The Dark Knight Rises *SPOILERS*

[Darth Madden]

Personally, I think TDKR is the weakest of its trilogy.

BB 8/10
TDK 9/10
TDKR 7.5/10

Yeah, I'd compare it to the SW OT. First one classic, 2nd one equal to if not better than the first, 3rd not as good as the first 2 but still better than most of the other crap out there.

 

[DiFabio]

I think more people related to Wayne than stark. My wife was even turned off by stark telling that kid don't be a ***** about it. Bruce would never have said that she said to me

Did your wife catch the end when Stark fixed up that kid's garage with the new computer and all that other cool stuff?

The banter and scenes between that kid and Stark was more genuine and sincere than the forced relationship between Blake and Wayne. The kid had his quips and an "attitude" too. Stark related to him.



Bruce Wayne might have said something along those line too in Begins and The Dark Knight. Playboy, ****** bag remember? The guy that rudely tells people off, buys hotels, puts people out of business, forces himself on overbooked restaunts, etc. etc. Bale's performance was much more interesting and well rounded in the first two with all those different "faces" and facets of Bruce Wayne's persona and of course, Batman's.

In TDKR he's deadpan. He probably wouldn't say anything to anyone.

 

[Khev]

Surely there are more movie goers than that? Cinemascore? They gave Tyler Perry's Temptation and other an A+. How accurate is that?

Cinemascore allows diehards who see the film on opening day to weigh in. So how well a Tyler Perry film entertained Tyler Perry fans has no relevance here. Apparently all those BB and TDK fans who showed up for more of the same got exactly what they were hoping for when it came time to give their score.

There are no numbers, there are no majorities or minorities.

Wait a minute, are you saying that you can't count? Or that you don't know what a number is or that you don't believe that there is such a thing as numbers? This just got weird...

 

[Khev]

Open IM3 spoilers in this thread will be deleted.

 

[CelticPredator]

The movie's been out for almost a month now.

 

[The Josh]

Yeah, I'd compare it to the SW OT. First one classic, 2nd one equal to if not better than the first, 3rd not as good as the first 2 but still better than most of the other crap out there.

I agree. The only other Bat,an film I'd put ahead of TDKR is the 89 Batman.

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I thought the Stark/kid stuff wash fantastic and did not think anything he said to the kid was bad. My Dad and I say far worse things to each other all the time (we're giving each other grief for the sake of joking. Ask comic-con folks for an idea). I think Wayne comes across much worse than Stark has at any point.

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I saw TDKR in the Trilogy showing AMC did. So I was one of those there opening night (midnight more specifically) and if I had to score it coming out I'd have given it a B/B-. Directly compared to the other two it was a let down. For me obviously ones mileage may vary.

 

[DiFabio]

There are too many movie goers and audience members to get a cut and dry number of what the overall opinion is. Not all of them participate in these critical reviews and ratings. Either because they choose not to or they simply can't. Not everyone is a film critic. Stating "oh, who cares about those that love this movie, they don't matter, the majority hates it" is just as ridiculous as what you're saying. Then there's the other factor that's already been discussed. Time. Not every person has the same feelings for a movie they had when they initially saw it, especially a year later.


There are no important numbers that validate something in my book, just people with varying opinions. It doesn't matter how others feel, it's about how YOU as an individual feel. If you like it, you like it, that's your preference and what you're free too express. Same if you don't. It's called different perceptions.



What you seem to be stating is, "eh, a majority love this thing, those other people are just a small, vocal minority that don't count". It's probably not your intent, but it comes off as saying "the minority is wrong in the scheme of things because they're the minority, who cares".

I'm saying that isn't true, even if you can show me a percentage that somehow polls in every single person's opinion that saw the movie (which there is none). People get waaaaaaay too caught up in movie criticism and box office success to legitimize their feelings over something. Those two things don't matter, what matters is how the individual feels. At the end of the day, they're the ones that are experiencing the film, it's their opinion. What do majorities/minorities and others matter?

 

[Khev]

Maybe I misread your post but you seemed to be arguing that since the majority liked it and it was a huge financial success that anyone that criticized it was part of a very vocal 'can't-please-everyone fanboy' minority.

Oh that's exactly what I meant, which is different than saying a film is uncriticizable because of box office success. A movie doesn't become a huge critical and commercial success because the *majority* of people think its disappointing. Ergo if you found it disappointing you're in the minority, that's all.

 

[Invictus Sol]

...Directly compared to the other two it was a let down...

This was my impression, as well.

...Ergo if you found it disappointing you're in the minority, that's all.

In that context, we have no argument. I was misinterpreting your posts a little, before.

 

[The Josh]

This was my impression, as well.

I guess we're just hard to please. Though, I'm pretty sure that's not what some around here would say about me.

 

[CelticPredator]

Oh that's exactly what I meant, which is different than saying a film is uncriticizable because of box office success. A movie doesn't become a huge critical and commercial success because the *majority* of people think its disappointing. Ergo if you found it disappointing you're in the minority, that's all.

I feel that way about people who didn't like Iron Man 3.

 

[jye4ever]

DiFabio is right, there are 4.5 billion people in this dirty world, impossible to give a final answer if TDKR has more lovers or more haters.

If anything, probably more who don't give a crap.

Only way to have a final answer would be if humanity were taken over by the Borg.

 

[IrishJedi]

movie doesn't become a huge critical and commercial success because the *majority* of people think its disappointing. Ergo if you found it disappointing you're in the minority, that's all.

Would you not agree that KOTCS is at least considered a huge disappointment (if not downright hated) by many/most? Maybe even by the "majority"? Then please explain its 78% RottenTomatoes rating, A-/B+ initial CinemaScore and nearly $800 million worldwide box office take.

Unless you're going claim that KOTCS haters are the "vocal minority" you're probably going to have to reconcile that somehow in comparison with TDKR, which fared a little better in these areas, but not by much. Or maybe admit that these numbers really aren't indicative of a film's overall critical reception, especially after the passage of time.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Bruce Wayne in the last flick was pretty dull. He wasn't much of a character.

Stark, is just classically awesome. More adults need to shoot kids down.

IDK if I would call him "dull". His parents died, he was presumed dead, his families mansion caught fire. He was in prison, he was shot, fell down a couple stories (one time more then a couple), his girlfriend dies, his only hope to stop being batman and live a normal life was blown in half, gotham hates batman, his butler and father figure split, his company is going bankrupt. He's ****ed up. Like anybody who experiences that would be.

I would say Stark is funner watch, that's true.

DiFabio is right, there are 4.5 billion people in this dirty world, impossible to give a final answer if TDKR has more lovers or more haters.

If anything, probably more who don't give a crap.

Only way to have a final answer would be if humanity were taken over by the Borg.

Pretty much, yup.

 

[Russell1982]

Batman Begins and Iron Man were great. Fantastic starts to the series.

The Dark Knight is not only one of the best Batman films, but also one of the best comic book films as well.

Iron Man 3 was entertaining.

Iron Man 2 and The Dark Knight Rises are forgettable, save for the lolz like Bane and Burd and the wild antics of Justin Hammer. Howard Stark tapes and Bruce climbing out of the pit are nice too.

Difabio, out of curiosity is there anything you DID like about TDKR? I know we've often had the same views on batman as a character and the various interpretations of him and his world and I know you're hardly a fan of TDKR. I have very mixed feelings toward it but I was certainly disappointed. Just curious if there's anything you enjoyed about it and if so what?

 

[ZaCHw117]

Lolsy voices is the only thing he likes about it.

 

[Russell1982]

Haha, can't argue with that. While there were a lot of things I disliked about it, there were also lots of cool moments too.

 

[Khev]

Would you not agree that KOTCS is at least considered a huge disappointment (if not downright hated) by many/most? Maybe even by the "majority"? Then please explain its 78% RottenTomatoes rating, A-/B+ initial CinemaScore and nearly $800 million worldwide box office take.

Unless you're going claim that KOTCS haters are the "vocal minority" you're probably going to have to reconcile that somehow in comparison with TDKR, which fared a little better in these areas, but not by much. Or maybe admit that these numbers really aren't indicative of a film's overall critical reception, especially after the passage of time.

TDKR and KOTCS have some pretty significant differences, statistically speaking. For one KOTCS was part of a legendary Lucasfilm franchise following a 19 year drought. I'm not sure how accurate a Cinemascore rating would be for something like that. If I remember correctly you yourself had to take days to decompress after seeing it. It'd be nice if you could compare a movie that wasn't SW or Indy just because those franchises are SO beyond the norm with regard to audience anticipation/reaction.

But let's go with KOTCS anyway since you brought it up.

Rottentomatoes critics:

KOTCS: 78%
TKDR: 87% (higher than Batman Begins)

That's a pretty big differential. Nobody gets a C+ on a test in school and says, "oh that's basically a B+."

Rottentomatoes audience:

KOTCS: 59%, 3.4/5 average rating, 1.1 million votes
TDKR: 92%, 4.5/5 average rating, 450,000 votes (and also higher than Batman Begins)

Huge disparity. I certainly won't concede that TDKR had a similar reception. If you can find a movie that we can agree is a "disappointment" that got an A Cinemascore, 87%+ rottentomatoes, 90% audience rating AND made a billion at the box office then I'm all ears. But I don't see KOTCS as fitting the bill. Revenge of the Sith looks to be a better comparison but again it's SW and still has a KOTCS-eque audience rating on rottentomatoes compared to TKDR.

If the website stats don't mean anything then it shouldn't be that hard to find other movies that were critically acclaimed, made tons of money, and yet still are generally considered to be disappointing or subpar. And before you bring up Titanic or Avatar people who hate on those movies really are just "backlashing" against the hype. They're both still very good movies even if the level of their accolades makes us scratch our heads.

 

[The Josh]

Didn't we cover this ground last summer? There are lots of folks who think this film walks on water and there are lots of folks who felt it came up short. Both sides don't seem to want to give much either way. In the end I'm sure Khev doesn't give a darn that I think the film was the weakest in the series and I don't really sweat it he thinks it walks on water. Nobody is going to make an impact on the others pov. Time to move on or at least find a new horse to beat.

 

[IrishJedi]

The argument isn't whether TDKR was better received than KOTCS, but that KOTCS was positively rated by a statistical majority of both critics and audiences and also made a ton of money. My point is that these things (RottenTomatoes ratings, audience scores, box office, etc.) are really not that indicative of how a movie is ultimately perceived. Even if KOTCS was much lower (say, 60%) that would still be a majority scoring it positively yet we all know that film is pretty damn disliked, and not just by Internet fanboys.

There's something in the zeitgeist that cannot really be measured. But you can sense it. And I've sensed for a while now that views on TDKR are pretty well mixed.

Also, while you're right that Star Wars and Indy are different, Batman is still very, very huge and a pop culture phenomenon all its own. In fact, it's pretty easy to see that Batman is much more popular in the mainstream today than Indy is. That kinda bums me out, because Indy is pretty much my favorite. But it is what it is.