The Dark Knight Rises ***USE SPOILER TAGS***

[devilof76]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Batman is a COMIC BOOK character. I'm not a fan of directors translating the source material into a real world environment.
For me Gotham is in its own reality stuck in that 30's & 40's era inspired design aesthetic but with Batman loaded with hi end tech. That's what '89 Batman had going for it - Its own identity capturing the essence of the character nicely. I hope when Nolan has finished with his story, we'll have another reboot a few years down the line...

I think that purposefully rendering the material in a surreal fashion dumbs down the reality of what a comic portrays. I'm not in the camp that says a realistic portrayal must exclude fantastical elements. I think that's counter to the purpose of bringing comics into realistic mediums. But, creating a film out of fantastical premises is an opportunity to bring that fantasy to life, and if it's played out as if it could only happen in a dreamworld, all a director is doing is damning the fantasy to a limbo of unreality. Film is not newsprint, and there is no point in taking it off the page if all a director does is fill a screen with dot matrix caricatures.

 

[lerath666]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

That would have been the worst possible thing that could have happened. Batman could never redeem himself and the character would be ruined. Murder a suspect already under arrest in police custody in the station.

Yupp - Cannot break the rule

I disagree. I felt like that's how the movie should've ended myself, especially since Ledger wouldn't be coming back. They could've easily had the Joker fall to his death when Batman threw him off of the building, laughing as he went, just with Batman never stopping his fall. It could be a major plot point, how Batman broke his one rule - and how can he go about redeeming himself, or ensuring he never breaks his rule again.

If only Chris had known that Heath was going to die he could have killed him in the movie to neatly tie it up for people who don't like loose ends.

I don't think you guys get Batman. He is redeeming himself. If he breaks the rule he crosses the line and loses forever. He becomes what he pledges to stop and there is no way back short of Clark spinning the earth around for him.

What if he accidentally went too far? Stories are immortal. Batman will be around much longer than we will be. I don't see anything wrong if one day we saw him explode by accident on the big screen.

Think about it? What would the character do? Get lost even more, potentially kill himself (that would be lame)? Somehow find justification in it? Who knows.

I like how it pans out in the Dark Knight. He beats the Joker by not killing him and proves how good he is. Joker gives him the "destined" and "self righteous" bits and it's all fantastic. But I don't think there's anything wrong with discussing what ifs. Hell I don't think there would be anything wrong if that happened if it was done in a tasteful way. What if Nolan did set it up that way and made it even more tragic?

I'm in the camp that would want to see Joker and Batman duke it out mentally, physically and emotionally forever (that and I would never want the Joker to die ), but everyone has breaking points. To see that flesh out on screen would be amazing and I'd certainly be open to it.

What happens is we get Batman Beyond.

 

[Sachiel]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Sounds like the only way to get Heath Ledger back from the dead.

 

[Starkiller]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

The Dark Knight Rises!? Ughhhh...

 

[devilof76]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Thanks mod.

Here's some coal. Make me a diamond.

 

[lord-22]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

i honestly think we should all thank that last schumacher's bat abomination called batman & robin. it took the bat franchise into such extreme suckage territory, the pendulum is bound to swing back to opposite side with fervor.

much more so than the burton films, the schumacher films are directly responsible for us getting these cool nolan's bat films.

 

[Cap'n Cook]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

dark knight rises??? sounds like a porn parody, no?

Nope.

something is very wrong when the guy who did memento, insomnia, begins and dark knight has to follow the titles of some crappy films like, rise of cobra, rise of lycans, rise of silver surfer.

He's not following those titles. Just because they have almost the same word in them...seriously?

how about these:
- batman triumphant (a nod to miller's TDKR and bookends the first film, batman begins, perfectly)

I do quite like that.

there will be a joker. you can almost bank on it. a force like that you cant just ignore it entirely, even when he's sitting in a padded cell. i can definitely see the joker's role akin to hannibal lecter in red dragon. if nolan bothered to tie up loose end with scarecrow in dark knight, i think chances are we'll see a scene or two with the joker.

and these should happen in film 3:
- gordon knows batman's identity(it will take their relationship to another level)
- there'll be a new tough cop whose task force is assigned with the sole mission to capture batman(a nod to miller's TDKR)
- catwoman will be in 3. count on it.

Unless there is unused audio or video of Heath as the Joker, he will not be in it -mark my words.

I count on Catwoman being in it.

The cop will likely be Tom Hardy.

 

[intothevoid]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I don't like Batman Triumphant. That suggests that the war is won and there is nothing left to be done.

Whereas we all know the story CANNOT end like that, the only logical end is for us to be left with hope that Batman's crusade is working and it will be an ongoing one and someone will have to carry his mantle once he is done.

To that end The Dark Knight Rises is more apt.

 

[cr`]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

schumacher is a martyr. people make fun of his bat nipples when they should be saluting him for taking the fall for the greater good.

He's not following those titles. Just because they have almost the same word in them...seriously?

of course nolan is not following the titles of those films. the point is, that particular word is as standard and generic as often found in subpar sequels. i know what nolan's thinking, he wanted a title that connect to the titles of first and second film, so he brought back "dark knight" from the second film and added "rises" to complement "begins" from the first film. but that's just as easy as 1+1=2, and about just as interesting.

look at the jump from "batman begins" to "dark knight". the second title is such a bold departure from the first one, while this one just sounds like generic sequel title. no doubt the film has a lot of potential coolness. that's why the title is so underwhelming to me.

Unless there is unused audio or video of Heath as the Joker, he will not be in it -mark my words.

I count on Catwoman being in it.

The cop will likely be Tom Hardy.

joker is a role, just like rachel is a role. and a role just need a good actor to make it come alive. i think nolan understands this. if there's a good subplot to pursue with the joker involved while in arkham, i dont think nolan will shut it down just because heath is no longer available. story comes first before everything else.

and yeah, catwoman will be in it, simply because nolan loves noir. it's something he excels in(memento). and since there's no noir without a femme fatale, catwoman will finally give him the excuse to make a batman noir. and THAT, ladies and gentlemen, will be something to see.

I don't like Batman Triumphant. That suggests that the war is won and there is nothing left to be done.

Whereas we all know the story CANNOT end like that, the only logical end is for us to be left with hope that Batman's crusade is working and it will be an ongoing one and someone will have to carry his mantle once he is done.

To that end The Dark Knight Rises is more apt.

i think "triumphant" can mean exactly what you said in bold. doesnt have to mean the war is over, just that he has now succeeded in being the symbol of hope to gotham.

 

[Maglor]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

 

[Cap'n Cook]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

That's hilarious!

 

[SnakeDoctor]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I've been thinking through some villain possibilities for TDKR. I think the top contenders are ...

Catwoman -- I'm not a huge Catwoman fan, but her general realism and the fact that the previous female lead/love interest was detonated seems to make her a logical frontrunner. Not really a villain, though ... more of an anti-hero. She can't really be the main villain, I don't think.

Hush -- Realistic character. Something of a badass. In the comics, I think his strings were pulled by The Ridder ... but there's no reason his strings couldn't be pulled by a faceless Arkham captive. This could be the perfect villain to tie together Joker, Dent and the third act.

Two-Face -- I still think this is a possibility given Dent's somewhat ambiguous death, the lack of a prominent Joker carryover, and the fact that "The Dark Knight" title referred partially to Dent (thus "The Dark Knight Rises" could as well). If I recall correctly, part of the Hush backstory is that his parents were surgeons, and he eventually helped surgically repair Dent and restore him.

Black Mask -- Has some of the same upside as Hush ... realistic, badass. A little more connected to Catwoman (as I understand it). Not as connected to the Joker or Dent, though ... but much more mob-involved than Hush.

Penguin -- Could be done as a mobster ... but probably not good enough to be the main villain. Not different enough from Maroni and/or Falcone to be threatening or push the story forward.

Bane -- I think he could be included as cameo like Zsasz was. Not a main villain though.

I ruled out The Riddler and Mr. Freeze because Nolan explicitly stated as much. Clayface, Ventriloquist/Scarface, Poison Ivy, Man-Bat, and Killer Croc are just too fantastical to fit in (as cool as Croc would be). Talia al Ghul is too much of a Catwoman knockoff, and too connected to an absent Ras backstory. Harley Quinn is too much of a Joker knockoff, and is problematic without a Joker recast. Red Hood has too much backstory that was left out of Nolan's universe (Robin/ Jason Todd, pre-Joker Joker, etc.).

I'm leaning toward thinking it'll be Hush or Black Mask, with Catwoman (possibly with either a Dent or Joker tie-in (or both)). Still, those aren't as big a names as for a lead villain as Joker or Two Face, so I'm not completely sold.

SnakeDoc

 

[intothevoid]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Good analysis and I agree with almost everything

 

[cr`]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

i think if the animated series could create a non-comic-based original character like harley quinn, and see her becoming popular, then the film can create original villain as well, especially with nolan involved.

nolan already paid his due. he brought out non-mainstream villains in the first film, he did the most popular ones in the second, i think it's time he invents someone unique for his third. it'll be nolan's lasting legacy to the bat universe.

just imagine, a new badass, from nolan's mind, to take the bat down. maybe that's what tom hardy is for?

 

[SnakeDoctor]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I think Nolan is more likely to adapt one of the existing villains to fit his concept than to invent one completely. There are a lot of options available -- he's unlikely to invent something that he couldn't have just adapted from an existing villain.

SnakeDoc

 

[cr`]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

yeah, but after joker every other villain would seem anticlimactic. an original creation will carry with it the element of hype and surprise.

catwoman will still be in it, of course. i think the most interesting thing about her is that she's in the grey zone. everyone else is either black or white, only catwoman strides the fine line in between. i think that will make for a very interesting dynamic with batman in nolan's universe.

 

[intothevoid]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

Interesting idea on Nolan potentially creating his own Villain - while I am absolutely sure he is fully capable of coming up with a very compelling villain, somehow I tend to agree with SnakeDoc; there's a huge variety of Bat Rogues to choose from, to suit any purpose - so I don't think a completely original villain is going to appear.. but I can't wait to find out

 

[hairlesswookiee]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

I think Nolan is more likely to adapt one of the existing villains to fit his concept than to invent one completely. There are a lot of options available -- he's unlikely to invent something that he couldn't have just adapted from an existing villain.

SnakeDoc

I don't see what the payoff would be either. Inventing a new villain from scratch would be a bad idea IMO. I would prefer him to have a Hush/Black Mask villain in this movie.

 

[cr`]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

i'm really really excited with the potential of tom hardy as a villain, i mean, this guy is a serious badass actor.

he is a chameleon.

 

[Sachiel]

Re: The Dark Knight Rises

how about these:
- gotham knight (implying the bat has been embraced by the people of gotham)
- shadow of the bat (implying the bat's legacy in gotham)
- batman triumphant (a nod to miller's TDKR and bookends the first film, batman begins, perfectly)

Gotham's Knight could work. Shadow of the Bat? Sounds cool. Batman Triumphant? Sounds awesome, but maybe it's too strong and decisive?

I'm also lukewarm at the title they chose, but I think there is a good reason why they went with it...

Batman Begins was self explanatory. (even that title sounds generic)

The Dark Knight could be looked at as (of coarse) about Batman, Harvey's fall from the White Knight, and considering what happens at the end of the movie... it was a dark night.

The Dark Knight Rises... well we can assume Wayne Manor will be rebuilt with a new batcave, new batmobile (maybe something else), new suit and gadgets. Batman will probably get redeemed in the eyes of the city.

It can also be looked at as the dark night rising. It's a continuation of what happened at the end of TDK.

Batman is wanted for murder. The freaks are taking over more. Escalation.

Things are going to get worse before they get better.

Considering this is the last in a trilogy, things will probably be hopeful at the end. I know I'm (to use Nolan's favorite word) excited to see what happens and were the characters end up.