The Force Awakens - Figure discussion (with SPOILERS!)
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Keeping with the simple narrative, this makes sense in outline form. After seeing it again without all the "ok, blow me away" expectations, I'm really starting to love this movie. And keeping with simple narrative, I'm starting to think the least complicated thing to do would be that Snoke is Palpatine. I know that's super controversial, but it does keep the story and its inhabitants super simple and the DNA of the entire saga is maintained.
Btw, coming fresh from the theater, Snoke does say bring him Kylo, it's time to complete his training.
morphosis
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Snoke isnt Palpatine. as i said Snoke has an official bio and he was in the Clone Wars. ive seen it 4 times and i really think Snoke is just Snoke. I don't think they are going to make it that complex where everything is a twist.
yes he says to "complete his training" but its not Sith training. its not about using "just" the dark side as the Sith were.. its about using the light and the dark for balance in the force. thats what Snoke believes which is all in his official bio. Its a new Order....The First Order...whole new way of how the villain wants to use the Force to rule the Galaxy.
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Invictus Sol
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I guess I just find that odd. Like if Luke died, are you saying the "Jedi" would be "extinct" and any light side masters would somehow be distinct from the Jedi and something entirely new? Sith/Jedi to me are eternal and not limited to the rule of two or Vader and Palps both dying. Seems to me the information would get passed on in one way or another. Curious how this plays out.
morphosis
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The Sith originally were a larger Order, but after in-fighting and killing each other and Jedi killing them, Darth Bane changed the laws of the Sith Order there were only 2 Sith at a time. A Master and his Apprentice so that he could control in-fighting among the Sith Order. And then once Bane died, his Apprentice took over as the Master and they got their own Apprentice. Sith, from the Bane years on, were only ever 2 existing. No more, no less. No other Sith existed. Palpatine's Master was Plagueis...Then he killed Plagueis, and then eventually Maul was Palpatine's apprentice, and then Vader became Palpatine's apprentice in the films. In the EU, Palpatine had others, but just always 2 at a time.
The Jedi are different where they want to grow their numbers, but as of right now, only Luke is a Jedi, with Rey waiting in the wings. As TFA said, Kylo killed all of Luke's Padawans. Just Luke remains. In Eps 4-5-6, only Obi-Wan and Yoda were the remaining Jedi. Anakin killed the rest. Then Luke got his training. Once Obi-Wan and Yoda died, Luke was the last remaining living Jedi.
The Jedi are different where they want to grow their numbers, but as of right now, only Luke is a Jedi, with Rey waiting in the wings. As TFA said, Kylo killed all of Luke's Padawans. Just Luke remains. In Eps 4-5-6, only Obi-Wan and Yoda were the remaining Jedi. Anakin killed the rest. Then Luke got his training. Once Obi-Wan and Yoda died, Luke was the last remaining living Jedi.
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LoveMinusZero
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If Luke died the Jedi would indeed be extinct, the same way knights are, and the Samurai. We still have the teachings and know the traditions (somewhat) of both knighthood and the samurai, but there are no knights, there are no samurai.
morphosis
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actually I forgot to add, Count Dooku was Palpatine's (Darth Sideous) apprentice before Vader. Dooku was a Jedi Master, but he left the Jedi Order because he felt there was too much corruption and eventually became Darth Tyranus with Sideous secretly as his Master.
Dude relax we are all theory crafting here. No need for declarative statements. Palpatine was in the clone wars too. Ever heard of a double entendres? Just saying, if you keep the narrative simple, as JJ and LK have been saying, it makes sense for the force to stay the force, the good/light side to stay good/light, and the bad side to stay bad/dark...big baddie is still the big baddie. No need to explain a whole new way the force works. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
No one opinion here will be made valid until what, 2017? Besides, a ton of what you're quoting is from the EU era which is gone to legend, so even the rule of two is in question. Snoke could be Snoke, Daffy Duck, or even Palpatine. See, theory crafting. It's meant to be fun, not rained on with declarative guesses.
morphosis
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um ok, i didnt think i said anything that sounded harsh. sorry you took it the wrong way
I was trying to explain the Jedi and Sith to others. Some didn't know. Yes, I misspell all the time. *Sidious* I type to quick.
Not harsh, just "declarative" no worries. All good.
Btw I thought I had Finn figured out and finally gave in to him not being a force sensitive but then at the end when Rey kissed him was he wearing a farm boy Luke type ghee? Now I'm really wondering if Rey is Luke, Poe is Han, and Finn is Leia? He could totally be the new force sensitive military leader when next we see him. Instant JJ gender bender!
Btw I thought I had Finn figured out and finally gave in to him not being a force sensitive but then at the end when Rey kissed him was he wearing a farm boy Luke type ghee? Now I'm really wondering if Rey is Luke, Poe is Han, and Finn is Leia? He could totally be the new force sensitive military leader when next we see him. Instant JJ gender bender!
morphosis
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oh i wasnt meaning to be "declaritive" i think when i said "Snoke isn't Palpatine" I just didn't write that correctly. I just meant I dont think Snoke is Palpatine, which i mentioned a few statements below that that I think Snoke is Snoke. Sorry, i type fast and not always check that I wrote everything correctly.
My thoughts after reading more about Snoke over the past few days or so, is if he was in the Clone Wars according to Star Wars bios, i think it would be weird for him to be Palpatine, Sidious, and also Snoke. But hey, as you said "no one knows" anything, its all just guessing at this point....
And for more guessing, Finn I dont think has any Force sensitivity. In the books he was one of the better Stormtrooper cadets in training, Phasma thought he had leadership skills, but he was too sensitive to all the other Stormtroopers who were training in his group. He didnt want to hurt anyone. He had a tough time in real combat going against the Resistance in his first real mission, which apparently wasn't the Jakku battle we saw in TFA. I think in the end he will be his own person, maybe end up as a leader of some kind.
Again, just a guess...
I liked him a lot. He was really really good. FN-2187
Haven't had a moment to read the book and I'm sure by the time I get around to it, GRRM will drop WofW and then I'm all GoT for a few weeks/months.
YES I did notice FN-2187 mentioned he choked during his first combat mission and I was like wait, the opening act combat mission? Gotta get to that book.
I really think they left his character the most open of them all and there are a lot of roads they can have him take. Multi dimensional. Really going to be fun seeing what they do with him barring they don't do anything stupid. The 1st order requiring him to lure Rey is a very good premise as someone mentioned earlier. Really like that idea. Would get moma Phasma back in to play as well in a big way.
YES I did notice FN-2187 mentioned he choked during his first combat mission and I was like wait, the opening act combat mission? Gotta get to that book.
I really think they left his character the most open of them all and there are a lot of roads they can have him take. Multi dimensional. Really going to be fun seeing what they do with him barring they don't do anything stupid. The 1st order requiring him to lure Rey is a very good premise as someone mentioned earlier. Really like that idea. Would get moma Phasma back in to play as well in a big way.
morphosis
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When you read the books, you get a lot more of who Finn was as a person. I doubt he will be following any kind of First Order commands. He never liked the FO, and he didnt fit in because he had too much compassion for people. Even after the 20+ years of training to be a Stormtrooper, he never bought into it. He tried but he just couldn't.
But he had leadership skills and he's strong. He was very difficult to beat in training. He was usually #1 in his class. And he trained against Riot Troopers which made sense why he was able to hold his ground against the one in TFA.
I wouldn't be shocked if Finn doesnt see Rey again until film 3. I kind of hope thats the case, because her saying at the end i dont have the exact quote but when she says something like "I will see you again someday" it would be more powerful if she doesn't see him again until the 3rd film. But thats just me
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If you read Shattered Empire, you'll learn the only other Force sensitive character in TFA besides Kylo, Rey, Snoke & Luke is Poe. Even though Kylo didn't detect it, Poe's insane skills as a pilot were no coincidence.
When you read the books, you get a lot more of who Finn was as a person. I doubt he will be following any kind of First Order commands. He never liked the FO, and he didnt fit in because he had too much compassion for people. Even after the 20+ years of training to be a Stormtrooper, he never bought into it. He tried but he just couldn't.
But he had leadership skills and he's strong. He was very difficult to beat in training. He was usually #1 in his class. And he trained against Riot Troopers which made sense why he was able to hold his ground against the one in TFA.
I wouldn't be shocked if Finn doesnt see Rey again until film 3. I kind of hope thats the case, because her saying at the end i dont have the exact quote but when she says something like "I will see you again someday" it would be more powerful if she doesn't see him again until the 3rd film. But thats just me
Sorry, I meant that the FO would re-acquire him. Not require him. Man that typo sure changed what I wrote.
Agreed, having them not meet again till 9 would be more powerful for the story, but I hope that is not the case. Keep the chemistry going amongst the main cast just as in the OT.
Well the home Poe grew up in was next to a force tree. That (ironically) was a gift from Luke.
morphosis
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Well the home Poe grew up in was next to a force tree. That (ironically) was a gift from Luke.
I read Shattered Empire, Poe's mother was one of the better pilots in the Galaxy. So it runs in the family. I don't think that indicated Poe is Force sensitive other than she planted one of the Force Sensitive trees after her mission with Luke on the planet they retired and raised Poe on Yavin 4.
But neither her or her husband was Force Sensitive. They were both just really good soldiers, she was a great pilot.
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