. Every director has footage and scenes that are left on the cutting room floor.

Actually, I think this is true. He has many scenes in his films that really could be taken out, and the film could flow better. TDKR is a fine example of that. Now, not exactly sure what could be axed...but I think that's one of his issues. He doesn't allow scenes to evolve into something else. He sticks by the script, and films that.

Not saying he doesn't allow improv, but a lot of cool stuff that I've done in my flicks have come out of someone suggesting something, and we run with it. That little thing could change the entire film.

Plus, he always has the worst side characters. Imagine how much better the TDK chase scene would be without that ranting police officer.

 

[CelticPredator]

If by "emotional wise" you mean confusion and disappointment, I hear ya.

I wasn't confused at all.

This is probably the most basic and simplest Nolan film to date.

Taila wants to destroy the city of Gotham to finish the job Ras Al Goul started, all while destroying Bruce Wayne in her revenge.

Not that interesting. Could've been better. But not confusing. You don't even hate the movie Namster. You've said exactly what I was talking about. You recognize it's a good movie, just not great, and incredibly, INCREDIBLY flawed.

And I'm with you, I do love ****ing with the Nolanites, but there needs to be a balance here.

 

[CelticPredator]

What the hell is ICP?

I, CP. ......

 

[RyanSD]

Plus, he always has the worst side characters. Imagine how much better the TDK chase scene would be without that ranting police officer.

I said to myself before seeing TDKR that as long as there is no character as bad as Gordon's co-pilot in that scene, it'll be a good movie.

Low and behold, opening scene "I'M CIA!!!"

Something I noticed about Nolan's style that became really apparent in Inception was that the way he makes movies is he films for the scene. By that I mean he sees what his ultimate vision for a particular scene is and films that, regardless of whether or not its cohesive to what came before or after it in the film. The pacing and editing of this film I think are a consequence of that style.

 

[CelticPredator]

Right. And that's his style.

Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. With Inception, I thought it worked perfectly, because each scene is like it's own universe, when they're in the dreams. So you can focus on that one character, rather then jumping all over the place trying to keep track of them.

Which is what happened near the end of TDKR. And while, it let up after the final chase began, it was still clunky.

He makes it work, but not all the time.

 

[thenammagazine]

I wasn't confused at all.

This is probably the most basic and simplest Nolan film to date.

Taila wants to destroy the city of Gotham to finish the job Ras Al Goul started, all while destroying Bruce Wayne in her revenge.

Not that interesting. Could've been better. But not confusing. You don't even hate the movie Namster. You've said exactly what I was talking about. You recognize it's a good movie, just not great, and incredibly, INCREDIBLY flawed.

And I'm with you, I do love ****ing with the Nolanites, but there needs to be a balance here.

The confusion comes in how such gaping plotholes can be ignored. And it's the very decisions Nolan has the characters make, that make it a poor Batman movie. As I've said before, it's a good movie, just not a very good Batman movie. I firmly believe that it's his poor choices with Wayne as a character, that has me disliking Bruce Wayne and wanting to see Blake in the cowl because I know Blake will be the Batman we've all been waiting for.

 

[jye4ever]

I agree, the movie needs to be better stitched.

 

[DiFabio]

Actually, I think this is true. He has many scenes in his films that really could be taken out, and the film could flow better. TDKR is a fine example of that. Now, not exactly sure what could be axed...but I think that's one of his issues. He doesn't allow scenes to evolve into something else. He sticks by the script, and films that.

Not saying he doesn't allow improv, but a lot of cool stuff that I've done in my flicks have come out of someone suggesting something, and we run with it. That little thing could change the entire film.

Plus, he always has the worst side characters. Imagine how much better the TDK chase scene would be without that ranting police officer.

Well, I gotta give his film editor credit. I don't know his name but the actual script is just as crazy as the final film. I don't see how the guy pieced it together, especially during the middle with the cement construction/Bane/Heinz field/Liberation of Gotham sequence. It's just like after the hospital scene in TDK except it's throughout the entire film. There's never breathing room or any point where you can get intimate with anything that goes on. I've *****ed and moaned about this before but the best example of this is the "Batman must come back moment" with Bruce and Gordon. It's just terrible how quick that's tossed away.

We're here, now we're there, here's this theme, now we're onto this plot, this character has a monologue, here's a montage. This isn't what it appears to be, now it's this. I'll admit that the first sewer fight is appropriate though. I'm surprised they didn't have Bane give Batman a one hitter quitter and then move on.

The rest of the film is all over the place though. The Nolans and Goyer even said that they incorporated every idea they had for the film and injected it into the story. Is that a good thing? I'm not so sure. I bet if they held back and trimmed it down it would have been better. There's just too much **** going on.

Secondary characters are great in the proper context. I had faith in Foley, he actually has an interesting arc. But just like with most secondary characters in these Batman films he's swept away and I don't even care. He competes with too many ideas and characters to give me anything more than "that guy that hates Batman at first then dies".


As for being confusing, it didn't really confuse me. Then again, I've been following the film since it's conception. Everything is laid out and explained mostly but it's quite the cluster ****. Just because a statement or a reason is explained, doesn't make what occurs good or proper. That's the biggest thing I see, "you missed it", "you don't understand". I see a ton of complaints about how convulted most of the things are I just think people have a hard time explaining them, not that they "missed the point". There's too many points in the movie.

 

[jye4ever]

DiFabio, you're a big guy, you can take the pain.