The Dark Knight Rises *SPOILERS*

[Khev]

Show me one scene from TDKR that made it seem like this. Bane's "revolution" was a sham. The streets looked pretty damn good for 5 months of "tyranny" and oppression to me. This was supposed to be a disaster/war movie right? Gotham looked clean, it's citizens looked clean. I didn't see people fighting for their lives.


The worst thing that was shown were the special forces being hanged, but those weren't even regular citizens. What were the regular citizens doing? Staying in their homes, praying, eating food, having parties etc. Yeah, wealthy folks got thrown out of their homes, but they weren't murdered. They simply lost their stuff. The business board members were the only ones put on trial for their "crimes" in the kangaroo court.

Show you a scene that shows that Bane's revolution wasn't a sham? You apparently think that Gordon was a "business board member" so what's the point?

 

[Khev]

IrishJedi and The Josh. Won't watch the movie but will still spend hours talking about it.

 

[a-dev]

I think I've seen it twice. Maybe 3 times. A good bit less than BB or TDK.

 

[jye4ever]

The soundtrack presentation is one of the most obnoxious out there.

It completely drowns out the character's lines.

Except for Bane's voice in the plane, it's like he's amplified to the max in that scene.

 

[DiFabio]

Yes, a big threat is "better" for drama and excitement than a small threat. Publically murdering a mayor or pro football team is a hell of a lot more terrifying than secretly murdering some random judge or police commissioner.

So size is what you were looking for, I gotcha.


Personally I rolled my eyes once the President of the United States was involved in a Batman movie and they went the cliched NUCLEAR THREAT route. Yeah, TDKR is larger than The Dark Knight but bigger isn't better in my opinion. You can tell that's exactly what they were trying to do with the sequel too. "We gotta top the hospital explosion, we gotta top the truck flip" etc. etc. but they never did. The Dark Knight felt much more personal and grand without going the forced "THIS IS EPIC" direction.


I felt more panic and hostility when the Joker is telling everyone to get out and we actually GET Gotham's reaction to what he's saying than I ever did with TDKR. The threat of the bombs on the bridges with the bomb squad and dogs is more exciting than actually seeing CGI bridges blow up and fall into the water.


Also, Bane and Talia could have had a satellite orbiting space that threatened to destroy the world (nuke the entire planet from orbit) after they killed ambassadors and the President himself, it still wouldn't top the Joker. By this logic, Mr. Freeze from Batman and Robin with his master plan of freezing the entire world (which he does until they're "thawed") is more than what the Joker does. Then the other villains I mentioned before in the Hasbro movies are bigger than the Joker too.


That doesn't make them more "accomplished" or better than the Joker. If there was a poll or any type of voting for which villain is superior be it their personality, voice, threat, villainy, plan, etc. The Joker will always win.

 

[IrishJedi]

IrishJedi and The Josh. Won't watch the movie but will still spend hours talking about it.

Talking about this movie is a helluva a lot more fun than watching it now.

 

[Khev]

If there was a poll or any type of voting for which villain is superior be it their personality, voice, threat, villainy, plan, etc. The Joker will always win.

How can the Joker win a poll when there is no such thing as numbers?

 

[DiFabio]

Through magic of course.


In this hypocritical case, the majority would favor the Joker over Bane and it would matter. It's science.

 

[jye4ever]

I agree with DiFabio, bigger is not better.

Unless we're referring to b o o b s, then yes, bigger is always better.

 

[DiFabio]

I agree with DiFabio, bigger is not better.

Unless we're referring to b o o b s, then yes, bigger is always better.

Better be sure.

 

[a-dev]

Better be sure.

Must be one of your favorite lines from the 89 film.

 

[Khev]

I agree with DiFabio, bigger is not better.

Nothing wrong with judging your superhero movies by how theatrical the villain's personality is over stakes and excitement. Obviously many agree with you and Fabio as the Joker has always been one of the most popular villains.

Someone said that the Joker beat Batman with a pipe and some dogs? Apparently I need to watch the movie again because I remember the Joker hanging upside down and being captured by the cops as a result of that encounter. Too bad that wasn't the actual finale of the movie.

 

[crows]

I felt more panic and hostility when the Joker is telling everyone to get out and we actually GET Gotham's reaction to what he's saying than I ever did with TDKR. The threat of the bombs on the bridges with the bomb squad and dogs is more exciting than actually seeing CGI bridges blow up and fall into the water.


Also, Bane and Talia could have had a satellite orbiting space that threatened to destroy the world (nuke the entire planet from orbit) after they killed ambassadors and the President himself, it still wouldn't top the Joker. By this logic, Mr. Freeze from Batman and Robin with his master plan of freezing the entire world (which he does until they're "thawed") is more than what the Joker does. Then the other villains I mentioned before in the Hasbro movies are bigger than the Joker too.

That is true. I thought Joker going to blow up two boats was more stressful to watch than Bane having the nuclear weapon in Gotham.

 

[Khev]

And it is true that Arnold's Mr. Freeze was a more accomplished villain than the Joker as well. As stated he actually *did* freeze Gotham. Too bad it was a laughable performance in a laughable movie. But at least he did what he set out to do. No Batman gloating over his failed "social experiment."

 

[DiFabio]

Someone said that the Joker beat Batman with a pipe and some dogs? Apparently I need to watch the movie again because I remember the Joker hanging upside down and being captured by the cops as a result of that encounter. Too bad that wasn't the actual finale of the movie.

He beats Batman down, immobilizes him and pins him down. Physically, he kicks his ***. He does it at the party too with some muscle and a well placed shoe knife to the ribs. Isn't that what we were talking about when you said that Bane beat him down? Over powering "beat downs"?

Or are we talking about who "wins"? If that's the case, it isn't so clear cut and dry in The Dark Knight with who won like it is in TDKR where Batman is the clear victor over Talia and Bane. I mean the Joker turned Dent into a bad guy and forced Batman at taking the blame and running away from the cops. Not to mention killed his girl.


What did Bane do? Give him a miss placed vertebra? Borrowed his stuff? Give him a doctor to heal and escape? Get blood on his costume when Bane got blasted by Catwoman?


Talia did more damage.

And it is true that Arnold's Mr. Freeze was a more accomplished villain than the Joker as well. As stated he actually *did* freeze Gotham. Too bad it was a laughable performance in a laughable movie. But at least he did what he set out to do. No Batman gloating over his failed "social experiment."

But see, Joker changes his plan every 5 seconds so what does that matter?


First he wants half the mob's money, then he wants to burn the money. First he wants to kill Batman and Dent, then he doesn't want to kill Batman and Dent. He succeeds. He's completely contradictory in what he sets out to do.

He's like "a dog chasing cars". He's all over the place, his plans have plans. For the most part he accomplishes everything he wants to do.


- Steal the mob's cash
- makes the mob work for him
- kills important authority figures
- thwarts Batman, Dent and Gordon's plans several times

- plans to be held captive, escapes
- kills Batman's girl
- in the process sends Dent off the deep end, proving that someone as good as him would lose it
- messes with Gothamites heads with the hospital threat and makes them lose control

- causes events that leads Batman to break his own rule
- spiritually break down the heroes



The only failure he has in the film is his very last plan where the ferries don't blow up (even though the "innocent" ferry voted to do it and pussed out) and Gotham doesn't realize that Dent killed those people.



He still made Dent turn, Gordon and Batman had to live with that at an expense. Knowing the Joker's character, he'd twist it around and have some other scheme to make it appear he won. For the most part, he does everything he sets out to do from the beginning of the film. Remember, Batman says "The Joker wanted to prove someone as good as you could fall" . . . "and he was right".



Bane? He doesn't kill any of Batman's loved ones, he doesn't kill or cripple Bruce, no one's hope is shattered and the bomb doesn't even go off. Hell, Bruce POUNDED his girl, broke his wittle mask and made him cry, then he gets taken out after being a chump.

 

[EVILFACE]

Joker also beat Batman (a trained ninja) with a pipe, a net and some pups. He also killed his girl and drove his "one hope for an ordinary life" into a foaming frenzy. He didn't have some lame plan to nuke the city either, he wanted to sit atop his throne and rule it through chaos and madness. He also rose to the top from a common criminal that steals mob money to criminal master mind. He tormented everyone from ordinary Gothamites to Gordon.


Bane beat a freaking rusty Batman that hadn't seen action in almost a decade, didn't even escape the pit by himself, mumbles, kills people much smaller and weaker than him (well, when he's standing on a box out of frame anyway) and had this convoluted plan of letting the city chill for 5 months and give the hero a doctor and some recovery time to let him come back and whoop his ***. Oh, and the little girl is really the one that escaped the pit and is the head honcho and made him cry before he got a cheap death after being a coward.




Joker all the way.

This is a mighty fine post.

And as for Joker beating up Batman, he had just taken out Jokers goons and most of Gothams SWAT team, so he might have been a little winded.

 

[IrishJedi]

If you're Batman, the Joker and chaos for no reason is ten times scarier than Bane and the LoS. And I think that's kinda the point.

These movies weren't from the POV of Citizen Gotham anyway (though they tried to be at times).

 

[Khev]

He beats Batman down, immobilizes him and pins him down. Physically, he kicks his ***. He does it at the party too with some muscle and a well placed shoe knife to the ribs. Isn't that what we were talking about when you said that Bane beat him down? Over powering "beat downs"?

I didn't say Bane "beat him down." I said Bane broke him. Defeated him. Stood victoriously over his body, free to do whatever he pleased. Never did the Joker ever have such an advantage. He had to strike at the weak things that Batman loved to hurt him, he couldn't ever take Batman himself.

Bane did both. Defeated Bruce the man and then went off and ransacked, terrorized, and murdered the weak people he loved. Took his money, took his gadgets. Stripped him of everything and left him to languish in a pit of his choosing while he abused his city and its citizens. Oh no! Bane had a critical flaw and underestimated Bruce's resolve and ingenuity! Yeah well, welcome to comic book movies, villains tend to do that. If they didn't have such flaws the heroes would die. I'd rather have a competent villain with a fatal err in judgment than an incompetent one who gives it everything he has. Keaton Batman looked like such a loser for killing the pathetically inept Penguin.

 

[Khev]

If you're Batman, the Joker and chaos for no reason is ten times scarier than Bane and the LoS.

Unless you have sonar.

 

[The Josh]

IrishJedi and The Josh. Won't watch the movie but will still spend hours talking about it.

To be fair outside of my initial viewing of it and the discussion that went with it I haven't talked about it much. He'll, I think I've talked about Indy more in this thread than TDKR.

Talking about this movie is a helluva a lot more fun than watching it now.

I'd say that's fair.