The Dark Knight Rises *SPOILERS*

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He wasn't giving up on him. He thought that, maybe, by making the tough choice, he would be able to save Bruce from himself.

Yeah, that's BS. :lol Save himself from a life in a cave, a life as Batman.


Where would the city have been had Alfred gotten his wish. Everyone would be dead. Alfred was wrong, the city needed Batman. Look what would have happened if Bruce did leave it up to the cops. They'd still all be trapped and dead.


Alfred was an idiot in the last one. He should have supported Bruce's decision, maybe encourage him to train more before he went back out. Not abandon him "for his own good". What if Bruce would have been killed, stuck in the city. Bet Alfred would have felt pretty damn stupid.
 
Perhaps, but Alfred wasn't entirely wrong. Bane did prove to be too much for Batman to handle, just as Alfred predicted; considering the fact that he paralyzed Bruce and was able to successfully takeover Gotham. Look, I'm not arguing that Alfred was wrong in that context; he was. His reasons for wanting Bruce to let it go were purely selfish, and he didn't want to see the boy he raised since he was eight years old dead.

He let his own emotions cloud his better judgement, but that's what humans do. When we love something, we don't want to let it go; no matter what the cost. If you had the choice between your son, brother, father, etc. or 1,000 strangers, who would you pick? Maybe you realize that their sacrifice would be for the greater good, but you can't tell me that you'd want that person to give up their life for those people.
 
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"Endure. You can be the outcast. You can make the choice that no one else will face, the right choice. Gotham needs you." - Alfred, talking to Bruce about the Joker and the importance of Batman


"Rachel believed in what you stood for, what WE stand for. Gotham needs you." - Alfred hands the Batman cowl back to Bruce, encourages him to go after the Joker





So, Bane comes to town. Alfred somehow knows that he's part of the League Shadows and a pretty dangerous dude (Bane and the LOS must be on google and Wikipedia now). Alfred seems to think Bane is worse than Ra's Al Ghul himself. But what does he say? He tells Bruce to stop, let the cops take care of it. Uhhhhh, worse than Ra's Al Ghul? Alfred knew in Batman Begins how bad that whole microwave emitter thing was and who was the only one who could stop Ra's Al Ghul? Oh that's right, Bruce Wayne/Batman.

So Alfred understands how bad things could potentially get, understands the importance of Batman, but doesn't want Bruce to go back out there, then leaves Bruce because he's continuing? That's dumb.


I can see wanting Bruce to live a better life than he currently had as a crappy, mopey, hermit, but Bruce finally started to get his mojo back again. He got his magical knee brace (why didn't he just use that thing before so he didn't have to walk with a cane?), he's going out and about in the town (something he never did) and is Batman again. He has real motivation now, not just going after Bane, but coming back at Wayne Enterprises, following Selina Kyle, etc. etc. Bruce just wasn't being Batman in that time, he wasn't being anyone, not even Bruce Wayne. He was a piece of crap who spent years in Wayne Manor doing nothing because "Batman wasn't needed anymore", his friend died and some weird, clean energy project thing (since when was Wayne interested in that) fell through. He let his father's company turn to crap and stopped looking at things like important charities to people that needed it the most.

Now he's finally out and about, doing stuff. Yes, death is a possibility, but since Begins, when hasn't it been? He could have died by Scarecrow, the monorail, fighting the mob, THE JOKER, but he never did. Now he wants to fight a legitimate threat like Bane and Alfred doesn't agree? He leaves him when Bruce needs him most? If anything, he should have helped prepare Bruce for his encounter. Maybe tell him to bring more weapons to that first fight than ****ing unpractical smoke pellet party favors.



It's retarded.
 
And how, exactly, would Alfred help Bruce "prepare?" Some montage set to 80's Karate Kid music? My point is that Bruce has always done this on his own. If Bruce is the infantry, Alfred's the medic that comes in after the mission, and you answered your own question. Mojo or not, Bruce has been out of commission for eight years. Leg brace or not, new tech or not; he's not been Batman for a very long time, and Alfred questions whether his heart's even in it anymore.

It'd be different if he was going to save the city, but, through Alfred's eyes, that wasn't even his deal anymore; he just had a death wish. Where would Gotham be then, man? If Bane had broken Batman's neck instead of his back? They'd be royally ****ed with a cherry on top. When Bruce took on Ra's, he was young and idealistic, and he had the will to do what was necessary, and, when he took on The Joker, he was more experienced and at the pinnacle of his run as Batman. Alfred knew there was a risk with those guys, but he had faith in Bruce because he knew he was committed enough to protecting his city that he wasn't going to let himself get killed.

He knew that Bruce wasn't as cocky and full of "mojo" as he made himself out to be, and that showed in his first encounter with Bane. That's where it all comes into play. It took watching his city be tormented by Bane for Bruce to finally get his heart back in it. Had that been the case to begin with, Bane, most likely, would have never broken his back.

It's not retarded, people are just TDKR bigots.:lol
 
And how, exactly, would Alfred help Bruce "prepare?" Some montage set to 80's Karate Kid music? My point is that Bruce has always done this on his own.

What about the parade and Alfred giving him addresses and names?

What about helping Bruce during the hospital incident, sending text to Gordon, helping out, etc.?

Putting together the Batsuit in Begins?

Putting together the Batcave?

Developing a flight plan and a flyer for Bruce's trip to Hong Kong?

Word of wisdom with stories and similar events that Alfred experienced that Bruce was going through?




Lot of the time, he's right in there with ideas, morals, and advice helping Bruce fight crime. But nah, guess not, I'm probably wrong. I made all that stuff above up.


Bruce has been out of commission for eight years. Leg brace or not, new tech or not; he's not been Batman for a very long time, and Alfred questions whether his heart's even in it anymore.


The real Alfred would have been like, "yo dog, you ain't ready, this Bane guy is too strong for ya, you've been out of the game for 8 years. Spend some time training, bring some more gadgets instead of those bloody, ineffective gas pellets, this magical leg brace is a good start, but you need to get back in shape."

You know, like he did in the past two films?


What was Alfred doing all those years anyway? Just letting Bruce slip into depression. He waits to get all preachy when Bruce wants to become Batman? Why not before when he wasn't even being Bruce Wayne?

Wait until he becomes Batman to tell him about the letter? So quick to leave Bruce because Bruce, almost silently states to "get out". Bruce knew that Alfred was looking out for his best interests, Alfred was just being a controlling, manipulative *****.

t'd be different if he was going to save the city, but, through Alfred's eyes, that wasn't even his deal anymore; he just had a death wish.



So, what was Bruce supposed to do when the city literally needed him again.

Let the cops handle it? We saw how that turned out with the incompetent Foley and the bumbling, bloat, equally depressed Gordon who sends all of his men, all of the cops in the CITY in a trap.

Maybe the same cops that couldn't even get themselves out of the rubble even though they had gear (SWAT was in there too) like explosives to dig themselves out? Remember, one of the reasons Batman even exists is because the GCPD is so awful at what they do and Alfred wants them to handle it?

Batman is the hero, the one who makes the decisions that saves lives and the city.

When Bruce took on Ra's, he was young and idealistic, and he had the will to do what was necessary, and, when he took on The Joker, he was more experienced and at the pinnacle of his run as Batman. Alfred knew there was a risk with those guys, but he had faith in Bruce because he knew he was committed enough to protecting his city that he wasn't going to let himself get killed.

He knew that Bruce wasn't as cocky and full of "mojo" as he made himself out to be, and that showed in his first encounter with Bane. That's where it all comes into play. It took watching his city be tormented by Bane for Bruce to finally get his heart back in it. Had that been the case to begin with, Bane, most likely, would have never broken his back.



Train more, don't be so full of yourself, give Bruce a speech like that one time in Burma where your partner had lost his will and became careless on missions or some crap.


Alfred never said this. He said, "yo not batmanz anymo, quit this stuff and go find a chimpanzee to ****. Give the police all your equipment so they can break it and **** up like they always do."

Those were his words of encouragement to his old pal Bruce.



people are just TDKR bigots.:lol



Or blind lovers/followers who will defend even the dumbest **** the movie has to offer.
 
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Intel? Yes. Training? No. The bottom line is that you can put the dog back in the fight, but you can't put the fight back in the dog; not unless he wants to do that himself. I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

Bruce's heart was not in it. He came back, yes, but it took John Blake's pep talk to get him back in the game, and even then, he was only their in body. The fact of the matter is that Bruce didn't care whether he lived or died. Alfred, again, knew that. He said that all Bruce had done was go out and make a spectacle of himself, and that fighting some common thugs is much different from fighting this guy.

Alfred did exactly what you said he should do; albeit implicitly. When someone tells you, "that dude's gonna **** your **** up." That's your cue to maybe get your head in the game and stop screwing around. Bruce ignored it, Alfred said, "do what you want, but I'm not going to be there to dig a hole for you." Bruce is stubborn; he's been that way since Begins, and there was no stopping him.

Alfred was right. What was the first thing Bruce did after their chat? Did he train more? Nope. He had Catwoman lead him straight to Bane, and what happened? Bane ****ed his **** up.

...and you're damn right I'll defend it; 'til my very last breath. You raise good points a lot of the time, but a lot of the criticisms for this movie are so damn nitpicky. It's like people can't accept that it might be, at least, a good movie, and they have to find something to hate. Never, in all of my years, have I seen a film picked apart this much.
 
Well I'm just glad Nolan made this film and not Fabio, jyecat et all :lol

Got the great movie I've been waiting for ever since TDK ended. :rock:
 
Intel? Yes. Training? No. The bottom line is that you can put the dog back in the fight, but you can't put the fight back in the dog; not unless he wants to do that himself. I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

Bruce's heart was not in it. He came back, yes, but it took John Blake's pep talk to get him back in the game, and even then, he was only their in body. The fact of the matter is that Bruce didn't care whether he lived or died. Alfred, again, knew that. He said that all Bruce had done was go out and make a spectacle of himself, and that fighting some common thugs is much different from fighting this guy.

Alfred did exactly what you said he should do; albeit implicitly. When someone tells you, "that dude's gonna **** your **** up." That's your cue to maybe get your head in the game and stop screwing around. Bruce ignored it, Alfred said, "do what you want, but I'm not going to be there to dig a hole for you." Bruce is stubborn; he's been that way since Begins, and there was no stopping him.

Alfred was right. What was the first thing Bruce did after their chat? Did he train more? Nope. He had Catwoman lead him straight to Bane, and what happened? Bane ****ed his **** up.

...and you're damn right I'll defend it; 'til my very last breath. You raise good points a lot of the time, but a lot of the criticisms for this movie are so damn nitpicky. It's like people can't accept that it might be, at least, a good movie, and they have to find something to hate. Never, in all of my years, have I seen a film picked apart this much.



You see nitpicky criticisms, I see valid criticisms.


The film went in a different direction from the last two films that was unlikable, in other people's opinions (not everyone obviously). It's not "hatin' to hate", the elements in there just doesn't feel right to them. That's all. You can't say "I just watched this, it's great. Man, people are just looking for little problems to hate on it" just like I can't say, "Man, I just watched this, it's sucks. Man, people are just looking to defend it because they're blindly in love with it". If it doesn't work for someone, it doesn't work. Simple as that.


There are things I like. I think Catwoman/Selina Kyle is great. It's just too bad she was in this kind of film and didn't have more things to do. Some of the action scenes are nice. The story though? The characters? The plot? The setting? Nah, hate all of em.




This thread has been dead for months now. I'm pretty sure we're past convincing each other that it's good or bad. It's done. We should be way past it. You like what you like, that's all.
 
I'm just saying that there are some things, like the bricks, for example, that are blown completely out of proportion, when there isn't even anything there that should be criticized, and I do stand by my statement that people rip this film apart looking for stuff. People are entitled to their own opinions; i am with you 100 percent, there, and you and i have always been among the few who can actually discuss these things without it devolving into one of those threads, but my point is that you could do the same thing for any film, so what's the point in singling this one out?
 
Maybe that's the only enjoyment people can get out of the film since they didn't get anything special out of it? Digging into it more and more, "man, this thing was a disappointment, gonna go in deeper and rip it more". Who knows.


I got over it a while ago. Like I said, it's over. Who cares anymore? Either side. I don't think that magical knee brace thing is a "nitpick" for all the people that make fun of it though. The device literally just comes out of nowhere like it's written in conveniently (like Blake just knowing, like a LOT of things in this movie) so we don't have a hobbling Batman. There's more to it in the script, but it begs to question, if Bruce had that in his possession all along, why didn't he wear it all along? Especially when he went out in public.


After that scene, it's never mentioned again. Bane let him wear that in the prison? We never see Bruce's knee messed up again?

It quite literally is a magic "fix" to propel the plot. It's not just having Bruce kick through a solid sealed, brick, wall (from a newly built Batcave/Wayne Manor, underground passage and all).




I love TDK, but you know that "magic bullet" thing he has for the finger prints? I thought that was ****ing retarded. I criticized that for months and that ain't no "small thing". It's literally dumb. The difference between TDK and TDKR though? TDKR has way more wrong with it, character, plot and story wise than TDK does, in my opinion. TDK has much, much more going for it. Like you said, every movie has things you can pick apart if you want, but TDKR just has so many more aggravating ones. I mean, this was the sequel to "omg, the best batman movie evah, hail nolen" and for me and others, it felt like a step back. It is a step back where it's most important, the story telling.
 
That's another thing, though; the Blake's "magic orphan" look thing. Blake says, and I quote, "I knew who you really were." Why, may I ask, can people not use their minds? They complain about Nolan "spoon feeding" them, and yet, it seems, they complain that he doesn't. It's all about context, and "who you really were" does not, necessarily, denote "Batman." Is it so hard for people to believe that, maybe, Blake knew then that Wayne had a secret, and, from there, he obsessed over it until he deduced what it was?"
 
I loved parts of the movie, especially Bane, but Alfred really was pointless. They should have just killed him and made him an impetus to get back in the game.

Sent from the Monolith.
 
I loved parts of the movie, especially Bane, but Alfred really was pointless. They should have just killed him and made him an impetus to get back in the game.

Sent from the Monolith.

I agree there. They should have set the bar with Bane by making him snap Alfred's old neck.
 
Alfred does so much teary eyed moaning in TDKR I'm surprised Bruce didn't do it himself.

Honestly I watch all three again recently and realised that all Caine does for the entire trilogy is moan at Bruce.

"moan...Master Bruce", "moan ...your fathers memory moan, master Bruce" "moan stronger man..Master Bruce" etc etc..



Personally I would have pushed him down the well and hired Selina full time in that maids outfit.
 
Personally I would have pushed him down the well and hired Selina full time in that maids outfit.

:lol:lol:lol:rotfl

:exactly::goodpost::lecture

skmaid.jpg
 
It's interesting seeing how divided people are on this movie, but its even more fascinating (to me) how divided I am on this movie. I go back and forth and really, even now, can't figure out how I feel about it. I was certainly underwhelmed and don't think its anywhere near the quality of batman begins or the dark knight, but when I watch it or read some people's praising of it I do find myself agreeing on a lot of points (though not all) and then also seeing how a lot of people hate it. It's really strange and I don't think I've ever felt so conflicted over a film. :lol
 
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