The Official "The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey" movie thread *SPOILERS*

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Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread *SPOILERS*

I'm not sure that's actually been written anywhere or set in stone.

I could have sworn that I read it somewhere and I know it was mentioned by Gandalf in the films. Oh well off to the books this weekend. Only a thousand pages of text to scour through - no problem. :lol I'm gonna do my research old school and pile every Middle-Earth related book I own on the kitchen table and pour over everything by candlelight like Gandalf reading the scolls of Isildur in Minas Tirith.:rotfl
 
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Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread *SPOILERS*

I could have sworn it was mentioned or implied somewhere that I read and was brought up by Gandalf in the films. Oh well off to the books this weekend. Only a thousand pages of text to scour through - no problem. :lol

I know, I was looking through some reference to find an actual footnote to somewhere in one of the books or appendices and I couldn't find one. And I also thought Gandalf said it in the movie but when I checked the script, he says Saruman crosses Orcs with goblin-men.
 
Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread *SPOILERS*

BTW: Does anyone have a link to some close up pictures of the new Elven Helmets designs? Not the updated High Elf version, I mean the one that Thranduil's army was using.

I will check the book tonight and see if there are any pics for you. I hope we get something soon from Weta on the subject.

Actually that a very touchy subject for some Tolkien fans. Becouse, while Peter Jackson love and passion for the source material is undeniable, it's also true that many of the things depicted in his movies, were probably nothing like what Tolkien envisioned. PJ and his team at Weta Workshop very often drew from different elements of popcutural fantasy, that were introduced through various RPG games and fantasy literature that came after Tolkien, but which many people came to associate with Middle Earth.

I actually thing its a good thing. All those fantasy tropes, archetypes and cliches are something that I love, and the designers at Weta Workshop have brought it all to never before seen level. But it has the be said, that some of it is clearly non-Tolkien. But I have absolutely no problem with most of it.

Yeah, some of the stronger purists can get really upset about things. I don't quite get that myself as I think its as crazy as just wanting to change things that make it no longer The Hobbit/The Lord of the Rings.
 
Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread *SPOILERS*

I will check the book tonight and see if there are any pics for you. I hope we get something soon from Weta on the subject.

Thanks but I allready own the book (recommend it to everyone. Even those who disliked the film). There's nothing in it about mirkwood elves, just info on the updated rivendell version. I guess I have to wait for the next movie.

with goblin-men.

This could mean the half-orcs, that were described by Tolkien.

Speaking of Orcs and Uruks, I wonder if You guys heard this as well. A couple of years ago I heard or read something interesting about the Uruk-Hai, but I cannot for the life of me remember, where have I read/heard it. Was it some movie designer saying it on the DVD commentaries, or something that Tolkien himself wrote?

Anyway, it said that Uruk-Hai from Helms Deep siege, were significantly different from the Uruk-Hai that attacted the fellowship and killed Boromir. And I don't just mean different gear and weapons. Supposedly Saruman needed a big army quickly, so he altered his breeding techniques, so that he could mass-produce Uruks faster. The result were Uruk-Hai which were just as strong and fierce (if not more), but stupider than the Uruks that formed the hunting party from FOTR. They were much more beast-like and could not speak the common tongue (notice that no Uruk-Hai from Helms Deep say anything in the "Two Towers", just grunts and howls).

This supposedly infuenced the design of Uruk-Hai armaments in the films. In the "Weapons and Armour of Middle Earth" book, its said that the movie armour and weapons for Saruman army, were design so that they would force some patterns of behaviour on the new Uruk-Hai, which were much more beast-like, and less independent. So for example, the Uruk-Hai pikemen helmet had a different eye-slit from the helm of the swordsman. It was shaped in a way, that would force the wearer to constantly tilt his head upwards. This way it could help to stifle the Uruks natural instinct to charge, and remind them that when they see a Rohan Rider, they are supposed to stand their ground, plant the pike in the dirt, assume a half-crouch, bracing position, look upward and wait for the charge. Or other details, like armour only on the front of their bodies (to emphasize the point that if they turn their backs and run, they are dead), or the various spikes and blades on the armour of the swordsmen, to encourage furious attacks and charges (opposite to the pikemen).

I have no idea where I got that info from, and now I am not sure if its just something that PJ and Weta designers came up on their own (if its true, I like it a lot). Or is the bit about quick-breeding Uruks, something that Tolkien mentioned in some of his appendices.
 
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Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread *SPOILERS*

I know, I was looking through some reference to find an actual footnote to somewhere in one of the books or appendices and I couldn't find one. And I also thought Gandalf said it in the movie but when I checked the script, he says Saruman crosses Orcs with goblin-men.

Yeah, he did say goblin men which I interpreted as human with some orc in him like the squint-eyed spy in Bree mentioned in FOTR (book).
 
Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread *SPOILERS*

...Yeah, some of the stronger purists can get really upset about things. I don't quite get that myself as I think its as crazy as just wanting to change things that make it no longer The Hobbit/The Lord of the Rings.

Yeah, I never understood that myself. Why can't someone enjoy the book for what it is and enjoy the movie for what it is without them being exactly the same.
 
Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread *SPOILERS*

Thanks but I allready own the book (recommend it to everyone. Even those who disliked the film). There's nothing in it about mirkwood elves, just info on the updated rivendell version. I guess I have to wait for the next movie.

Got ya. They have a second book for AUJ coming out in the spring so it might have something.

Speaking of Orcs and Uruks, I wonder if You guys heard this as well. A couple of years ago I heard or read something interesting about the Uruk-Hai, but I cannot for the life of me remember, where have I read/heard it. Was it some movie designer saying it on the DVD commentaries, or something that Tolkien himself wrote?

Anyway, it said that Uruk-Hai from Helms Deep siege, were significantly different from the Uruk-Hai that attacted the fellowship and killed Boromir. And I don't just mean different gear and weapons. Supposedly Saruman needed a big army quickly, so he altered his breeding techniques, so that he could mass-produce Uruks faster. The result were Uruk-Hai which were just as strong and fierce (if not more), but stupider than the Uruks that formed the hunting party from FOTR. They were much more beast-like and could not speak the common tongue (notice that no Uruk-Hai from Helms Deep say anything in the "Two Towers", just grunts and howls).

This supposedly infuenced the design of Uruk-Hai armaments in the films. In the "Weapons and Armour of Middle Earth" book, its said that the movie armour and weapons for Saruman army, were design so that they would force some patterns of behaviour on the new Uruk-Hai, which were much more beast-like, and less independent. So for example, the Uruk-Hai pikemen helmet had a different eye-slit from the helm of the swordsman. It was shaped in a way, that would force the wearer to constantly tilt his head upwards. This way it could help to stifle the Uruks natural instinct to charge, and remind them that when they see a Rohan Rider, they are supposed to stand their ground, plant the pike in the dirt, assume a half-crouch, bracing position, look upward and wait for the charge. Or other details, like armour only on the front of their bodies (to emphasize the point that if they turn their backs and run, they are dead), or the various spikes and blades on the armour of the swordsmen, to encourage furious attacks and charges (opposite to the pikemen).

I have no idea where I got that info from, and now I am not sure if its just something that PJ and Weta designers came up on their own (if its true, I like it a lot). Or is the bit about quick-breeding Uruks, something that Tolkien mentioned in some of his appendices.

That's pretty cool info. True or not its enjoyable to read anyways.

Yeah, I never understood that myself. Why can't someone enjoy the book for what it is and enjoy the movie for what it is without them being exactly the same.

:exactly:
 
Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread *SPOILERS*

I did read/saw somewhere that the Uruk-Hai party send for the fellowship with Lurtz leading the charge was indeed more of a prototype Uruk-Hai squad instead of the army standing before the gates of Helms Deep. I think it was both a test to see how well the Uruk-Hai performed and necessary to have them be just a tad more powerful then the standard Uruk-Hai because they had to face ****ing fellowship.
 
Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread *SPOILERS*

I never knew till now that there was Uruks and Uruk-hai so that's fine.

Well technically in the movie I'm pretty sure Uruks are the same as Uruk-hai but in the book universe they're separate.
 
Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread *SPOILERS*

And I believe, personally, that the orcs in Moria (in the Fellowship of the Ring) ARE Goblins.

They're underground, they're smaller than regular orcs, live in caverns, have slave trolls and Legolas even sees their arrows and states, "GOBLINS".

I mean, they're from the Misty Mountains are they not?


Nope. He states right before they attack the FS after Pippin makes a bunch of noise "ORCS" Watch again.

(he states Goblins as they enter the mines though)
 
Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread *SPOILERS*

Well technically in the movie I'm pretty sure Uruks are the same as Uruk-hai but in the book universe they're separate.

I don't think so as Uruk-Hai were shown to be made by Saruman, but there are also some different looking uruks at Cirith Ungol, Gorbag (or is it Shagrat....) being one of them.
 
Re: The Official "The Hobbit" movie thread *SPOILERS*

It applies to the warg as well if anyone was confused about that. In The Hobbit the wargs were from Gundabad, in the Rings trilogy they were mutated versions by Saruman.
 
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