The Mandalorian (Star Wars Live Action Series)

[Sassafras]

I knew at least one of the ST crowd was going to "return fire" when Mandalorian came out

Star Wars absolutely relies on Nostalgia. As pointed out it doesn't guarantee success. For yet another example look at the prequels. They tried constantly to draw parallels to OT.

As a non-fan, I guess (in spite of re-watching all the films and owning HT TFA Kylo AND a collectible TLJ popcorn bucket) they could've been nostalgic. Or not.

Hopefully not so I was bored out of my mind. Nothing I've seen bothers me - why not have Jawas scattered thru the galaxy - a scavenger culture that builds a sort of mobile, defensible hive like those ants that build rafts and float around. Why not have a 50 year old toddler; we have thousand-year old redwood trees.

And, I think, there will be folks who are just PO'd that the Mandalorian is GOOD. That baby Yoda and "This is the way" are now a THING. That Herzog's voice should sneer from Google Maps ("ur pathetic for needing directions, don't you agree?" "finding the closest Taco Bell is a complicated business, especially for one as incompetent as you" "You were instructed not to go to that part of town. I find I can no longer guarantee your safety".)

That Favreau is already working on Season 2 of the Mandalorian

And they are talking about a FILM version...

Just f'in outrageous when, back at the movies, where it all started, knives are being sharpened, uber-fast connections bein' upgraded, so some true fan can get to the 'net first when TROS opens and spew bile about the newest *&^fest that is SW.

 

[aa909]

digging the show so far. It's got it's weaknesses but so far it's keeping my interest

 

[Khev]

Well, of course it's harder to justify beat-by-beat copying of older stories. That's a different issue, though. But even so, when TFA came out there was a much more positive overall reaction to it within the fanbase than there is now. The TFA thread in this very forum is proof of how pleased many were with it in spite of the objections about copying ANH. IMO, that's because TFA had plenty of 'member berries to drown out objections to the lack of creativity (and actual storytelling problems).

Nostalgia is the lifeblood of SW. For better or worse, I think that's just a reality. I think satisfaction with nostalgia prevents much of the same sorts of objections/nitpicks that would otherwise be raised ad nauseam. Despite its other failings, I think even the PT would've been more embraced had it contained a stronger sense of familiarity/nostalgia with the OT.

Since most of this fanbase is still composed of those of us who grew up on the OT, it is specifically the OT familiarity that gets the dopamine flowing. In the future, it will eventually need to be something else.

No I think that "Star Wars" is the lifeblood of SW.

There does seem to be a certain subset of fans (apparently comprised mostly of disgruntled TLJ lovers ) who now like to dismiss any good SW as fan service pandering or coasting on nostalgia.

But telling a story using the established universe isn't nostalgia and telling a *good* story isn't fan service since that appeals to diehards and normies alike.

 

[Khev]

I knew at least one of the ST crowd was going to "return fire" when Mandalorian came out

They could have this sect of Mandos that's all obese - the Boba Fat clan - that through CGI magic, Favreau could play all of them.

Instead of the skull on their shoulder armor they could have an abstracted Taco Bell symbol.

As a non-fan, I guess (in spite of re-watching all the films and owning HT TFA Kylo AND a collectible TLJ popcorn bucket) they could've been nostalgic. Or not.

Hopefully not so I was bored out of my mind. Nothing I've seen bothers me - why not have Jawas scattered thru the galaxy - a scavenger culture that builds a sort of mobile, defensible hive like those ants that build rafts and float around. Why not have a 50 year old toddler; we have thousand-year old redwood trees.

And, I think, there will be folks who are just PO'd that the Mandalorian is GOOD. That baby Yoda and "This is the way" are now a THING. That Herzog's voice should sneer from Google Maps ("ur pathetic for needing directions, don't you agree?" "finding the closest Taco Bell is a complicated business, especially for one as incompetent as you" "You were instructed not to go to that part of town. I find I can no longer guarantee your safety".)

That Favreau is already working on Season 2 of the Mandalorian

And they are talking about a FILM version...

Just f'in outrageous when, back at the movies, where it all started, knives are being sharpened, uber-fast connections bein' upgraded, so some true fan can get to the 'net first when TROS opens and spew bile about the newest *&^fest that is SW.

So true to all of the above and lol at Herzog GPS shaming.

He was way scarier than the armed Stormtroopers when hissing "Such an uncharacteristic question from a man of your reputation..."

 

[Sassafras]

So true to all of the above and lol at Herzog GPS shaming.

He was way scarier than the armed Stormtroopers when hissing "Such an uncharacteristic question from a man of your reputation..."

I'm thinkin' the Stormtroopers maybe aren't the best of the lot anyway - not much real difference between them and the bounty hunters. Just infantry scrabbling to get by after bein' on the wrong side.

 

[jye4ever]

Holy crap Sass just keeps knocking it out of the park i?m still lol at his GPS comment holy cow lol


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[Khev]

Holy crap Sass just keeps knocking it out of the park i?m still lol at his GPS comment holy cow lol

I'm at my son's dental appointment literally loling at "you were instructed not to go that part of town, I find I can no longer guarantee your safety..." .

 

[abake]

Add to that the fact that he's going to have to mature really damn quick in the next 50 years since we know that Yoda was *training Jedi* at around 100 years old. Unless the baby was in some sort of stasis during much of that 50 years, the aging/maturity process of this species would seem pretty inconsistent and difficult to understand. The explanation might very well be given in this series later, but it is a bit confusing for now.



The points that TaliBane made about the Jawas are the same thoughts and questions I had too, from knowing that this wasn't Tatooine. But you and TaliBane both know, as I know, why they were presented in the same familiar way (sandcrawler and all) on a different planet (yet also very familiar): nostalgia. Plain and simple.

What the fan reaction to The Mandalorian has reinforced for me (and what Favreau knew more clearly than Disney) is that to make the highest percentage of them satisfied, you've gotta feed them tons of nostalgia. Give them as much familiarity with their childhoods as possible, and worry about explaining discrepancies later.

This show is giving people Boba Fett without calling him that. Giving them Yoda, but as a baby. Giving them Jawas and a sandcrawler. Old school stormtroopers. Carbon freezing (with the exact same type of slab! ). Tatooine . . . but not called "Tatooine." And it's all making fans very happy.

Some of it makes little sense to me in this post-ROTJ, non-Tatooine planet, but it doesn't matter. For example, carbon freezing was *tested* on Bespin in ESB, and it took a huge facility to do it. Six years later, a bounty hunter who is short on funds has a carbon freezing chamber *built into his ship.* Doesn't seem to bother anyone (and it probably shouldn't).

The carbon freezing thing (much like "off-world Jawas") can be explained away with fan theories and hand waving. But there are legitimate plot points in this series that make little to no sense whatsoever and are still being ignored by the same fanbase that has been greedily picking nits for the last couple of years. IMO, that's all because of the heavy dose of nostalgia being served up here.

This has been a very interesting and eye-opening experience to sit back and analyze fan reaction.

Damn, this thread moves too fast for me!

I don't really mind the Jawas being a space-faring species, it just was a bit surprising, is all. As for the Sandcrawler, well, to me it makes sense that they have one "blueprint" for their all-in-one factory/home/transportation/defence system/home. They seem to be a very practical species, so if something works, why change it?
Another interesting thing is that these guys have red eyes (as somebody already pointed out), and their robes seem to be more greyish than brown, if I'm not mistaken... So maybe Jawas are an old species that colonised different planets and acquired slightly different characteristics in the process, while retaining their "way of life". It's an interesting expansion on the original Tatooine Jawas.

Which brings me to your point aj...
I think people (me included) are more willing to give certain inconsistencies in the series a pass (so far), because the story itself is interesting, and the characters are (so far) well written and relatable. As has been pointed out, the (titular) Mandalorian is relatable, because despite being a famous and respected bounty hunter, he still struggles and is not completely invincible (unless he's facing Stormtroopers, that is ). His softy heart is very much in tone with Disney (nobody actually believed he was going to be a real cold-blooded killer, did they?) and although a bit of a stretch, his decision to save the Yodaling is understandable through his flashbacks.

The failure of the ST so far isn't because of too much nostalgia or too much "subversion" of expectations, it's because the story and characters aren't that interesting, so every little discrepancy is jarring.

 

[abake]

As a non-fan, I guess (in spite of re-watching all the films and owning HT TFA Kylo AND a collectible TLJ popcorn bucket) they could've been nostalgic. Or not.

Hopefully not so I was bored out of my mind. Nothing I've seen bothers me - why not have Jawas scattered thru the galaxy - a scavenger culture that builds a sort of mobile, defensible hive like those ants that build rafts and float around. Why not have a 50 year old toddler; we have thousand-year old redwood trees.

And, I think, there will be folks who are just PO'd that the Mandalorian is GOOD. That baby Yoda and "This is the way" are now a THING. That Herzog's voice should sneer from Google Maps ("ur pathetic for needing directions, don't you agree?" "finding the closest Taco Bell is a complicated business, especially for one as incompetent as you" "You were instructed not to go to that part of town. I find I can no longer guarantee your safety".)

That Favreau is already working on Season 2 of the Mandalorian

And they are talking about a FILM version...

Just f'in outrageous when, back at the movies, where it all started, knives are being sharpened, uber-fast connections bein' upgraded, so some true fan can get to the 'net first when TROS opens and spew bile about the newest *&^fest that is SW.

Awesome.

 

[ajp4mgs]

Damn, this thread moves too fast for me!

I don't really mind the Jawas being a space-faring species, it just was a bit surprising, is all. As for the Sandcrawler, well, to me it makes sense that they have one "blueprint" for their all-in-one factory/home/transportation/defence system/home. They seem to be a very practical species, so if something works, why change it?
Another interesting thing is that these guys have red eyes (as somebody already pointed out), and their robes seem to be more greyish than brown, if I'm not mistaken... So maybe Jawas are an old species that colonised different planets and acquired slightly different characteristics in the process, while retaining their "way of life". It's an interesting expansion on the original Tatooine Jawas.

Which brings me to your point aj...
I think people (me included) are more willing to give certain inconsistencies in the series a pass (so far), because the story itself is interesting, and the characters are (so far) well written and relatable. As has been pointed out, the (titular) Mandalorian is relatable, because despite being a famous and respected bounty hunter, he still struggles and is not completely invincible (unless he's facing Stormtroopers, that is ). His softy heart is very much in tone with Disney (nobody actually believed he was going to be a real cold-blooded killer, did they?) and although a bit of a stretch, his decision to save the Yodaling is understandable through his flashbacks.

The failure of the ST so far isn't because of too much nostalgia or too much "subversion" of expectations, it's because the story and characters aren't that interesting, so every little discrepancy is jarring.

This is why I always appreciate the way you approach these discussions. You don't just dismiss out of hand and make stupid generalizations. Nothing but respect for you, abake, even if we disagree on quite a bit.

While you recognize that there are inconsistencies or problems with The Mandalorian, they just don't matter much to you because you like and appreciate the larger story and characters. You're smart enough to know that just because someone can point out said inconsistencies or plot problems doesn't make it objectively "bad" storytelling. But what I value most is that you're one of the few who is able to understand that the same is true for me with the ST, even though you don't like it personally. And you and I can have a reasonable discussion without resorting to nonsense just to dismiss an opposing point of view. There are posts before yours where that isn't true, unfortunately.

Just so you know, I'm enjoying Mando too. It's been fun. Maybe I'm not as super enthusiastic as many others, but I like it. I just feel that I like certain things more for nostalgia reasons than I feel that anything yet is just great storytelling on its own. And nostalgia, I believe, is a key factor in liking SW content. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've yet to see the nostalgia effect not play a key role in the perceived quality of story.

If I may, I'd like to direct some of my problems with Mando to you. Maybe you can answer these and get me more into the show:

1.) Why did everyone in the guild (every single one!) literally keep holding onto their baby Yoda trackers after the bounty had been collected? And why are those trackers still active after the asset has been delivered?

2.) Why did Mando risk his safety, *and that of the baby* to fight a mudhorn when he could've just taken the Jawas out for stealing his stuff? He had already disintegrated plenty of others in a prior scene.

3.) [Very nitpicky one here, I concede.] Why was it necessary in the first episode to take a blurrg to get to the baby, yet Mando made it back on foot?

 

[jye4ever]

This is why I always appreciate the way you approach these discussions. You don't just dismiss out of hand and make stupid generalizations. Nothing but respect for you, abake, even if we disagree on quite a bit.

While you recognize that there are inconsistencies or problems with The Mandalorian, they just don't matter much to you because you like and appreciate the larger story and characters. You're smart enough to know that just because someone can point out said inconsistencies or plot problems doesn't make it objectively "bad" storytelling. But what I value most is that you're one of the few who is able to understand that the same is true for me with the ST, even though you don't like it personally. And you and I can have a reasonable discussion without resorting to nonsense just to dismiss an opposing point of view. There are posts before yours where that isn't true, unfortunately.

Just so you know, I'm enjoying Mando too. It's been fun. Maybe I'm not as super enthusiastic as many others, but I like it. I just feel that I like certain things more for nostalgia reasons than I feel that anything yet is just great storytelling on its own. And nostalgia, I believe, is a key factor in liking SW content. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've yet to see the nostalgia effect not play a key role in the perceived quality of story.

If I may, I'd like to direct some of my problems with Mando to you. Maybe you can answer these and get me more into the show:

1.) Why did everyone in the guild (every single one!) literally keep holding onto their baby Yoda trackers after the bounty had been collected? And why are those trackers still active after the asset has been delivered?

2.) Why did Mando risk his safety, *and that of the baby* to fight a mudhorn when he could've just taken the Jawas out for stealing his stuff? He had already disintegrated plenty of others in a prior scene.

3.) [Very nitpicky one here, I concede.] Why was it necessary in the first episode to take a blurrg to get to the baby, yet Mando made it back on foot?

ajp you?re better than that.

A. What bounty hunter ever truly believes everything is as it seems especially in a nasty lawless place under rogue empire rule of course they?re going to hold on. Herzog probably instructed everyone to keep it as an insurance policy for him and for good reason he knew Mando was going to come back after Mando questioned the need for the baby hence his warning to the doctor he was the one who had those reactivated!

B. He tried did you miss the part where he got his butt kicked dude lol

C. Mando don?t jet pack yet

Sorry abake lol


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[ajp4mgs]

ajp you?re better than that.

A. What bounty hunter ever truly believes everything is as it seems especially in a nasty lawless place under rogue empire rule of course they?re going to hold on. Herzog probably instructed everyone to keep it as an insurance policy for him and for good reason he knew Mando was going to come back after Mando questioned the need for the baby hence his warning to the doctor he was the one who had those reactivated!

B. He tried did you miss the part where he got his butt kicked dude lol

C. Mando don?t jet pack yet

Sorry abake lol


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a.) Wait, what? Bounty hunters keep their trackers (and they stay active) on jobs for Imperials after the bounty has been collected? What makes Imperials less trustworthy than any crime boss who'd be offering them other bounties? Are you saying that they hold onto a bunch of different trackers for an indefinite amount of time?

I must've missed the exposition about Herzog. So Herzog's character asked/ordered that the guild re-activate the trackers when the baby was already in his possession? I totally didn't catch that.

b.) No, I mean when the Nolte ugnaught took him to the Jawa hideout after that. Why take a major risk with baby Yoda, when he could've wiped out the Jawas before they took off again in the sandcrawler (like he has with virtually everyone else, including armed stormtroopers)? If the baby hadn't used the force, they'd probably both be dead by taking on a mudhorn for its egg. Mando didn't know about the Force abilities, so either way he's risking an ***-kicking.

c.) Dude, he got back from meeting up with IG-11 and finding Yoda baby in that first episode. He got back *on foot.* But ugnaught Nolte had told him he'd need a blurrg to get there. Why not need one to get back?

 

[Wor-Gar]

Herzog's voice - "finding the closest Taco Bell is a complicated business, especially for one as incompetent as you" "You were instructed not to go to that part of town. I find I can no longer guarantee your safety".

I want it!... wouldn't you agree?

 

[jye4ever]

a.) Wait, what? Bounty hunters keep their trackers (and they stay active) on jobs for Imperials after the bounty has been collected? What makes Imperials less trustworthy than any crime boss who'd be offering them other bounties? Are you saying that they hold onto a bunch of different trackers for an indefinite amount of time?

I must've missed the exposition about Herzog. So Herzog's character asked/ordered that the guild re-activate the trackers when the baby was already in his possession? I totally didn't catch that.

b.) No, I mean when the Nolte ugnaught took him to the Jawa hideout after that. Why take a major risk with baby Yoda, when he could've wiped out the Jawas before they took off again in the sandcrawler (like he has with virtually everyone else, including armed stormtroopers)? If the baby hadn't used the force, they'd probably both be dead by taking on a mudhorn for its egg. Mando didn't know about the Force abilities, so either way he's risking an ***-kicking.

c.) Dude, he got back from meeting up with IG-11 and finding Yoda baby in that first episode. He got back *on foot.* But ugnaught Nolte had told him he'd need a blurrg to get there. Why not need one to get back?

A. Yup you missed it lol

It wasn?t just any bounty though.

B. I think it was a show of respect for Noltenaught. But i?m also thinking he showed some respect for the JAWAS for kicking his *** but I could be wrong there.

C. He hated those things again a show of respect for Noltenaught. They were too slow anyways especially if he was expecting combat but being low torgue animals they made good haulers later on.


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[TaliBane]

I just love that there's now a thing called a Nolte Ugnuaght.

I mean he's been that for nearly 20 years. Blur all this together...

 

[jye4ever]

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[abake]

This is why I always appreciate the way you approach these discussions. You don't just dismiss out of hand and make stupid generalizations. Nothing but respect for you, abake, even if we disagree on quite a bit.

While you recognize that there are inconsistencies or problems with The Mandalorian, they just don't matter much to you because you like and appreciate the larger story and characters. You're smart enough to know that just because someone can point out said inconsistencies or plot problems doesn't make it objectively "bad" storytelling. But what I value most is that you're one of the few who is able to understand that the same is true for me with the ST, even though you don't like it personally. And you and I can have a reasonable discussion without resorting to nonsense just to dismiss an opposing point of view. There are posts before yours where that isn't true, unfortunately.

Just so you know, I'm enjoying Mando too. It's been fun. Maybe I'm not as super enthusiastic as many others, but I like it. I just feel that I like certain things more for nostalgia reasons than I feel that anything yet is just great storytelling on its own. And nostalgia, I believe, is a key factor in liking SW content. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've yet to see the nostalgia effect not play a key role in the perceived quality of story.

If I may, I'd like to direct some of my problems with Mando to you. Maybe you can answer these and get me more into the show:

1.) Why did everyone in the guild (every single one!) literally keep holding onto their baby Yoda trackers after the bounty had been collected? And why are those trackers still active after the asset has been delivered?

2.) Why did Mando risk his safety, *and that of the baby* to fight a mudhorn when he could've just taken the Jawas out for stealing his stuff? He had already disintegrated plenty of others in a prior scene.

3.) [Very nitpicky one here, I concede.] Why was it necessary in the first episode to take a blurrg to get to the baby, yet Mando made it back on foot?

Thanks man, I enjoy our infrequent discussions as well!

Hmmm... let me give it a try...

1. Actually I thought the trackers were "generic", i.e. they could be used to send information about anyone, so if Herzog needed another job done, he could just send the information. After all, Herzog's character was the one who gave them out, not Apollo Creed/Dillon... so I figured Herzog just sent the information out again, or maybe even about the Mandalorian's betrayal, and not just the fact that the Yodaling was up for grabs again. Of course, the idea of those trackers being multi-use would fly in the face of the Guild and Creed/Dillon's position...

2. Frankly, I think he was wary because the Jawas did manage to kick his butt once, and he probably figured it would be less of a risky bloodbath to collect the egg, rather than go into a firefight with the Jawas (he did seem to respect Noltenaught's opinion, so he probably didn't want to go against it).

3. Again, I think he was just accommodating Noltenaught, the "I have spoken" line always has a finality to it, and the Mandalorian doesn't seem to be one to get into unnecessary discussions.

ajp you?re better than that.

A. What bounty hunter ever truly believes everything is as it seems especially in a nasty lawless place under rogue empire rule of course they?re going to hold on. Herzog probably instructed everyone to keep it as an insurance policy for him and for good reason he knew Mando was going to come back after Mando questioned the need for the baby hence his warning to the doctor he was the one who had those reactivated!

B. He tried did you miss the part where he got his butt kicked dude lol

C. Mando don?t jet pack yet

Sorry abake lol


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No problem jye!
But I didn't catch that bit about him (the doctor?) reactivating the trackers... I'll have to watch it again.

I just love that there's now a thing called a Nolte Ugnuaght.

I mean he's been that for nearly 20 years. Blur all this together...

The man is a legend.
I think the first movie I ever saw him in was 48 Hours. I remember I loved that movie. Haven't seen it in ages, I wonder if it's actually good.

But here's one thing that keeps me wondering...

The Mandalorians are all hiding, right?
Nobody is supposed to know there's a bunch of them left, or at least that's what I understood. So... how do they decide which one of them goes out to do some bounty hunting? And doesn't anybody notice that they all have different armour, i.e. that they're actually different people? Or doesn't anybody care? In which case, why are they hiding? That's all a bit confusing...
Also, I suppose the "way" places more importance on protecting one of your own rather than having a Mandalorian disgrace his tribe/race/whatever by breaking or reneging on an oath/business deal?

 

[ZE_501]

[...]

The Mandalorians are all hiding, right?
Nobody is supposed to know there's a bunch of them left, or at least that's what I understood. So... how do they decide which one of them goes out to do some bounty hunting? And doesn't anybody notice that they all have different armour, i.e. that they're actually different people? Or doesn't anybody care? In which case, why are they hiding? That's all a bit confusing...

It is, but I interpreted it as they were hiding their numbers, i.e. not revealing the congregation of them at the secret location. As for "deciding" -- yeah, that bit makes no sense.

Also, I suppose the "way" places more importance on protecting one of your own rather than having a Mandalorian disgrace his tribe/race/whatever by breaking or reneging on an oath/business deal?

They *hate* the Empire, so double-crossing the Imperial Remnant is likely fair game.

 

[Khev]

I didn't think that the trackers were keying in on The Little Guy. I thought the bounty was for Mando himself. To me Carl Weathers' dialogue seemed to convey that there was almost no way for Mando to survive, when if the bounty was just to receive TLG then he could have said, "Okay Mando, you've had your fun, now put the kid down so we can return him and all go home."

I figured the trackers could be reused and recalibrated (with Herzog's bounty overriding all others hence the mass beeping.) But as I've said before I really have no idea how they are supposed to work. If they magically just know where any single person in the galaxy is then that kind of breaks SW. I mean why hunt for BB-8's map or develop "hyperspace tracking." Just buy a handheld device that instantly tells you where Luke Skywalker, Princess Leia, etc., is, lol. Hopefully there's some decent explanation for how those things work because that's going to be the mother of all hand waves otherwise.

 

[abake]

It is, but I interpreted it as they were hiding their numbers, i.e. not revealing the congregation of them at the secret location. As for "deciding" -- yeah, that bit makes no sense.




They *hate* the Empire, so double-crossing the Imperial Remnant is likely fair game.

Hmmm... so Boba Fett must've been quite popular with his fellow Mandalorians...

I didn't think that the trackers were keying in on The Little Guy. I thought the bounty was for Mando himself. To me Carl Weathers' dialogue seemed to convey that there was almost no way for Mando to survive, when if the bounty was just to receive TLG then he could have said, "Okay Mando, you've had your fun, now put the kid down so we can return him and all go home."

I figured the trackers could be reused and recalibrated (with Herzog's bounty overriding all others hence the mass beeping.) But as I've said before I really have no idea how they are supposed to work. If they magically just know where any single person in the galaxy is then that kind of breaks SW. I mean why hunt for BB-8's map or develop "hyperspace tracking." Just buy a handheld device that instantly tells you where Luke Skywalker, Princess Leia, etc., is, lol. Hopefully there's some decent explanation for how those things work because that's going to be the mother of all hand waves otherwise.

Yup, that's what I thought as well.

As for the tracking, I thought when Herzog sends the hit out on the Mandalorian, it was just that: "get the Mandalorian", who obviously was still in town. When Herzog sends the bounty hunters after Yodaling he gives them the last known location as well, if I'm not mistaken.