The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

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Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

Well, back during LOTR years, people were whining that Gandalf's only power was eminating a little bit of light from his staff.

I appreciate mystery and restrain, but he is a wizard after all. A little bit of pyrotechnics is called for sometimes. Especially when facing someone as powerfull as Sauron.
 
Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

I really hope they don't do that, the idea, the mystery, that these people are immensely powerful is far more effective then an over the top Dragon Ball Z ki battle with magic orbs and power blasts. Of course after seeing the Dol Guldur sequence in DOS I am convinced that is exactly what will happen. Prepare for magic light show, people!

I think a lot of people are looking forward to that.
 
Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

It would be interesting to see another director have a go at the whole thing starting with the Hobbit. Make a more somber and earthy(middle) affair without getting overly cute/hokey as is PJ's tendency. It will never happen though because filmmakers are stuck chasing after children's attention to make a profit (or only break even for the Tolkien estate). :lol
 
Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

Make a more somber and earthy(middle) affair

You allready had that in PJ original trilogy (well, minus the occasional shield surfing). You don't get more grounded and earthy than FOTR in the genre of tolkienesqe, heroic fantasy.
 
Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

You allready had that in PJ original trilogy (well, minus the occasional shield surfing). You don't get more grounded and earthy than FOTR in the genre of tolkienesqe, heroic fantasy.

Not yet. I wasn't a huge fan of how the hobbits were depicted. Gandalf could have been more menacing and Gollum was a tad more cartoony/less monstrous than I'd ever imagined him. The old criticisms are still there and if anything serve as fuel for a new interpretation.

I'm going to be realistic and say that the entire film industry would probably need to change before I'd see the kind of adaptation I'd like to see. If I should live so long. The best kinds of stories are the ones we don't want to see or hear at first. Let the audience take what they want from it, but don't hump their leg with theme park action sequences.
 
Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

I'm going to be realistic and say that the entire film industry would probably need to change before I'd see the kind of adaptation I'd like to see.

Sorry but in case of LOTR, I don't think what You're saying has much to do with the way movie industry works. I get what You are talking about. We don't really see any truly astethicaly gritty or earthly movies today (we hear "gritty" a lot, but its bull****. Hollywood hasn't made a single truly gritty blockbuster since the 80's). But in case of LOTR PJ had carte blanche from the producers and he and Weta never sacraficed their vision based on how Hollywood expects fantasy films to look like. Everything looked they way it looked in that trilogy, becouse it fit the source material.

For example Your complaint about the Hobbits is, well...strange to say the least. They weren't cartoony or caricatural. Just becouse they were a bright, old-english jolly race, doesn't mean they weren't grounded. There wasn't anything flashy, unrealistic or "hollywoody" about them. Can't really imagin any director who would take an even more grounded approach with them (and how would that even look like).

Same goes for Gandalf. He was stern and often scornful, but filled with just enough "old man warmth and compassion" to make him endearing. And even if You imagined him differently, I don't really see whats flashy or hollywood'y about McKellen's potrayal.

Generally, I think You might be mistaking "grounded" and "earthy" with "Dark". Middle Earth isn't Conan's Hyboria. In fact "grounded" and "earthy" is exactly how PJ's original trology was often described. A few over the top moments didn't infleunce the generall vibe in my opinion.

Let the audience take what they want from it, but don't hump their leg with theme park action sequences.

Well, thats a criticism more for the newest trilogy, since in the old one, Jackson's over-the-top indulgences were just singular moments, rather then the general flow of the films.
 
Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

We don't need to see that. In FotR Gandalf isn't even aware of Saruman's treachery so the scene where Gandelf goes to Orthanc seeking counsel would lose it's potency.

No it wouldnt...If Saruman Finds it and hides it from everyone it would lose nothing and would show why or what helped Saruman change sides
 
Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

Sorry but in case of LOTR, I don't think what You're saying has much to do with the way movie industry works. I get what You are talking about. We don't really see any truly astethicaly gritty or earthly movies today (we hear "gritty" a lot, but its bull****. Hollywood hasn't made a single truly gritty blockbuster since the 80's). But in case of LOTR PJ had carte blanche from the producers and he and Weta never sacraficed their vision based on how Hollywood expects fantasy films to look like. Everything looked they way it looked in that trilogy, becouse it fit the source material.

For example Your complaint about the Hobbits is, well...strange to say the least. They weren't cartoony or caricatural. Just becouse they were a bright, old-english jolly race, doesn't mean they weren't grounded. There wasn't anything flashy, unrealistic or "hollywoody" about them. Can't really imagin any director who would take an even more grounded approach with them (and how would that even look like).

Same goes for Gandalf. He was stern and often scornful, but filled with just enough "old man warmth and compassion" to make him endearing. And even if You imagined him differently, I don't really see whats flashy or hollywood'y about McKellen's potrayal.

Generally, I think You might be mistaking "grounded" and "earthy" with "Dark". Middle Earth isn't Conan's Hyboria. In fact "grounded" and "earthy" is exactly how PJ's original trology was often described. A few over the top moments didn't infleunce the generall vibe in my opinion.



Well, thats a criticism more for the newest trilogy, since in the old one, Jackson's over-the-top indulgences were just singular moments, rather then the general flow of the films.

It's tough to discuss what would be better before seeing it so I'll just say "I'll know when I see it." Jackson did have his triumphs as far as I'm concerned. The Nazgul, Aragorn, Elrond, Rivendell, Sauron, the ring effects to name a few.

My issue with the hobbits centers around Merry and Frodo mostly. I could let the actors share the blame on that but it happened on PJ's watch. EW is one of the least convincing actors of all time and I envisioned Frodo as much more of an adult. I know all about his relative age in hobbit years, but hobbits are supposed to be different from humans in important ways as Tolkien established from the start. Jackson's main urge was to "humanize" them and mainly by injecting a large amount of dumb jackassery in the process.

As for Gandalf, I thought Christopher Lee and McKellen should have switched roles. McKellen is good, but too outwardly pleasant and approachable. Imagine wanting to run away from Gandalf instead of jumping on his lap like an oversized homeless Santa. Imagine wanting to like Saruman but knowing you shouldn't. It's not everyone's vision, just mine.
 
Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

It's tough to discuss what would be better before seeing it so I'll just say "I'll know when I see it." Jackson did have his triumphs as far as I'm concerned. The Nazgul, Aragorn, Elrond, Rivendell, Sauron, the ring effects to name a few.

My issue with the hobbits centers around Merry and Frodo mostly. I could let the actors share the blame on that but it happened on PJ's watch. EW is one of the least convincing actors of all time and I envisioned Frodo as much more of an adult. I know all about his relative age in hobbit years, but hobbits are supposed to be different from humans in important ways as Tolkien established from the start. Jackson's main urge was to "humanize" them and mainly by injecting a large amount of dumb jackassery in the process.

As for Gandalf, I thought Christopher Lee and McKellen should have switched roles. McKellen is good, but too outwardly pleasant and approachable. Imagine wanting to run away from Gandalf instead of jumping on his lap like an oversized homeless Santa. Imagine wanting to like Saruman but knowing you shouldn't. It's not everyone's vision, just mine.

Interesting about switching Gandalfs. Lee would have been more like the Gandalf in the 77 animated film.

I wonder what everyone would have thought if PJ had his first choice, Sean Connery.


Also, I'm not the biggest EW fan, but I thought he did pretty good.

Weren't merry and Pippin supposed to be the young hobbits in the book? I can't remember their ages.
 
Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

Interesting about switching Gandalfs. Lee would have been more like the Gandalf in the 77 animated film.

I wonder what everyone would have thought if PJ had his first choice, Sean Connery.


Also, I'm not the biggest EW fan, but I thought he did pretty good.

Weren't merry and Pippin supposed to be the young hobbits in the book? I can't remember their ages.

McKellen was definitely a better choice in my mind than Connery.

Merry and Pippin were the youngest, with Pippin the smartest. It might have been better if those two actors switched roles too. Monaghan's face looks like it's been hit by a two-by-four when he tries to act lol. Maybe he can't help it. :nana:
 
Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

McKellen was definitely a better choice in my mind than Connery.

Merry and Pippin were the youngest, with Pippin the smartest. It might have been better if those two actors switched roles too. Monaghan's face looks like it's been hit by a two-by-four when he tries to act lol. Maybe he can't help it. :nana:

Ok, I haven't read the books in about Ten Years. I might dust them off soon.

interesting, because in the films Pippin is the silliest.
 
Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

I wonder what everyone would have thought if PJ had his first choice, Sean Connery.

Probably something along the lines of:

"You shall not PASHHH!"
;)

McKellen was perfect in my opinion. At times he had that stern, no-nonsense aura of a man, who has no time for stupid bull**** and could be quick to scorn people. But at the same time he eminated enough warmth and genuine compassion.
 
Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

no spoilers please

Darth Vader is Luke's father
i+started+laughing+like+a+evil+maniac+when+the+reins+_a48c6356c3985ba237c42432c303bb69.jpg
 
Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

Ok, I haven't read the books in about Ten Years. I might dust them off soon.

interesting, because in the films Pippin is the silliest.

Playful but not buffoonish, which is the first adjective that comes to mind when I see Dom's mug in action. His bright idea to turn around Treebeard felt like Og's coming up with "The Most Fabulous Object in the World".
 
Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

We don't need to see that. In FotR Gandalf isn't even aware of Saruman's treachery so the scene where Gandelf goes to Orthanc seeking counsel would lose it's potency.

That's why I think if you do something it has to be very subtle as to not ruin that moment.

It would be interesting to see another director have a go at the whole thing starting with the Hobbit. Make a more somber and earthy(middle) affair without getting overly cute/hokey as is PJ's tendency. It will never happen though because filmmakers are stuck chasing after children's attention to make a profit (or only break even for the Tolkien estate). :lol

Gonna have to pass on your idea though. I think what Jackson did matches how the books are.
 
Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

Mark my word:
Tauriel will die, along with you-know-who-else

*not spoiler, just speculation
 
Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

Same. I know Galadriel is not a wizard, but I've always gotten the sense that she's extremely powerful...

She is very powerful...

That sounds pretty powerful. I got the sense form the first hobbit film that she was more powerful, but either way I'm looking forward to more Dol Guldor in part 3.

If Arwen could summon a wave of water to drown the Nazgul, imagine what Galadriel could do. :galadriel
 
Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

If Arwen could summon a wave of water to drown the Nazgul, imagine what Galadriel could do. :galadriel

Pretty much. Though to be fair in the book it was actually Elrond and it looked like horses because of Gandalf.
 
Re: The Hobbit: There and Back Again

Pretty much. Though to be fair in the book it was actually Elrond and it looked like horses because of Gandalf.

Dammit, spolier tags! You ruined the book for me. I haven't read it yet. :nana:
 
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