I can't believe everyone's drooling over Filoni's speech about Qui-Gon's death being an impetus of sorts for Anakin's turn to the dark side. I just traveled back in time to 1997 and told my younger self that the reason Anakin Skywalker became Darth Vader was because Qui-Gon Jinn died instead of Obi-Wan. Here's what my 1997 self said: "Who the **** is Qui-Gon Jinn?"
That has nothing to do with anything. Pointless.
Aren't *all* of the Jedi younglings there without fathers? Isn't that the point? That you take them from a very early age before they have a chance to form attachments to a father (or mother).If anything, Anakin was better suited than any of them because he *never* had a father to begin with. And he seemed pretty damned selfless and generous before any Jedi showed up. He wasn't some screwed up kid with a faulty moral compass and vulnerability from lack of fatherly guidance. All this speech does is basically insinuate that Obi-Wan screwed up with Anakin. Well, who trained Obi-Wan? Oh yeah! It was Qui-Gon Jinn!
Jedi younglings don't know a life without their parents. They don't know a way of thinking outside of the Jedi Code. They are indoctrinated. Anakin wasn't. Anakin had a view point of the world different of the Jedi. He formed attachments.
Once again I'll say this line. "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." Fear of loss of those attachments made. Anakin was flawed from the beginning. No other Jedi youngling had that fear. So, no, he was not better off, he was worse off.
TPM and the rest of the PT show that Qui-Gon was a different Jedi, a different teacher, a fatherly figure who understood Anakin was a special case an attachments needed to be taken into account in his training. Kenobi himself said he failed Anakin because he simply trained the boy as he was trained and that's not Qui-Gon's fault. You think every kid learns the same AJP? Teachers all the same adpat different methods based on the student.
Sorry, but saying that the "duel of the fates" was a key determining factor in Anakin's eventual fall is just further evidence of the lack of coherency in the PT narrative. It wasn't well established, or even followed up on. Anakin didn't befriend Palpatine as a father figure, FFS. He only rescued him in ROTS to save Padme, and then blabbed to Luke (in ESB) about wanting to kill and overthrow him. "The father figure he never had." Say what!? How was that ever portrayed on screen with even any coherent subtext? GTFO.
It was established clearly. If you guys ever stopped to think about the PT instead of looking for new ways to make jokes about it maybe it wouldn't have taken you 20 years to figure it out.
It's been speculated for years that Anakin would have turned out very different with Qui-Gon. You think he would leave his mother behind and never come back? Doubtful, because he was unorthodox. He wanted to train the boy, tried once to save his mother. Kenobi did it out of loyalty and guilt.
It was well established and followed up on. TPM introduces a different Jedi in Qui-Gon who believes in Anakin. He dies. Kenobi, more in line with the regular Jedi, trains him, and you can see the resentment Anakin holds against him and his treatment by the other Jedi. That doesn't happen under Qui-Gon, he was willing to leave the order to train him. Add in Anakin's fear of losing his attachments and Kenobi doing nothing about it (something that Jinn would have addressed), Kenobi admitting his failures, it all is very established. Sorry it doesn't come out and blatantly state it. That's the beauty of the PT, you have to
think.
Filoni's passion for SW deserves the ultimate respect, but this sudden willingness to put him in charge of everything ignores the fact that passion doesn't equal filmmaking competence. Would we get more things like Mando (which Favreau has a lot to do with)? Or more things like Stinky the Hutt and hyperspace-capable flying whales? If it's the latter, then no thanks. Lots of people have passion and knowledge of SW, but that doesn't make them storytelling visionaries and great filmmakers.
Good thing Stinky the Hutt kicked off one of the best animated shows of all time. Want to hear a good joke? One version of "flying whales" were FROM THE OT by McQuarrie, but weren't used for budget reasonings. The other was loosely based off the giant worm that randomly lived in a rock in space, yet where is the cringe level for that?
Dude, I'm not saying that George didn't have these things in mind, but it doesn't line up with how the stories actually play out. Yes, the *idea* itself is a cool one. But does that idea get portrayed effectively and does it line up with the actual delivery over the the course of the whole saga?
Yes.
You can't just ignore Anakin and Vader's onscreen behavior when trying to suggest that he and Palps had a father-son dynamic. They didn't. If George meant them to, he wasn't making that evident enough in either the OT or the PT. Instead, he established Anakin as mature beyond his years and capable of shouldering responsibility with good-natured intent from a very early age.
Palpatine was more so a friend to me, someone to vent too and show his frustrations. That was supposed to be Kenobi, but Kenobi failed him in that regard.
Anakin went through the same training as every other Jedi. If you want to say that they *all* got screwed up the same way, that's a whole different argument. But pretending that Anakin's problem was that he was uniquely in need of a father figure doesn't line up enough with the character and interactions that I saw over six movies.
This is a deeply flawed argument. Every child goes to the same school, surely they all are the same.
Come on, you know Anakin is different than every single student there and his training needed to be adjusted to account for it, but never was.
And based on what Filoni said Anakin *was* unique because he alone was trained after attachments to family had already been hardcoded into his DNA. I like the idea that Qui Gon was going to train him with those attachments constantly in mind and that Obi-Wan was simply given an unfair burden (without proper briefing on the context with which Qui Gon planned to keep in mind). To me that makes Anakin's outcome *less* Obi-Wan's fault, not more. He himself was a freaking Padawan when Qui Gon made him swear to train Anakin!
And I like that Yoda was the only Jedi Master to realize that Qui Gon's methods were correct and that separating Jedi children from their families was wrong hence his directive for Luke and Leia to be raised in true families instead of him just taking them to Dagobah and training them as babies like all other Jedi before them (and Anakin.)
And then we know that Luke continued down the path of Qui Gon and Yoda since we know that for Ben Solo at least he too was not separated from Han and Leia as a baby. (Yeah yeah Ben is a bad example when you consider the end result but it still shows that the Qui Gon/Yoda method of training was that which endured.)
You get it Khev. We are on the same side for once
REP'd.
I've said it before, everyone treats Filoni like the second coming of Star Wars but a lot of his choices are just plain goofy and make me cringe.
He's not wrong all the time and he's better than some, but I view anything he's involved in -- or claims -- with a great deal of skepticism. In my opinion his track record is spotty.
What is cringe or goofy?
He has well over 100 animated episodes on his SW resume, and up until the discontent with current LFL leadership, there was certainly no consensus among the fans about Filoni being a perfect choice to lead everything based on his resume. He's just benefiting from KK pissing everyone off.
He's done some good stuff, but he's also done some absolutely cringe-level garbage. He had *one* episode of Mando that he wrote and directed. IMO, that episode had some of the most embarrassingly bad stuff in the whole season. Filoni knows SW like nobody's business; there's no denying it. He studied at the feet of the master. But as a creative talent? I think the jury is still out on that one, contrary to current popular opinion.
What cringe level garbage?
Khev, I admire Dave's passion. I want him involved in future SW precisely because he understands George's vision better than anyone there. I'm not dismissing him as an important (and needed) member of LFL. But heading it all up based on knowing SW backwards and forwards? That's like saying that there are fans who would be great choices to head up LFL because they know their ****.
I've watched TCW and Rebels. I saw his episode of Mando. If he's the head of LFL, that's what SW stories will be like going forward. For some people, that's great. But for some like me, I'd rather not go down that road. The Skywalker Saga is over. Filoni should've been listened to *WAY* more when it came to constructing a thematic arc for the ST. But going forward, we need visionaries and vanguard ideas that will propel the franchise in bold and *well-told* directions.
My whole thing is just pumping the brakes on "Filoni is a god" type of talk. That's not the impression that I got of him from his work so far. If being a fan, and understanding SW on a deep level, is all it took to adequately run LFL, I'd rather have *you* run it than Filoni. And that's not an exaggeration. Your taste in film/storytelling would give me more confidence in the future of SW than the guy who gave us Stinky, and Force whales, and plenty of other debatable original ideas. That's all I'm saying. I'm not dissing Filoni altogether, I'm just trying to offer some sober perspective as to his capabilities based on his resume.
The whole world is praising TCW and Mando and it's in part because of Filoni. Not sure how much bolder and more well told you want then.
Damage is already done Star Wars Theory is leading the charge that Filoni showed the world the true meaning of SW in what he considers the most important video on SW ever!
sigh lol
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It sure is great, isn't it?
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