The Force Awakens - Figure discussion (with SPOILERS!)

[SNIKT1950]

Hmm I might be able to buy that if they'd cast an older actress for Phasma. And if she'd had more of a presence in TFA. I know we will be seeing more of her, and I'm looking forward to it, but I'm not sure they'd spend such an insignificant time on the new protagonist's biological mother. I actually kind of like the theory that Felicity Jones' character in Rogue One is Rey's mother. At this point, anything is possible!

Phasma's role in TFA was similar to Vader's in ANH. She's a total mystery. She has four scenes (one was cut) and in all of them she just plays the faceless embodiment of the FO. I honestly didn't care for the character at all until I read about the theory that she's Rey's Mom. Now when I watch TFA I see someone who much like Vader - hates what she does but does it wonderfully because that's all she knows. If the theory is on point, Phasma will defect once she learns her daughter's alive and assist Luke in destroying the FO. She'd be a tremendous help to the Resistance.

Also, Gwendoline Christie is 40. Rey is 19 in TFA so Phasma was in her 20s when she had Rey. That works, specially if she was just a young Imperial Officer when the Resistance captured her.

 

[IarnaOrgana]

Phasma's role in TFA was similar to Vader's in ANH. She's a total mystery. She has four scenes (one was cut) and in all of them she just plays the faceless embodiment of the FO. I honestly didn't care for the character at all until I read about the theory that she's Rey's Mom. Now when I watch TFA I see someone who much like Vader - hates what she does but does it wonderfully because that's all she knows. If the theory is on point, Phasma will defect once she learns her daughter's alive and assist Luke in destroying the FO. She'd be a tremendous help to the Resistance.

Also, Gwendoline Christie is 40. Rey is 19 in TFA so Phasma was in her 20s when she had Rey. That works, specially if she was just a young Imperial Officer when the Resistance captured her.

Interesting take. However, if I remember correctly, Rey had no interactions with Phasma in TFA. In ANH, Luke has been told Vader killed his father and he sees him kill Ben. These are pretty good reasons for him to despise Vader, making the familial connection all the more disturbing in ESB. I would have hoped that they'd have included at least one more poignant scene with Phasma if she were to be revealed as a member of Rey's family. The reveal of Phasma being her mother would fall flatter than the Luke/Vader moment at this point. Besides, if we subscribe to the idea that she is a Skywalker in some capacity, Rey already has a member of her family on the Dark Side: Kylo. I think Ep VIII and IX will follow her path to bringing Kylo back to the light.

 

[SNIKT1950]

Interesting take. However, if I remember correctly, Rey had no interactions with Phasma in TFA. In ANH, Luke has been told Vader killed his father and he sees him kill Ben. These are pretty good reasons for him to despise Vader, making the familial connection all the more disturbing in ESB. I would have hoped that they'd have included at least one more poignant scene with Phasma if she were to be revealed as a member of Rey's family.

After 4 viewings I realized If Phasma had encountered Rey just once in TFA she would have realized she'd been lied to for over a decade & would have defected from the FO immediately, robbing VIII & IX of a great arc for her.

That poignant scene can be a battle sequence in VIII where Phasma encounters Rey and the camera stays on her the way it stayed on FN-2187 when he lost his edge during the massacre at Jakku. Then after the battle, cut to Phasma in her quarters where we finally see what's under the helmet and its a woman broken by the realization that she's fighting for the wrong side and that her family is still out there. Unlike the Vader arc where Vader had to die to be redeemed, Phasma can actually get a happy ending and rejoin Rey and Luke by defecting [once more]. I'd love a moment where Luke confronts her and just asks "Why???" and her answer is as simple as it gets ---> "I thought my family was dead."

I think Ep VIII and IX will follow her path to bringing Kylo back to the light.

I'm hoping Kylo gets no redemption. I want him to be inherently evil and not tragic like his grandfather.

 

[Wor-Gar]

'Phasma as Rey's mother' is the kind of fan-theory you get when Lucas decides that Vader built 3PO.

Suddenly everyone thinks everything must be connected.


I don't buy that theory for a minute. If she has any storyline, it would be in pursuit of Finn -- because Finn is in desperate need of some storyline for his character. Rey has enough already. Let Phasma and Finn have the past that pits them against each other for dramatic result.

 

[IarnaOrgana]

But Kylo is not inherently evil. He constantly feels a pull to the light, which Snoke detects. In fact, the novelization of TFA states that killing Han did not make him stronger, as he thought it would, but rather weakens his powers. If they were going to depict Kylo as wholly unredeemable I doubt we would have gotten the characterization we did in TFA.

If she has any storyline, it would be in pursuit of Finn -- because Finn is in desperate need of some storyline for his character. Rey has enough already. Let Phasma and Finn have the past that pits them against each other for dramatic result.

I have to agree with this. Phasma will continue being a major player in the FO, searching for Finn, rooting out the Resistance, but I don't think she'll be much more than that.

 

[SNIKT1950]

Phasma will continue being a major player in the FO, searching for Finn, rooting out the Resistance, but I don't think she'll be much more than that.

That sounds incredibly underwhelming and pretty much goes against Kathleen Kennedy's "big plans for Phasma" comments.

 

[Wor-Gar]

That sounds incredibly underwhelming and pretty much goes against Kathleen Kennedy's "big plans for Phasma" comments.

Why are you reading into Kathleen's comment? "Big plans" could simply mean she's a recurring character that has an impact on the next story -- wouldn't take much after her 'guest appearance' in TFA. For example, recapturing Finn and torturing him would be fairly significant... and would certainly up Phasma's story cred. Assuming she has to be part of the Skywalker mythology is just an alternate assumption with no more validity.

 

[IarnaOrgana]

That sounds incredibly underwhelming and pretty much goes against Kathleen Kennedy's "big plans for Phasma" comments.

Perhaps you misunderstood my meaning. By "she won't be much more than that" I meant "she won't be a member of the Skywalker family"
I'm sure she'll get some great badass moments in the coming episodes. She can be cool, powerful, etc etc without being part of Rey's family tree.

 

[WWEJedi]

Was there really someone named Ekons?

Translated Ekons means Echo, who was a clone on the animated show Star Wars The Clone Wars. He died and some think it is a clone who is Snoke.

 

[automaton]

Rey being Luke’s daughter feels like a given…

Kylo is past the point of being redeemable… i don’t think he will mirror Anakin in this way…. i do think we will see him become more “mechanical”

Ren’s saber appeared to swipe Finn’s spine… perhaps he will rely on some sort of cybernetic enhancements?

Phasma will hopefully not succumb to any of the theories i have just read within these past few pages… keep her mysterious…

 

[crisis]

Kylo is past the point of being redeemable…

why, because he killed his dad? If Anakin can be redeemed after MURDERING SEVERAL CHILDREN, then Ben Solo can be redeemed as well

 

[Wor-Gar]

Translated Ekons means Echo....

In what language?

That's a crazy theory BTW, I was just screwing around. Clearly so was the guy who likely started this "theory" in the same way and, like so many others I've read in here, it still gets mileage from rabid fans.


And of course Kylo will be "redeemed"... whether he lives or not doing it would be the question.

TFA would be pointless -- much moreso than if Phasma wasn't Luke's mother -- if the key character who is awash in a battle between the good and light Force just ultimately became a straight villain with no story beyond that.

I can't believe someone who thinks Kylo should just be a straight villain also thinks Phasma should lay claim as Rey's mom. I want what you're smoking.

 

[IarnaOrgana]

Kylo is past the point of being redeemable… i don’t think he will mirror Anakin in this way…. i do think we will see him become more “mechanical”

I don't agree that Kylo couldn't be redeemed. Vader was redeemed by saving one life - his son's. This was after slaughtering Jedi children and being responsible for untold innocent deaths between ROTS and ROTJ.

 

[crisis]

Maybe he won't be "redeemed" in the traditional sense, but I can def see Kylo sacrificing himself as penance for all the sins he's committed, sort of like a cathartic "I know I did wrong, it's too late for me to be a good guy, but I refuse to continue being a bad guy" & go out in an explosive glory.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I can def see Kylo sacrificing himself as penance for all the sins he's committed, sort of like a cathartic "I know I did wrong, it's too late for me to be a good guy, but I refuse to continue being a bad guy" & go out in an explosive glory.

That's my bet as well.... and likely to save Rey (his sister/cousin).

It's also much more fitting... he then does complete what Vader started.

 

[SNIKT1950]

I can't believe someone who thinks Kylo should just be a straight villain also thinks Phasma should lay claim as Rey's mom. I want what you're smoking.

I find it hilarious that you're so against Phasma being the mother when its so easy to digest.

Rey's accent is already a huge clue.

But, let's hear who you think the mother should be and how not having the mother be an Imperial is more compelling.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I find it hilarious that you're so against Phasma being the mother when its so easy to digest.

Rey's accent is already a huge clue.

But, let's hear who you think the mother should be and how not having the mother be an Imperial is more compelling.

I've given zero thought to Rey's mother...as, like Anakin's father, it is inconsequential.

Going by accent then, Hux could be her father. That's a silly anecdote and not a 'huge clue'. Anyway, I just don't buy that theory, that's all. It's not something I believe the filmmakers would do.

 

[SNIKT1950]

I've given zero thought to Rey's mother...as, like Anakin's father, it is inconsequential.

What a crock of **** LMAO!!! What else is "inconsequential"? Snoke's background? The origin of the Knights of Ren?

Going by accent then, Hux could be her father. That's a silly anecdote.

And you call yourself a fan. in the OT mostly Imperials have British accents. Rebels sound American. In TFA all of the Resistance have American accents and all of the FO [sans Kylo - who was born Resistance] have British accents. Silly coincidence? Nah, bruh. No cigar for you.

 

[TaliBane]

The article follows the same cynical we're-so-cool formula I see all over the Web.

It's okay to critique TFA and it has its flaws, but sometimes I think people forget what they're watching. I don't go out for chicken wings and beers and compare it to 60 day dry-aged ribeye with a super Tuscan.

As usual, people are drawing conclusions as to how a stormtrooper needs to be this badass killer. I dunno, I've met a number of real-life soldiers and seen enough of them on documentaries and news clips. Grunts are just like everyone else, and there were "regular guys" in A NEW HOPE chatting about "that new BT-16". Boyega did a better job with his material than most of the original cast in ANH.

The only thing I'll remotely agree with is the treatment of Poe's character. He had a great moment with Ren when he was staring death in the face and was cocky as ****, but the character was otherwise given no chance to be anything but a guy in a pilot suit, for the most part. Not his fault and maybe we see more down the line.

I'm assuming the "article" you mention is my posting? Slightly confused.

And I think most would agree that you can't compare men who volunteer to serve their democratic nation as both a career and a duty - call them "grunts" if you will - with men who are (apparently - it's totally unclear, but he only has a number) bred and raised from infancy solely to militarily serve a dictatorship/militant group whose modus operandi appears to be the routine massacre of innocents, sometimes by the millions - evil acts directly ordered from the highest levels of their command.

They just really and honestly aren't the same thing - at all.

Without any further information about Finn's upbringing, it's actually hard to really make an argument one way or the other - and that omission of any detail is another of TFA's "have my cake and eat it too" problems re: Finn. They don't want to say "clone" because it brings to mind the PT and it's a little weird to have Rey interact with a clone, yet they just give Finn a number and his apparent "raised to be a stormtrooper" thing (and Poe's reaction to that apparently odd fact) - two things which just don't add up.

I mean are they volunteers (hence the need for Hux's rallying speech)? Bred to kill, but not clones (hmm... they don't need a speech)? Seized babies (hey, it's what ISIS does, but maybe they need a bit of a speech)? Oh, but nice-guy Finn turns against it because he's not that kinda guy.

But because there's no context provided of how it all works - at all - Finn's backstory is rendered sort of meaningless (the reason that his stormtrooper "secret" turns out to be a non-starter - Rey just goes "huh" when she finds out.) We're just filling in the blanks as we see fit, not really based on what's presented in the movie. All I see onscreen is a golly-gosh guy (that works only because we know nothing about his stormtrooper backstory) who "rebelled against what he was supposed to do" (which is meaningless because we know absolutely nothing about his stormtrooper backstory)

This is not "cynical" - it's just looking deeply at what's onscreen, what people have done with SW since 1977.

 

[IarnaOrgana]

and you call yourself a fan. in the OT mostly Imperials have British accents. Rebels sound American. In TFA all of the Resistance have American accents and all of the FO [sans Kylo - who was born Resistance] have British accents. Silly coincidence? Nah, bruh. No cigar for you.

All of the FO have British accents? I'll raise you Finn. Why doesn't FN-2187 have a British accent if he was raised with the FO? The "law" that Resistance members speak with American accents and the Baddies have British accents has already been broken.