The Mandalorian (Star Wars Live Action Series)

[Khev]

Absolutely Fav/Filoni/Feige need to be given full control of SW and useless KK kicked to the curb

Also oh man this is so true.

"Okay everyone let's all share a meaningful memory of SW."

KK: "Um when I served coffee on The Last Crusade I remember George saying that he wanted to do more SW films."

Hnnng. Okay Kathleen thank you for bringing Gilroy to help out with RO and for letting JJ make Rey a Palpatine but now please just go, lol.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I can't believe everyone's drooling over Filoni's speech about Qui-Gon's death being an impetus of sorts for Anakin's turn to the dark side. I just traveled back in time to 1997 and told my younger self that the reason Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader was because Qui-Gon Jinn died instead of Obi-Wan. Here's what my 1997 self said: "Who the **** is Qui-Gon Jinn?"

Aren't *all* of the Jedi younglings there without fathers? Isn't that the point? That you take them from a very early age before they have a chance to form attachments to a father (or mother). If anything, Anakin was better suited than any of them because he *never* had a father to begin with. And he seemed pretty damned selfless and generous before any Jedi showed up. He wasn't some screwed up kid with a faulty moral compass and vulnerability from lack of fatherly guidance. All this speech does is basically insinuate that Obi-Wan screwed up with Anakin. Well, who trained Obi-Wan? Oh yeah! It was Qui-Gon Jinn!

Sorry, but saying that the "duel of the fates" was a key determining factor in Anakin's eventual fall is just further evidence of the lack of coherency in the PT narrative. It wasn't well established, or even followed up on. Anakin didn't befriend Palpatine as a father figure, FFS. He only rescued him in ROTS to save Padme, and then blabbed to Luke (in ESB) about wanting to kill and overthrow him. "The father figure he never had." Say what!? How was that ever portrayed on screen with even any coherent subtext? GTFO.

Filoni's passion for SW deserves the ultimate respect, but this sudden willingness to put him in charge of everything ignores the fact that passion doesn't equal filmmaking competence. Would we get more things like Mando (which Favreau has a lot to do with)? Or more things like Stinky the Hutt and hyperspace-capable flying whales? If it's the latter, then no thanks. Lots of people have passion and knowledge of SW, but that doesn't make them storytelling visionaries and great filmmakers.

 

[jye4ever]

I can't believe everyone's drooling over Filoni's speech about Qui-Gon's death being an impetus of sorts for Anakin's turn to the dark side. I just traveled back in time to 1997 and told my younger self that the reason Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader was because Qui-Gon Jinn died instead of Obi-Wan. Here's what my 1997 self said: "Who the **** is Qui-Gon Jinn?"

Aren't *all* of the Jedi younglings there without fathers? Isn't that the point? That you take them from a very early age before they have a chance to form attachments to a father (or mother). If anything, Anakin was better suited than any of them because he *never* had a father to begin with. And he seemed pretty damned selfless and generous before any Jedi showed up. He wasn't some screwed up kid with a faulty moral compass and vulnerability from lack of fatherly guidance. All this speech does is basically insinuate that Obi-Wan screwed up with Anakin. Well, who trained Obi-Wan? Oh yeah! It was Qui-Gon Jinn!

Sorry, but saying that the "duel of the fates" was a key determining factor in Anakin's eventual fall is just further evidence of the lack of coherency in the PT narrative. It wasn't well established, or even followed up on. Anakin didn't befriend Palpatine as a father figure, FFS. He only rescued him in ROTS to save Padme, and then blabbed to Luke (in ESB) about wanting to kill and overthrow him. "The father figure he never had." Say what!? How was that ever portrayed on screen with even any coherent subtext? GTFO.

Filoni's passion for SW deserves the ultimate respect, but this sudden willingness to put him in charge of everything ignores the fact that passion doesn't equal filmmaking competence. Would we get more things like Mando (which Favreau has a lot to do with)? Or more things like Stinky the Hutt and hyperspace-capable flying whales? If it's the latter, then no thanks. Lots of people have passion and knowledge of SW, but that doesn't make them storytelling visionaries and great filmmakers.

Savage lol

Filoni and Nolan, world class directors lol

Nonetheless Filoni still talked up a good game everyone at the table was mesmerized well except for KK, that?s called jealousy.


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[Khev]

I can't believe everyone's drooling over Filoni's speech about Qui-Gon's death being an impetus of sorts for Anakin's turn to the dark side. I just traveled back in time to 1997 and told my younger self that the reason Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader was because Qui-Gon Jinn died instead of Obi-Wan. Here's what my 1997 self said: "Who the **** is Qui-Gon Jinn?"

Aren't *all* of the Jedi younglings there without fathers? Isn't that the point? That you take them from a very early age before they have a chance to form attachments to a father (or mother). If anything, Anakin was better suited than any of them because he *never* had a father to begin with. And he seemed pretty damned selfless and generous before any Jedi showed up. He wasn't some screwed up kid with a faulty moral compass and vulnerability from lack of fatherly guidance. All this speech does is basically insinuate that Obi-Wan screwed up with Anakin. Well, who trained Obi-Wan? Oh yeah! It was Qui-Gon Jinn!

Sorry, but saying that the "duel of the fates" was a key determining factor in Anakin's eventual fall is just further evidence of the lack of coherency in the PT narrative. It wasn't well established, or even followed up on. Anakin didn't befriend Palpatine as a father figure, FFS. He only rescued him in ROTS to save Padme, and then blabbed to Luke (in ESB) about wanting to kill and overthrow him. "The father figure he never had." Say what!? How was that ever portrayed on screen with even any coherent subtext? GTFO.

Filoni's passion for SW deserves the ultimate respect, but this sudden willingness to put him in charge of everything ignores the fact that passion doesn't equal filmmaking competence. Would we get more things like Mando (which Favreau has a lot to do with)? Or more things like Stinky the Hutt and hyperspace-capable flying whales? If it's the latter, then no thanks. Lots of people have passion and knowledge of SW, but that doesn't make them storytelling visionaries and great filmmakers.

Actually back in 2005 Lucas did indeed say that Palpatine kneeling over Anakin on Mustafar was a deliberate fatherly gesture meant to parallel Ben coming to Luke's aid from the Sandpeople.

"Duel of the [two Anakin] Fates" referring to a literal duel to determine the course of Anakin's destiny (good or bad) is actually really cool to me. It doesn't mean that that was properly conveyed solely in the context of the PT or that they are suddenly well made films but I really like the idea nonetheless.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Actually back in 2005 Lucas did indeed say that Palpatine kneeling over Anakin on Mustafar was a deliberate fatherly gesture meant to parallel Ben coming to Luke's aid from the Sandpeople.

"Duel of the [two Anakin] Fates" referring to a literal duel to determine the course of Anakin's destiny (good or bad) is actually really cool to me. It doesn't mean that that was properly conveyed solely in the context of the PT or that they are suddenly well made films but I really like the idea nonetheless.

Dude, I'm not saying that George didn't have these things in mind, but it doesn't line up with how the stories actually play out. Yes, the *idea* itself is a cool one. But does that idea get portrayed effectively and does it line up with the actual delivery over the the course of the whole saga? Intent is all well and good, but if you need to explain it 20 years later, it wasn't executed well. Period.

You can't just ignore Anakin and Vader's onscreen behavior when trying to suggest that he and Palps had a father-son dynamic. They didn't. If George meant them to, he wasn't making that evident enough in either the OT or the PT. Instead, he established Anakin as mature beyond his years and capable of shouldering responsibility with good-natured intent from a very early age.

Anakin went through the same training as every other Jedi. If you want to say that they *all* got screwed up the same way, that's a whole different argument. But pretending that Anakin's problem was that he was uniquely in need of a father figure doesn't line up enough with the character and interactions that I saw over six movies.

 

[jye4ever]

Dude, I'm not saying that George didn't have these things in mind, but it doesn't line up with how the stories actually play out. Yes, the *idea* itself is a cool one. But does that idea get portrayed effectively and does it line up with the actual delivery over the the course of the whole saga? Intent is all well and good, but if you need to explain it 20 years later, it wasn't executed well. Period.

You can't just ignore Anakin and Vader's onscreen behavior when trying to suggest that he and Palps had a father-son dynamic. They didn't. If George meant them to, he wasn't making that evident enough in either the OT or the PT. Instead, he established Anakin as mature beyond his years and capable of shouldering responsibility with good-natured intent from a very early age.

Anakin went through the same training as every other Jedi. If you want to say that they *all* got screwed up the same way, that's a whole different argument. But pretending that Anakin's problem was that he was uniquely in need of a father figure doesn't line up enough with the character and interactions that I saw over six movies.

How about the loss of a mother figure at an early age lol

Did Duel of the Fates address that as well.

Was Padme the mother lol


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[ajp4mgs]

How about the loss of a mother figure at an early age lol

Did Duel of the Fates address that as well.

Was Padme the mother lol


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Yeah, Padme was filling Anakin's need for a mother figure. The incest is strong with the Skywalkers.

 

[Khev]

All anyone is saying that it was a good "idea" so I guess I'm not understanding the back and forth on whether it was implemented well or not. Clearly it wasn't. Since since we can take it as a "canon" idea (20 years after the fact or not) then at least going forward it's a cool element to keep in mind when watching that particular bit in TPM.

And based on what Filoni said Anakin *was* unique because he alone was trained after attachments to family had already been hardcoded into his DNA. I like the idea that Qui Gon was going to train him with those attachments constantly in mind and that Obi-Wan was simply given an unfair burden (without proper briefing on the context with which Qui Gon planned to keep in mind). To me that makes Anakin's outcome *less* Obi-Wan's fault, not more. He himself was a freaking Padawan when Qui Gon made him swear to train Anakin!

And I like that Yoda was the only Jedi Master to realize that Qui Gon's methods were correct and that separating Jedi children from their families was wrong hence his directive for Luke and Leia to be raised in true families instead of him just taking them to Dagobah and training them as babies like all other Jedi before them (and Anakin.)

And then we know that Luke continued down the path of Qui Gon and Yoda since we know that for Ben Solo at least he too was not separated from Han and Leia as a baby. (Yeah yeah Ben is a bad example when you consider the end result but it still shows that the Qui Gon/Yoda method of training was that which endured.)

 

[Khev]

How about the loss of a mother figure at an early age lol

Did Duel of the Fates address that as well.

Was Padme the mother lol

I think we can replace the word "father" with "parent." Qui Gon took Anakin from his "parent" with the plan to be a surrogate "parent" instead. But then again it is George Lucas we're talking about who definitely has serious issues so maybe it really is all about fathers and sons and women are simply problematic "attachments" (whether they be wives, sisters, or mothers) that men need to learn to separate themselves from on every level and that's the true message of Star Wars, lol.

 

[ZE_501]

I can't believe everyone's drooling over Filoni's speech [...]


Filoni's passion for SW deserves the ultimate respect, but this sudden willingness to put him in charge of everything ignores the fact that passion doesn't equal filmmaking competence. Would we get more things like Mando (which Favreau has a lot to do with)? Or more things like Stinky the Hutt and hyperspace-capable flying whales? If it's the latter, then no thanks. Lots of people have passion and knowledge of SW, but that doesn't make them storytelling visionaries and great filmmakers.

REP'd.

I've said it before, everyone treats Filoni like the second coming of Star Wars but a lot of his choices are just plain goofy and make me cringe.

He's not wrong all the time and he's better than some, but I view anything he's involved in -- or claims -- with a great deal of skepticism. In my opinion his track record is spotty.

 

[ZE_501]

[...] (another thing for Rey to add to her pile of Star Wars loot [...]

Wait, who's Rey?

 

[ajp4mgs]

REP'd.

I've said it before, everyone treats Filoni like the second coming of Star Wars but a lot of his choices are just plain goofy and make me cringe.

He's not wrong all the time and he's better than some, but I view anything he's involved in -- or claims -- with a great deal of skepticism. In my opinion his track record is spotty.

He has well over 100 animated episodes on his SW resume, and up until the discontent with current LFL leadership, there was certainly no consensus among the fans about Filoni being a perfect choice to lead everything based on his resume. He's just benefiting from KK pissing everyone off.

He's done some good stuff, but he's also done some absolutely cringe-level garbage. He had *one* episode of Mando that he wrote and directed. IMO, that episode had some of the most embarrassingly bad stuff in the whole season. Filoni knows SW like nobody's business; there's no denying it. He studied at the feet of the master. But as a creative talent? I think the jury is still out on that one, contrary to current popular opinion.

 

[Khev]

I don't know that there'd be any harm in Filoni being the "Kevin Feige" of SW. But yes like Feige before him he needs accomplished writers and directors to implement his over arching story ideas.

I must say I'm quite surprised at your dismissal of Filoni ajp. He of all people currently working for LFL seems to truly have his finger on the pulse of "what George would do" which I thought was your #1 requirement for all future SW stories.

I do agree that simply being a lifelong fan doesn't make someone qualified to run LFL but at the very least he should be a prominent consultant (though it appears that Favreau has been doing a fair amount of consulting with the man himself George Lucas.)

 

[Hoody999]

I don't know that there'd be any harm in Filoni being the "Kevin Feige" of SW. But yes like Feige before him he needs accomplished writers and directors to implement his over arching story ideas.

I must say I'm quite surprised at your dismissal of Filoni ajp. He of all people currently working for LFL seems to truly have his finger on the pulse of "what George would do" which I thought was your #1 requirement for all future SW stories.

Nah, it'll be Faverau who will be the next Feige of Star Wars. Filoni isn't at that level yet. He's openly said he never get's into anything unless he knows he can master it. And is openly the "Padawan" when it comes to live action and movies etc let alone the business side of "the Hollywood business". Besides Filoni clearly loves being where he is I think.

Faverau knows you're only as good as the team beneath him. And Filoni is one of them, especially when it comes to understanding Star Wars deeply, writing and directing.

 

[Khev]

Nah, it'll be Faverau who will be the next Feige of Star Wars

Probably the best of both worlds having worked under both Lucas and Feige. Sure he's had some duds in his own career but seems to have great instincts when it comes to SW.

 

[ajp4mgs]

I don't know that there'd be any harm in Filoni being the "Kevin Feige" of SW. But yes like Feige before him he needs accomplished writers and directors to implement his over arching story ideas.

I must say I'm quite surprised at your dismissal of Filoni ajp. He of all people currently working for LFL seems to truly have his finger on the pulse of "what George would do" which I thought was your #1 requirement for all future SW stories.

I do agree that simply being a lifelong fan doesn't make someone qualified to run LFL but at the very least he should be a prominent consultant (though it appears that Favreau has been doing a fair amount of consulting with the man himself George Lucas.)

Khev, I admire Dave's passion. I want him involved in future SW precisely because he understands George's vision better than anyone there. I'm not dismissing him as an important (and needed) member of LFL. But heading it all up based on knowing SW backwards and forwards? That's like saying that there are fans who would be great choices to head up LFL because they know their ****.

I've watched TCW and Rebels. I saw his episode of Mando. If he's the head of LFL, that's what SW stories will be like going forward. For some people, that's great. But for some like me, I'd rather not go down that road. The Skywalker Saga is over. Filoni should've been listened to *WAY* more when it came to constructing a thematic arc for the ST. But going forward, we need visionaries and vanguard ideas that will propel the franchise in bold and *well-told* directions.

My whole thing is just pumping the brakes on "Filoni is a god" type of talk. That's not the impression that I got of him from his work so far. If being a fan, and understanding SW on a deep level, is all it took to adequately run LFL, I'd rather have *you* run it than Filoni. And that's not an exaggeration. Your taste in film/storytelling would give me more confidence in the future of SW than the guy who gave us Stinky, and Force whales, and plenty of other debatable original ideas. That's all I'm saying. I'm not dissing Filoni altogether, I'm just trying to offer some sober perspective as to his capabilities based on his resume.

 

[jye4ever]

I think we can replace the word "father" with "parent." Qui Gon took Anakin from his "parent" with the plan to be a surrogate "parent" instead. But then again it is George Lucas we're talking about who definitely has serious issues so maybe it really is all about fathers and sons and women are simply problematic "attachments" (whether they be wives, sisters, or mothers) that men need to learn to separate themselves from on every level and that's the true message of Star Wars, lol.

Holy crap they just announced the new Duel of the Fates remix for TPM:

Baby Momma Yo Fate!

Khev, I admire Dave's passion. I want him involved in future SW precisely because he understands George's vision better than anyone there. I'm not dismissing him as an important (and needed) member of LFL. But heading it all up based on knowing SW backwards and forwards? That's like saying that there are fans who would be great choices to head up LFL because they know their ****.

I've watched TCW and Rebels. I saw his episode of Mando. If he's the head of LFL, that's what SW stories will be like going forward. For some people, that's great. But for some like me, I'd rather not go down that road. The Skywalker Saga is over. Filoni should've been listened to *WAY* more when it came to constructing a thematic arc for the ST. But going forward, we need visionaries and vanguard ideas that will propel the franchise in bold and *well-told* directions.

My whole thing is just pumping the brakes on "Filoni is a god" type of talk. That's not the impression that I got of him from his work so far. If being a fan, and understanding SW on a deep level, is all it took to adequately run LFL, I'd rather have *you* run it than Filoni. And that's not an exaggeration. Your taste in film/storytelling would give me more confidence in the future of SW than the guy who gave us Stinky, and Force whales, and plenty of other debatable original ideas. That's all I'm saying. I'm not dissing Filoni altogether, I'm just trying to offer some sober perspective as to his capabilities based on his resume.

Why you stealing Ahmed Best thunder the dude is riding Filoni wave have you no shame lol


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[jye4ever]

Damage is already done Star Wars Theory is leading the charge that Filoni showed the world the true meaning of SW in what he considers the most important video on SW ever!

sigh lol


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[Khev]

Ahmed Best celebrating Filoni's speech and then seeing ajp's post, lol:

 

[Khev]

Khev, I admire Dave's passion. I want him involved in future SW precisely because he understands George's vision better than anyone there. I'm not dismissing him as an important (and needed) member of LFL. But heading it all up based on knowing SW backwards and forwards? That's like saying that there are fans who would be great choices to head up LFL because they know their ****.

I've watched TCW and Rebels. I saw his episode of Mando. If he's the head of LFL, that's what SW stories will be like going forward. For some people, that's great. But for some like me, I'd rather not go down that road. The Skywalker Saga is over. Filoni should've been listened to *WAY* more when it came to constructing a thematic arc for the ST. But going forward, we need visionaries and vanguard ideas that will propel the franchise in bold and *well-told* directions.

My whole thing is just pumping the brakes on "Filoni is a god" type of talk. That's not the impression that I got of him from his work so far. If being a fan, and understanding SW on a deep level, is all it took to adequately run LFL, I'd rather have *you* run it than Filoni. And that's not an exaggeration. Your taste in film/storytelling would give me more confidence in the future of SW than the guy who gave us Stinky, and Force whales, and plenty of other debatable original ideas. That's all I'm saying. I'm not dissing Filoni altogether, I'm just trying to offer some sober perspective as to his capabilities based on his resume.

Coming from you I do take that as a compliment even though I know that the same could be said for most people here.

With regard to creative control I guess it really does come down to just what exactly Filoni contributed in the first place. I assumed that Ahsoka was his brainchild but if Ahsoka was George and Filoni was Stinky the Hutt and "Bombad Jedi" then yeah disregard me saying that his speech sealed the deal, lol.