The Force Awakens - Figure discussion (with SPOILERS!)

[JCFETT]

At least the Phantom Menace is its own original story and not a remake of the original Star Wars. Lucas intended to make Phantom Menace light hearted, it is the first entry into a macro story. Yes, the humor does go flat with adults but try watching that film with your kids. Every kid I know prefers the prequels to the originals, the problem is some people who grew up only on the OT is blinded by nostalgia. Phantom Menace and The Force Awakens are BOTH solid films who fail in very similar ways to find their footing.

Perhaps it was just the timing for cinema and how movies were being made during the time that the Prequels were made that has it suffer from the issues Star Wars fans find with it. But You watch the original Trilogy and watch any prequel it does NOT feel like the same series. I guess that's what 30 years does, but hey The Force Awakens does a MUCH better job. It's not about if kids like it or not, it's about is it STAR WARS. That's my thing. I'm all for kids enjoying it, but I don't need CGI animals farting on screen and daffy duck fumbling around on screen. That's not Star Wars man. I'm not gonna argue what's more important, or argue at all really because I get your angle. But for me Star Wars is about the story not the kids who enjoy it.

The force awakens was an honest attempt at carrying the torch of Star Wars. Whether it moved you or not... it was beautiful. You can't remake the magic of star wars. even with all the original actors. It's just something you have to accept. It will never be perfect, it can only be honest. And this is the most honest interpretation of carrying the story of Star Wars thus far whether you understand cinema, the characters, or the story itself or not. This is Star Wars. I'm proud of this movie and I'm happy with the questions it asked and the possibilities that are ahead. Totally look forward to what's to come in the next two movies. As well as the Rogue one!

 

[JCFETT]

lol...it's all good. We can agree to disagree. We are both Star Wars fans.

I'm with you on that man! I'm just happy we all enjoy star wars even if it's in different ways. I still own the prequels on DVD obviously, they are in the set, and I will let my kids enjoy it when that time comes (one in the oven). Star Wars is for everyone if it can be enjoyed in different ways I'm all for that.

 

[Mandible]

"Abrams also confirmed that some iconic actors reprised their roles: Ewan McGregor, Frank Oz… and a clever editing movie also brought the late Alec Guinness, who died in 2000 at the age of 86, back to the Star Wars universe."

Writers Guild of America screening and subsequent Q&A with Kasdan, Abrams and Arndt.

 

[JCFETT]

I'm not 100% sure why R2 didn't awaken until he did, but I think I was coming back from the bathroom. BB-8 had part of a map to find Luke Skywalker. R2 had a larger map, just missing that one chunk that BB-8 had for some reason. I'm sure they explained it, but I didn't catch the whole explanation and it seemed weird to me that Luke would, for some reason, send two droids out with partial maps of how to find him. Did he want someone to find him, or not? And why send two droids? Was it some kind of prophecy that the Ghost of Obi-Wan told him to do it, because it would help bring together Rey and friends? I don't know.

Someone was telling me that Luke (all in tune with the force, meditating on that island.. almost like being the watcher of the galaxy) he felt the disturbance in the force when Han was killed he felt Leia's pain and he awoke R2 with the map where to find him as he wanted to be found, finally. But then he looks all surprised when he is... but I think that's because he didn't expect it to be Rey? Especially with his lost lightsaber from Bespin? That's what I think at least.

 

[plasticcrapmoneywaster]

Perhaps it was just the timing for cinema and how movies were being made during the time that the Prequels were made that has it suffer from the issues Star Wars fans find with it. But You watch the original Trilogy and watch any prequel it does NOT feel like the same series. I guess that's what 30 years does, but hey The Force Awakens does a MUCH better job. It's not about if kids like it or not, it's about is it STAR WARS. That's my thing. I'm all for kids enjoying it, but I don't need CGI animals farting on screen and daffy duck fumbling around on screen. That's not Star Wars man. I'm not gonna argue what's more important, or argue at all really because I get your angle. But for me Star Wars is about the story not the kids who enjoy it.

The force awakens was an honest attempt at carrying the torch of Star Wars. Whether it moved you or not... it was beautiful. You can't remake the magic of star wars. even with all the original actors. It's just something you have to accept. It will never be perfect, it can only be honest. And this is the most honest interpretation of carrying the story of Star Wars thus far whether you understand cinema, the characters, or the story itself or not. This is Star Wars. I'm proud of this movie and I'm happy with the questions it asked and the possibilities that are ahead. Totally look forward to what's to come in the next two movies. As well as the Rogue one!

I get you didn't like the two-second fart scene before the pod race. But I must ask, did you object to the monster outside of Jabba's palace burping in RotJ? What about the Sarlacc having some gas after Boba Fett went for a goofy ass, slap-stick tumble into it.? What about Wicket being all adorable hitting himself in the face with a rock? Yeah, Jar Jar was over-the-top goofy but so where the ewoks. I mean c'mon a bunch of teddy bears taking down the Empire? THAT wasn't silly too??

All I'm saying is don't hold the OT on too high of a pedestal... They have their moments too.

 

[Wulf]

Perhaps it was just the timing for cinema and how movies were being made during the time that the Prequels were made that has it suffer from the issues Star Wars fans find with it. But You watch the original Trilogy and watch any prequel it does NOT feel like the same series.

They aren't supposed to feel the same.

I guess that's what 30 years does, but hey The Force Awakens does a MUCH better job.

Because 90% of the story is re-used from the originals, they went all on out with practical effects because people like you cried about it, they have most of the beloved cast from the originals and they have the CGI and technology of this decade compared to the prequels. But hey, yeah, it did a better job. Imo, the movie doesn't look closer to the originals aesthetically and visually. Looked more like JJ's Star Trek movies.

It's not about if kids like it or not, it's about is it STAR WARS. That's my thing.

It's not star wars, to you. For some, it is. Especially the generation who grew up on those movies. Yeah, I can understand most 40+ year olds sitting there watching The Phantom Menace not enjoying the movie back in 1999.. But they were made for the newer generation.

 

[Spark Extractor]

I'm not 100% sure why R2 didn't awaken until he did, but I think I was coming back from the bathroom. BB-8 had part of a map to find Luke Skywalker. R2 had a larger map, just missing that one chunk that BB-8 had for some reason. I'm sure they explained it, but I didn't catch the whole explanation and it seemed weird to me that Luke would, for some reason, send two droids out with partial maps of how to find him. Did he want someone to find him, or not? And why send two droids? Was it some kind of prophecy that the Ghost of Obi-Wan told him to do it, because it would help bring together Rey and friends? I don't know.

The partial map that R2 had was what he 'lifted' from the Death Star computers in ANH. So R2 didn't have that missing piece just like FO didn't have the piece because they said they salvaged the map info from their archives. The map was never a map of "where to find Luke Skywalker". Han says to Rey and Finn that "those that new him best believed that he went to find the first jedi temple". So the map the empire had was missing the info to find the 1st jedi temple which is info likely hidden on purpose. Von sydow's character must have been part of some group that was holding this information to keep it away from the then Empire and now FO. I don't think Luke 'did' anything. They new if they piece together the map to the temple, that they would most likely find Luke.

 

[Wulf]

Anyway, I'd love to add Hot Toys' Kylo Ren to my collection. But I'd like a version with an unmasked headsculpt. What are the chances that it will happen? Apparently Adam Driver isn't ready to see a figure of himself according to this interview (around 2.00 minute mark). Could that have had anything to do with the lack of an umasked headsculpt?

 

[JCFETT]

I get you didn't like the two-second fart scene before the pod race. But I must ask, did you object to the monster outside of Jabba's palace burping in RotJ? What about the Sarlacc having some gas after Boba Fett went for a goofy ass, slap-stick tumble into it.? What about Wicket being all adorable hitting himself in the face with a rock? Yeah, Jar Jar was over-the-top goofy but so where the ewoks. I mean c'mon a bunch of teddy bears taking down the Empire? THAT wasn't silly too??

It's kinda harsh to compare those moments, but if I play along... yeah a little slapstick and silliness is part of the Star Wars formula, but it comes in doses right? Kinda like at the right moments... sort of diffuses situations or just keeps the adventure fun. The difference is that Jar Jar follows the entire journey and is relentlessly reminding you he's there and is ruining all of the moments. Man it's unbearable. Threepio at comparison was at least momentary and tolerable. If we remove Jar Jar COMPLETELY, Qui Gon and Obi Wan would have carried the movie famously together, even with the ridiculous CGI moments, it could've stood on it's own two feet the way it wanted to better, and along with the special edition stuff added into the original it would've kinda had that consistency with all the CGI stuff. I really want to watch the movie I heard about where they edit Jar Jar out completely and it's actually decent lol. I guess when I really think about it and I type these thoughts out, Jar Jar is my biggest beef with it. I'll see how I feel about the next two Prequels as I get to them. Because I actually do enjoy some of the characters, costuming, prop-building (for the things they actually built) and their concepts from Phantom Menace. I'll always say... the story was there, it just didn't have the right focus on what was important about it. But again we all know Lucas made it for the kids. So I have to go back to the opinion that Lucas should not have been at the helm of this ship.

 

[Lumos]

Anyway, I'd love to add Hot Toys' Kylo Ren to my collection. But I'd like a version with an unmasked headsculpt. What are the chances that it will happen? Apparently Adam Driver isn't ready to see a figure of himself according to this interview (around 2.00 minute mark). Could that have had anything to do with the lack of an umasked headsculpt?

It sounds like he's more baffled by the idea of being an action figure rather than being super against it. I mean, it's a very new thing for most of the cast.

 

[JCFETT]

They aren't supposed to feel the same.



Because 90% of the story is re-used from the originals, they went all on out with practical effects because people like you cried about it, they have most of the beloved cast from the originals and they have the CGI and technology of this decade compared to the prequels. But hey, yeah, it did a better job. Imo, the movie doesn't look closer to the originals aesthetically and visually. Looked more like JJ's Star Trek movies.



It's not star wars, to you. For some, it is. Especially the generation who grew up on those movies. Yeah, I can understand most 40+ year olds sitting there watching The Phantom Menace not enjoying the movie back in 1999.. But they were made for the newer generation.

Our opinions aside... I watched the original trilogy, force awakens and phantom menace within a 4 day span. Phantom menace does not feel the same. I'm 31. I was in my teens when the prequels came up, and my brother who was born in the 70s raised on the originals and had all the star wars influence on me in the way that I am on a star wars forum talking about it 'till this day haha. So that's my background. What's yours? I'd like to understand what divides us, if you feel it is age. Because original Star Wars can be just as much for the kids as the Prequels. The only difference is the Phantom menace was very purposefully in disney like fashion for the kids. And the CGI detaches it, because it tries to carry it instead of compliment it. Force Awakens with the same actors or not, carries the story, whether it's the same story with the names changed, still carries the same torch as Star Wars in a way the prequels never can. We don't need to be divided star wars fans, I have lots of friends who think prequels are OK, but I guess if it comes down to it maybe you're right. Maybe you had to be born in mid-late 90s to really enjoy what the Prequels had to offer for you.

 

[JCFETT]

The partial map that R2 had was what he 'lifted' from the Death Star computers in ANH. So R2 didn't have that missing piece just like FO didn't have the piece because they said they salvaged the map info from their archives. The map was never a map of "where to find Luke Skywalker". Han says to Rey and Finn that "those that new him best believed that he went to find the first jedi temple". So the map the empire had was missing the info to find the 1st jedi temple which is info likely hidden on purpose. Von sydow's character must have been part of some group that was holding this information to keep it away from the then Empire and now FO. I don't think Luke 'did' anything. They new if they piece together the map to the temple, that they would most likely find Luke.

Man I'm completely lost here. BB-8 had a piece of the map. R2 had a backup of the map complete sans the missing piece BB had. And with that map they found Luke. I'm pretty sure everyone was aware and looking to find Luke, both good and bad guys. So not sure I understand what you mean, but that's what I took away from it.

 

[Spark Extractor]

Man I'm completely lost here. BB-8 had a piece of the map. R2 had a backup of the map complete sans the missing piece BB had. And with that map they found Luke. I'm pretty sure everyone was aware and looking to find Luke, both good and bad guys. So not sure I understand what you mean, but that's what I took away from it.

The map was not a map made by Luke telling the universe where he would be. The map was directions to the 1st jedi temple. Since that's where "people that new him best" thought he would go, they needed to get a complete map to the 1st jedi temple to find him. R2 had the nearly complete map he copied from the Empire (not FO) archives on the death star in ANH. The nameless 'good guys' (Sydow) had hidden away the missing piece to the puzzle to keep it out of the Empire's/FO's hands.

 

[therealjondoe]

The thing that makes you scratch your head is if the prequels were for kids why the hell did they have so much snooze inducing moments. Those dialogue heavy scenes where they discuss the government. It's nearly unwatchable.

 

[JCFETT]

actually now that I think of it, I know plenty of 501st guys who have clone kits and are older than me. So it can't just be an age thing. I mean it can still be enjoyed. But if we can agree that it was made for kids, then we can agree there and that's enough for me. Because I think that's enough to explain why it doesn't feel the same for me and I don't enjoy it. It's not the same rhythm of the original star wars. So in that way of thinking... Original Star Wars was made for everyone. TFA was made for everyone. Prequels are for kids? But it doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. What's funny is that my older brother really enjoyed the Prequels LOL. I guess it just comes down to how people enjoy star wars. I guess people enjoy it or treasure it in different ways. But TFA was definitely the star wars I was looking for.

 

[koon]

Ah, thanks, I recall that now, but I don't remember where they said Luke trained Ben to run off like that.

 

[JCFETT]

The map was not a map made by Luke telling the universe where he would be. The map was directions to the 1st jedi temple. Since that's where "people that new him best" thought he would go, they needed to get a complete map to the 1st jedi temple to find him. R2 had the nearly complete map he copied from the Empire (not FO) archives on the death star in ANH. The nameless 'good guys' (Sydow) had hidden away the missing piece to the puzzle to keep it out of the Empire's/FO's hands.

So why did the FO want it so bad unless they knew too... that they would find Luke there? Wasn't the whole movie about finding Luke in a way? Sorry I need to watch the movie a second time.

 

[plasticcrapmoneywaster]

It's kinda harsh to compare those moments, but if I play along... yeah a little slapstick and silliness is part of the Star Wars formula, but it comes in doses right? Kinda like at the right moments... sort of diffuses situations or just keeps the adventure fun. The difference is that Jar Jar follows the entire journey and is relentlessly reminding you he's there and is ruining all of the moments. Man it's unbearable. Threepio at comparison was at least momentary and tolerable. If we remove Jar Jar COMPLETELY, Qui Gon and Obi Wan would have carried the movie famously together, even with the ridiculous CGI moments, it could've stood on it's own two feet the way it wanted to better, and along with the special edition stuff added into the original it would've kinda had that consistency with all the CGI stuff. I really want to watch the movie I heard about where they edit Jar Jar out completely and it's actually decent lol. I guess when I really think about it and I type these thoughts out, Jar Jar is my biggest beef with it. I'll see how I feel about the next two Prequels as I get to them. Because I actually do enjoy some of the characters, costuming, prop-building (for the things they actually built) and their concepts from Phantom Menace. I'll always say... the story was there, it just didn't have the right focus on what was important about it. But again we all know Lucas made it for the kids. So I have to go back to the opinion that Lucas should not have been at the helm of this ship.

Jar Jar is the Phantom Menace's version of the classic buffoon. You see this character in many forms throughout classic literature. The character is designed to be the comic relief and often the harbinger of ironic destruction. Jar Jar does play this role exceptionally well, even if there are a few scenes that are a bit cringe worthy in TPM I do agree.

 

[Spark Extractor]

So why did the FO want it so bad unless they knew too... that they would find Luke there? Wasn't the whole movie about finding Luke in a way? Sorry I need to watch the movie a second time.

Yes, the whole movie was about finding Luke, but keep in mind "those that knew him best" doesn't just mean the good guys.

 

[JCFETT]

The thing that makes you scratch your head is if the prequels were for kids why the hell did they have so much snooze inducing moments. Those dialogue heavy scenes where they discuss the government. It's nearly unwatchable.

Great point. Absolutely, that was a whole other thing we really disliked watching phantom menace tonight. And actually something that I kinda cringed at in TFA when general hux was very 1940's hitler addressing his troops. I get that it was a nod at Lucas's influence of Nazi Germany, but it was just not really necessary, it didn't have to be so heavy, it could've been done differently. Like all the political background in phantom menace. Galactic Republic, Trade Confederation, the fact that Palps was actually trying to position him well in the Galactic Republic... like politics mattered to this sith lord.

It's kinda weird, but the only way I think of it happening this way was in how Lucas gathered in a room with all these creative people and let their imaginations run wild and the whole over-explaining things as a means they felt necessary, from the political conflict that divides the galaxy, to the jedi spirit. It was all just a bad approach to how to let these movies carry themselves.

But hey why kick dirt now. Haha. It's done and over with. Oh well, I guess it all could've been worse. I'm still happy with TFA and what's to come. Let's not let the 'wars divide us brothers and sisters. Meesa thinks weesa all the same <3