The Dark Knight Rises *SPOILERS*

[Fernandofan08]

Well that is true, sort of. But than I will be more specific than. Frank Miller era - Today Batman. But no matter what era you look at...Batman never quits at the end. Never.

Batman of the future. Bruce quits. His body is too old, he doesnt have the speed or abilities he had before. He then leaves terry the mantle.

Dark Knight Rises. Bruce Quits. He is physically broken. Falling 3 flights, shot in the right side of the stomach, shoe-knifed by joker in the left side of his stomach, residual concussion brought by jokers crowbarring. The fall when Scarecrow set Bats on fire injured him too. He is also psychologically broken. He then leaves Blake the mantle.

 

[thenammagazine]

Batman of the future. Bruce quits. His body is too old, he doesnt have the speed or abilities he had before. He then leaves terry the mantle.

Dark Knight Rises. Bruce Quits. He is physically broken. Falling 3 flights, shot in the right side of the stomach, shoe-knifed by joker in the left side of his stomach, residual concussion brought by jokers crowbarring. The fall when Scarecrow set Bats on fire injured him too. He is also psychologically broken. He then leaves Blake the mantle.

In both those stories (The Dark Knight Returns and Batman Beyond), Wayne was old and had been Batman for many, many decades. This Wayne hasn't been Batman for near as long nor been through near as much. Don't forget, the Joker card at the end of BB means TDK happened almost immediately after. So after Joker, he retires for 8 years, which means no physical damage during that time, then comes back for a few months as Batman before quitting again. Not the same thing whatsoever.

 

[csutkakoma]

Just like Paul Kersey...You mean you want strictly a vigilante film with a guy that never quits

I want a movie, a Batman movie with the comicbook Batman not some guy who want to live a normal life and want to give up the cape and cowl with every opportunity. Yeah Nolan's vision is nothing like the Comic Batman. He has his own version and I just don't like it.

 

[csutkakoma]

Batman of the future. Bruce quits. His body is too old, he doesnt have the speed or abilities he had before. He then leaves terry the mantle.

Dark Knight Rises. Bruce Quits. He is physically broken. Falling 3 flights, shot in the right side of the stomach, shoe-knifed by joker in the left side of his stomach, residual concussion brought by jokers crowbarring. The fall when Scarecrow set Bats on fire injured him too. He is also psychologically broken. He then leaves Blake the mantle.

I was answered a similar post to this earlier. Guys Nolan borrowed elements from the Dark Knight Returns but the situation was totally different. Even in Batman Beyond he stayed Batman in his heart even when he became too old. He was Batman for decades and stayed Batman. In The Dark Knight Returns at the end he planned how to continue the fight aganist crime after he faked his death etc. He never gave up. When you become too old that is one thing, but when you are Batman for a year and that is it? How is it even remotely true to the character?

 

[Fernandofan08]

In both those stories, Wayne was old and had been Batman for many, many decades. This Wayne hasn't been Batman for near as long nor been through near as much. Don't forget, the Joker card at the end of BB means TDK happened almost immediately after. So after Joker, he retires for 8 years, which means no physical damage during that time, then comes back for a few months as Batman before quitting again. Not the same thing whatsoever.

Yes, its is. Cause of retirement; body reached its limits. Beyond is through age. TDKR is through injury.

Now, you need to then ask yourself. Beyond happens when bruce retires through age. Which means every story is night on happened before his old age.

That means he has survived and had zero residual wounds or lingering injuries from any of the stories you want to try and make a canon out of.

Do you REALLY think a human being in peak physical fitness could fall 4 stories, get shot countless times, stabbed, beaten, buildings fall on him and just push them away with a broken arm which magically leaves no residual effect?

Exactly. Your applying comic book logic on screen. It doesnt work like that. BB/TDK/TDKR is one story arc covering 16 years 7 months. Begins happens over 7 years. Bruce returns. However long BB is. The bridge between BB and TDK is 1 year, making it 8 years. TDK is however long, say a month. Then its 8 years between TDK and TDKR. TDKR is covered by 6 months meaning 16 years and 7 month or whatever.

He is actively batman for over a year before retirement, then he is back to being batman for 6 months regardless of back breaking. In that year, like ive said before, shot/stabbed multiple times/crowbarred/ fell multiple stories twice. He got driven into a concrete wall by Scarecrow at the start of TDK. Mauled by dogs. Then when he comes back, back broken, stabbed again and severely beaten.

Injuries carry over in this story arc, its a start, middle and end. Whether im happy with how it played out doesnt come into it, the facts are, its one arc spanning just under 17 years. This is what you need to remember which it keeps failing to enter that thick skull of yours Nammy, this film doesnt use comic book logic. Its not like ASM where peter gets clawed on the chest. magically disappears. Its not like Iron man where stark falls out of bloody space, no damage whatsoever physically.

So you can harp about the comics and how long he is Batman there and totally forget all the injuries which magically heal. You can harp about whatever you want because your argument will always fail to anyone with a brain cell when your saying 'he doesnt retire in the comics through injury but he does in the film thats stupid'.

 

[intothevoid]

Well that is true, sort of. But than I will be more specific than. Frank Miller era - Today Batman. But no matter what era you look at...Batman never quits at the end. Never.

Firstly - he didn't quit. He succeeded in what he set out to do. Big difference.

Secondly - Sachiel hit the nail on the head.

Gotta sell comics.

Yupp.

How can he ever have an 'ending' in comics? It's not possible. That, more than anything I think is the most refreshing thing about the Nolan Trilogy as far as comic book adaptions (apart from self contained stuff like Watchment or V for Vendetta) go - it has a definitive beginning and ending.

 

[thenammagazine]

Yes, its is. Cause of retirement; body reached its limits. Beyond is through age. TDKR is through injury.

Now, you need to then ask yourself. Beyond happens when bruce retires through age. Which means every story is night on happened before his old age.

That means he has survived and had zero residual wounds or lingering injuries from any of the stories you want to try and make a canon out of.

Do you REALLY think a human being in peak physical fitness could fall 4 stories, get shot countless times, stabbed, beaten, buildings fall on him and just push them away with a broken arm which magically leaves no residual effect?

Exactly. Your applying comic book logic on screen. It doesnt work like that. BB/TDK/TDKR is one story arc covering 16 years 7 months. Begins happens over 7 years. Bruce returns. However long BB is. The bridge between BB and TDK is 1 year, making it 8 years. TDK is however long, say a month. Then its 8 years between TDK and TDKR. TDKR is covered by 6 months meaning 16 years and 7 month or whatever.

He is actively batman for over a year before retirement, then he is back to being batman for 6 months regardless of back breaking. In that year, like ive said before, shot/stabbed multiple times/crowbarred/ fell multiple stories twice. He got driven into a concrete wall by Scarecrow at the start of TDK. Mauled by dogs. Then when he comes back, back broken, stabbed again and severely beaten.

Injuries carry over in this story arc, its a start, middle and end. Whether im happy with how it played out doesnt come into it, the facts are, its one arc spanning just under 17 years. This is what you need to remember which it keeps failing to enter that thick skull of yours Nammy, this film doesnt use comic book logic. Its not like ASM where peter gets clawed on the chest. magically disappears. Its not like Iron man where stark falls out of bloody space, no damage whatsoever physically.

So you can harp about the comics and how long he is Batman there and totally forget all the injuries which magically heal. You can harp about whatever you want because your argument will always fail to anyone with a brain cell when your saying 'he doesnt retire in the comics through injury but he does in the film thats stupid'.

It still makes no sense. There are Special Forces soldiers with considerably more injuries than Wayne suffered with nowhere near the training he's had, nowhere near the peak physical condition he's in, nor possessing the resources at his disposal (medically), and they're still in full swing 2 and 3 times longer than Wayne was Batman.

And you don't get to use the "falling 4 stories." He fell off a skyscraper in TDK and crashed into a car and WALKED away unharmed. So clearly that didn't even phase him. And as of TDKR the only injury we see he's sustained is to a knee. That's it. And magically, he has a gadget that heals his knee so that he can kick through brick walls. So the body breaking down issue isn't a valid excuse at all.

 

[Fernandofan08]

I was answered a similar post to this earlier. Guys Nolan borrowed elements from the Dark Knight Returns but the situation was totally different. Even in Batman Beyond he stayed Batman in his heart even when he became too old. He was Batman for decades and stayed Batman. In The Dark Knight Returns at the end he planned how to continue the fight aganist crime after he faked his death etc. He never gave up. When you become too old that is one thing, but when you are Batman for a year and that is it? How is it even remotly true to the character?

And in TDKR he was itching for a reason to come back as Batman. For Gotham to need Batman. Seriously, did you not watch the film or listen to any of its messages? TDK Rachel says 'there will be a time where gotham no longer needs Batman. But will there ever be a time where Bruce doesnt need Batman'. She was right. Bruce always needs batman.

Gothams time came when it didnt need Batman; The Dent Act. Lowest crime rate for those 7 years. Gordon being shipped off as he was a War Hero in peace time. Dent act keeping Garcia as Mayor for two more terms.

TDKR Alfred says to Bruce that he is itching to come back. Itching for a reason. He has it in his head that he is going to die a martyr. Hold up in the east wing waiting for that day, and the day came with banes return.

Its all there, spelt out to anyone who uses their ears and processes the film.

Unwavering war of crime. Never breaking your one rule. Relentlessness. Always doing what right, even though it casts a bad shadow. Being a legend. Fighting to the bitter end knowing you will lose. Finding the will to act, the will to come back. Learning from your mistake, rising from the ashes, becoming the Legend Batman is.

The films nail that in its storytelling and its arc.

 

[Fernandofan08]

It still makes no sense. There are Special Forces soldiers with considerably more injuries than Wayne suffered with nowhere near the training he's had, nor the resources at his disposal (medically), and they're still in full swing 2 and 3 times longer than Wayne was Batman.

I cant actually believe what im reading.

Yes. We all know Special forces survive 3 story falls, get up, dust their wounds off. We all know they get shot and go back to being fine. We all know they fight supervillains, swing from buildings, glide into explosions and out of moving trains. We all know they still skyhook and HALO out of planes with such drastic wounds.

Ofcourse they dont you imbecile. Special forces soldier would be immediately retired from the field if they had no cartlidge in their knee. Residual concussion? Pulled from the field immediately. Shrapnel near their spine? Removed from duty. Simple as. And you know it too.

You dont see an amputee down in Afghanistan fighting for uncle sam do you? Nope. Non lethal bullet wound, yeah, they might go back. But sever injuries limiting mobility, any form of residual concussion? Removed straight from the field with immediate effect.

And dont even try to argue it, you know its true.

 

[crows]

Yes, its is. Cause of retirement; body reached its limits. Beyond is through age. TDKR is through injury.

Now, you need to then ask yourself. Beyond happens when bruce retires through age. Which means every story is night on happened before his old age.

That means he has survived and had zero residual wounds or lingering injuries from any of the stories you want to try and make a canon out of.

Do you REALLY think a human being in peak physical fitness could fall 4 stories, get shot countless times, stabbed, beaten, buildings fall on him and just push them away with a broken arm which magically leaves no residual effect?

Exactly. Your applying comic book logic on screen. It doesnt work like that. BB/TDK/TDKR is one story arc covering 16 years 7 months. Begins happens over 7 years. Bruce returns. However long BB is. The bridge between BB and TDK is 1 year, making it 8 years. TDK is however long, say a month. Then its 8 years between TDK and TDKR. TDKR is covered by 6 months meaning 16 years and 7 month or whatever.

He is actively batman for over a year before retirement, then he is back to being batman for 6 months regardless of back breaking. In that year, like ive said before, shot/stabbed multiple times/crowbarred/ fell multiple stories twice. He got driven into a concrete wall by Scarecrow at the start of TDK. Mauled by dogs. Then when he comes back, back broken, stabbed again and severely beaten.

Injuries carry over in this story arc, its a start, middle and end. Whether im happy with how it played out doesnt come into it, the facts are, its one arc spanning just under 17 years. This is what you need to remember which it keeps failing to enter that thick skull of yours Nammy, this film doesnt use comic book logic. Its not like ASM where peter gets clawed on the chest. magically disappears. Its not like Iron man where stark falls out of bloody space, no damage whatsoever physically.

So you can harp about the comics and how long he is Batman there and totally forget all the injuries which magically heal. You can harp about whatever you want because your argument will always fail to anyone with a brain cell when your saying 'he doesnt retire in the comics through injury but he does in the film thats stupid'.

I didn't even care about batman quitting and going with Catwoman to live happily ever after. That was fine, okay whatever.

What really pisses me off is the 8 year gap, That is irrational. Because we see Bruce quit being batman twice. Was it needed? no, it was not needed. If anything the 8 year gap hurts the story in Rises.
At the beginning of Rises we see a broken weak Bruce Wayne that quit being batman.
At the end of Rises we see a broken, weak (Bane's first fight) Bruce Wayne that quits being batman.

If Bruce Wayne was Batman at the beginning of Rises the first fight with Bane would have been much more shocking to see him lose. It would have made more of an impact. As it is now Batman losing to Bane is kinda obvious that was going to happen. But if you had an active Batman that was hiding from the police then when he meets Bane the fight would have been more meaningful.

Also if Nolan was going to have Bruce quit at the end, same thing, it would have had more meaning to see him quit at the end but not at the beginning of the movie.
Batman quitting and appearing with Catwoman is not even that much of a surprise because we already know as an audience that he will quit if things get too tough.
We already know this about him so the end is not even that much of a twist.


If you had a Bruce Wayne that was active as batman for 8 years I think the second half of the movie would have been much more meaningful. Bruce fall and defeat would have also made more of an impact.

It would have been more subtle to see Bruce getting tired of fig thing bad guys and muggers and maybe wanting to quit. Thinking he is strong enough to fight Bane.
Of course Bruce was going to lose against Bane. How was that a surprise for anyone. Nolan could have made it more of a shock if Bruce was still active as batman the first half of the movie.

Nolan seriously needs to stop beating his audiences over the head with the points he wants to make... We get it, Bruce needed to quit. I didn't need to see that in the same movie TWICE.

 

[thenammagazine]

I cant actually believe what im reading.

Yes. We all know Special forces survive 3 story falls, get up, dust their wounds off. We all know they get shot and go back to being fine. We all know they fight supervillains, swing from buildings, glide into explosions and out of moving trains. We all know they still skyhook and HALO out of planes with such drastic wounds.

Ofcourse they dont you imbecile.

And dont even try to argue it, you know its true.

So now you're resorting to calling me names to cover up your ignorance? A slip during a fastrope or repelling down mountains/buildings, ends in falling quite a few stories. The impact from several consecutive parachute jumps can also have the same effect on the body. Many times SF complete missions despite being shot by high-caliber bullets, grenade shrapnel, etc., not 9mm small stuff or minor fleshwounds from dogbites through a thick rubber suit. As far as supervillains, be honest with yourself. None of Nolan's "supervillains" really were that "super." Most don't even qualify enough to lick the boots of your local Al Qaeda recruiter. So you were saying?

 

[Fernandofan08]

It still makes no sense. There are Special Forces soldiers with considerably more injuries than Wayne suffered with nowhere near the training he's had, nowhere near the peak physical condition he's in, nor possessing the resources at his disposal (medically), and they're still in full swing 2 and 3 times longer than Wayne was Batman.

And you don't get to use the "falling 4 stories." He fell off a skyscraper in TDK and crashed into a car and WALKED away unharmed. So clearly that didn't even phase him. And as of TDKR the only injury we see he's sustained is to a knee. That's it. And magically, he has a gadget that heals his knee so that he can kick through brick walls. So the body breaking down issue isn't a valid excuse at all.[/QUOTE]

Wrong again. You clearly see him; fall with severe bruises in BB. You clearly see him stabbed in TDK. Shot in TDK. Crowbarred in TDK. You clearly see the scar from the dog bite in TDK.

Lots of scar tissue; Gunshots and stab wounds. Residual concussion; through the blows joker gave him with the crowbar (which was clearly a nod to Death in the Family). No cartlidge in his knee; fall with Harvey.

You know, use the brain and think 'hey, joker crowbarred the **** out of him in TDK, thats where he got that injury'. Because the film has continuity.

Well it is. Because its combined with the fact he wasnt needed.

And lets be honest, how did his back heal? Its clear that there was no bone penetration of the skin, meaning his back was only fractured. And the knee gadget... it doesnt make him kick through the bricks. His retained muscle compared with the assistance of the gadget allows it.

The question you should be asking, is 1) why would Bane let him keep the brace on. 2) If he didnt, how did the knee heal?

Those are plausable questions which need answering. Why? Well, id hope that it was because he got surgery after visiting the doctor at Gotham General. But then, we never know.

Just like we dont know how Ra's ghost was there or whether it was in his mind. Just like we dont know how the doctor actually performed such a surgey in the pit.

 

[Voorhees27]

This thread must be allowed to die.

 

[thenammagazine]

Wrong again. You clearly see him; fall with severe bruises in BB. You clearly see him stabbed in TDK. Shot in TDK. Crowbarred in TDK. You clearly see the scar from the dog bite in TDK.

Lots of scar tissue; Gunshots and stab wounds. Residual concussion; through the blows joker gave him with the crowbar (which was clearly a nod to Death in the Family). No cartlidge in his knee; fall with Harvey.

You know, use the brain and think 'hey, joker crowbarred the **** out of him in TDK, thats where he got that injury'. Because the film has continuity.

Well it is. Because its combined with the fact he wasnt needed.

And lets be honest, how did his back heal? Its clear that there was no bone penetration of the skin, meaning his back was only fractured. And the knee gadget... it doesnt make him kick through the bricks. His retained muscle compared with the assistance of the gadget allows it.

The question you should be asking, is 1) why would Bane let him keep the brace on. 2) If he didnt, how did the knee heal?

Those are plausable questions which need answering. Why? Well, id hope that it was because he got surgery after visiting the doctor at Gotham General. But then, we never know.

Just like we dont know how Ra's ghost was there or whether it was in his mind. Just like we dont know how the doctor actually performed such a surgey in the pit.

Even professional wrestlers sustain more damage in a year than Nolan's Batman does over the course of his brief tenure. And they push their bodies for decades. So essentially what you're trying to say is that Nolan's Batman was a frail little wimp.

And before I start asking your 1 & 2 questions, based on the paragraph preceding them, I think you need a few courses on human biology. Batman's back was dislocated, not broken and still healed like a Wolverine healing factor, and ignoring the fact that muscles atrophy with lack of movement, even if he did retain the muscles, the shock of that kick when he broke the bricks would've gone straight to his knee where there was supposedly no cushion whatsoever. So yes, it'd have to be a "magic brace."

 

[Fernandofan08]

So now you're resorting to calling me names to cover up your ignorance? A slip during a fastrope or repelling down mountains/buildings, ends in falling quite a few stories. The impact from several consecutive parachute jumps can also have the same effect on the body. Many times SF complete missions despite being shot by high-caliber bullets, grenade shrapnel, etc., not 9mm small stuff or minor fleshwounds from dogbites through a thick rubber suit. As far as supervillains, be honest with yourself. None of Nolan's "supervillains" really were that "super." Most don't even qualify enough to lick the boots of your local Al Qaeda recruiter. So you were saying?

Superhero; possesses commensurate powers and abilities so that he can present a daunting challenge to the hero. Even without actual physical, mystical, superhuman or superalien powers, the supervillain often possesses a genius intellect that allows him to draft complex schemes or create fantastic devices. Another common trait is possession of considerable resources to help further his aims. Many supervillains share some typical characteristics of real world dictators, mobsters, and terrorists and often have aspirations of world domination or universal leadership

Therefore, Joker and Ra's were supervillains.

To be honest, when you get the most retarded comments like that, you can help but wonder what sort of mental headcase your dealing with. Comparing a film characters injuries and villains to those like Al Qaeda? Your seriously demented on that one and should seek proffessional help.

I mean, its a film set in a false hyper reality. Its not a complete comic book film where a guy has the body of a crocodile, one guy must be kept a subzero temperature, or is half man half bat or even made up of clay. its akin to the first two Iron Man films; Hyper reality.

No where do I see any comparison required to Al Qaeda.....

 

[Adolfo]

This thread must be allowed to die.

LoL....... Don't you know by now that for some it will be the most contrversial film of all time... LoL!

 

[Fernandofan08]

Even professional wrestlers sustain more damage in a year than Nolan's Batman does over the course of his brief tenure. And they push their bodies for decades. So essentially what you're trying to say is that Nolan's Batman was a frail little wimp.

And before I start asking your 1 & 2 questions, based on the paragraph preceding it, I think you need a few courses on human biology.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Cartilage-damage/Pages/Introduction.aspx

And I quote the National Health Service of the UK;

Non-surgical treatments, such as physiotherapy and the non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) type of painkillers, are usually recommended for minor to moderate cases of cartilage damage.

In more serious cases surgery may be required. There are a number of surgical techniques available, such as encouraging the growth of new cartilage, or taking a piece of healthy cartilage from elsewhere in the body and using it to replace damaged cartilage.

In the most serious cases, the entire joint may need to be replaced with an artificial joint, such as a knee replacement or hip replacement.

Seems YOU need to know biology.

 

[thenammagazine]

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Cartilage-damage/Pages/Introduction.aspx

And I quote the National Health Service of the UK;

Non-surgical treatments, such as physiotherapy and the non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAIDs) type of painkillers, are usually recommended for minor to moderate cases of cartilage damage.

In more serious cases surgery may be required. There are a number of surgical techniques available, such as encouraging the growth of new cartilage, or taking a piece of healthy cartilage from elsewhere in the body and using it to replace damaged cartilage.

In the most serious cases, the entire joint may need to be replaced with an artificial joint, such as a knee replacement or hip replacement.

Seems YOU need to know biology.

I'll leave this be. There wasn't any "cartilage damage" as Wayne had NO cartilage left in his knee. You're only digging your own hole deeper.

 

[crows]

 

[thenammagazine]

Creepy Batman masturbating outside the window while watching the little boy eat dinner?