The Right to Responsible Gun Ownership

[Cloud]

you should never fear someone like me Because I own assault weapons .I did take a oath to protect the American people,even If I don't agree with their views.

You make me proud to be American.

 

[The Josh]

I'll be 30 in October. I know its not gonna happen but I'm curious as to which you value more the health and well being of your fellow americans or your assault weapons.

Its too easy to get weapons. IMO you don't have to jump through enough hoops. Again, its much easier to because we haven't worked on the laws hard enough.

 

[hoodonit00]

Scares the hell out of me. Here in VA it's illegal to drink and drive....but it's legal to operate a handgun if you are wasted. Actually you are allowed to brandish a gun, in a bar, if you are totally drunk...cops aren't allowed to arrest you.

What do you mean by brandish? If you're talking open carrying, so what. Brandishing usually means unholstering your weapon. I don't believe that you can do that in Va. legally. Show me the statute that says it. As far as being wasted with a gun. The majority of responsible gun owners know that alcohol and guns don't mix. You're always going to have your idiots though, just like drunk drivers.

 

[hoodonit00]

Can I have a glass of that Kool-Aid? It sounds delicious. Great punctuation btw...might want to use a few less commas and some more periods. That paragraph looks like it was written by a 4 year old.

As far as guns laws go I'm amazed that the NRA is opposed to mental background checks for those who want to buy a gun. Here in VA they are trying to pass a law, funded by the NRA, that even though you are declared insane you are still able to purchase a weapon. Another law they are trying to pass is that preschoolers should be able to bring holstered weapons into school. Gotta love Virginia.

I would like more info on both subjects you have brought up. I have not heard of either.

 

[The Josh]

You're asking the wrong questions. I value just about anything I own over someone else. My family, my possessions, and my health. I will stop at nothing to make sure my loved ones are taken care of.

The problem is people care more about getting a scuff on their air jordans then they so their own health. People care more about getting their tax returns and blowing it on xboxes and shoes and whatever else it is that strikes their fancy.

Then when they get sick they want to know why someone won't pay. Then they blame insurance companies and the government for their own lack of being able to take care of what's important. Their own healthcare! It's a joke!

Our bodies are our most precious gifts and we blame everyone else but ourselves for not taking care of it.

Well, while I value myself and my family I also value the well being of my fellow man/woman. Just how I was raised.

There are plenty of that in this country. However, there are plenty of the rich ____ing over the poor or taking advantage of the system.

I'm sure that most folks would advocate for the well-being of their fellow man, but what is the means to this? Taxing those of us who already pay for our insurance (via high premiums, co-pays, and deductibles, as well as literal taxes to cover public health insurance like Medicaid and Medicare) so that those who don't can have it (that's the way it already works)? Forcing everyone to buy insurance--even the young and healthy who might otherwise choose not to do so--to cover the risk of disabled persons, the aging, and the poor ("Obamacare")? Unfortunately, there are winners and losers in this health reform debate. And the losers include advocates for the individual right to choose not to buy insurance and folks who don't like the idea of subsidizing the more vulnerable in our population.

I'd have to re-read it again but I don't recall any more taxes going into the new healthcare bill. As far as what you pay to the insurance companies thats them being greedy. The cost of what they charge as to what it actually costs is nuts. If everyone had to have insurance then costs would go down cause you wouldn't be paying for when someone backs out of paying their medical bills.

 

[hoodonit00]

I'm sure that most folks would advocate for the well-being of their fellow man, but what is the means to this? Taxing those of us who already pay for our insurance (via high premiums, co-pays, and deductibles, as well as literal taxes to cover public health insurance like Medicaid and Medicare) so that those who don't can have it (that's the way it already works)? Forcing everyone to buy insurance--even the young and healthy who might otherwise choose not to do so--to cover the risk of disabled persons, the aging, and the poor ("Obamacare")? Unfortunately, there are winners and losers in this health reform debate. And the losers include advocates for the individual right to choose not to buy insurance and folks who don't like the idea of subsidizing the more vulnerable in our population.

If folks think having a gun means safety for themselves and their families (even if it is really just peace of mind) whereas universal health care means a benefit to people they don't know or care about, I can understand choosing the former.

Wow bravo. I've given you crap before but this is a great post.

 

[karamazov80]

There are but Obama's name isn't in the bill at all. Thats just a dumb name ignorant people give it. The law needs work but its a good starting place. We spend money in this country on much dumber things than health care. I know it won't be hard just tossing that out there for my own amusement.

Well, what do informed people call it? Obama's health reform program as codified by the Affordable Care Act (aka the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act as modified by the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010)? Democrats suck at branding, so the right-wing abbreviation for the thing is the easiest most recognizable way to refer to what you're talking about.

Bill wouldn't have passed without Obama's general support, expenditure of political capital, and use of the bully pulpit. He's tied in with this thing for better or worse and he wanted it that way.

As for what money is being spent on, there are political considerations to any policy and budget-related decision. The question isn't just what money should be spent on, but where the money is gonna come from. Health care costs are over 16% of GDP. You aren't gonna be able to divert taxes from discretionary spending programs to take care of this thing. The individual mandate is one of the very few, widely accepted means to ensuring universal coverage. You scrap that, you scrap the whole bill and start from scratch. Meaning that ACA isn't even a starting point if that happens. But all of this is off-topic. . .

 

[The Josh]

Why don'tyou sell all of your collectibles that you have bought and donate the money to St Judes or some other worthy charity thtat helps out the needy. You're trying to get one of us gun owners to say that "My guns are more important then anything". Well I be the first. I'll keep my guns, my collectibles, my X Box and games and my CD's. Maybe, just maybe if I feel like it I'll give some money to charity. How about you though. You gonna give up all your stuff?

Who says I don't give to charity or donate my time? Cause I do. I do my part. I don't need to get anyone to say it cause I already know the answer.

 

[The Josh]

Well, what do informed people call it? Obama's health reform program as codified by the Affordable Care Act (aka the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act as modified by the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010)? Democrats suck at branding, so the right-wing abbreviation for the thing is the easiest most recognizable way to refer to what you're talking about.

Bill wouldn't have passed without Obama's general support, expenditure of political capital, and use of the bully pulpit. He's tied in with this thing for better or worse and he wanted it that way.

I'd call it the Affordable Care Act. Not that hard.

As for what money is being spent on, there are political considerations to any policy and budget-related decision. The question isn't just what money should be spent on, but where the money is gonna come from. Health care costs are over 16% of GDP. You aren't gonna be able to divert taxes from discretionary spending programs to take care of this thing. The individual mandate is one of the very few, widely accepted means to ensuring universal coverage. You scrap that, you scrap the whole bill and start from scratch. Meaning that ACA isn't even a starting point if that happens. But all of this is off-topic. . .

Yeah, of course there are. You always get folks who want to attach things to them as well that make them cost more. Right there needs to be better spending by our government both sides of the isle and I have some other ideas but those might get me hated even more.

 

[hoodonit00]

Well, while I value myself and my family I also value the well being of my fellow man/woman. Just how I was raised.

There are plenty of that in this country. However, there are plenty of the rich ____ing over the poor or taking advantage of the system.



I'd have to re-read it again but I don't recall any more taxes going into the new healthcare bill. As far as what you pay to the insurance companies thats them being greedy. The cost of what they charge as to what it actually costs is nuts. If everyone had to have insurance then costs would go down cause you wouldn't be paying for when someone backs out of paying their medical bills.

The Josh. The healthcare bill is a case of "if it sounds to good to be true it probably is" things. There is no way in hell to give free medical to millions of more people and peoples taxes not go up. Not only that but we don't have the medical staff for the influx of patiens that would come with it. Add that to the cuts medical personel would take intheir salary with the regulations that would come, more medical people would get out of the field and compound the problem.

 

[Jason13]

Probably should but honestly the topic should probably end. I come here to talk toys. I should learn to just keep my mouth shut.

Don't feel bad we all do that at times! Peace Josh I wish you the best .I might not agree with your views But that is what makes America great we can agree to disagree

 

[Cloud]

Agreed...seems like it was the perfect Straw Man argument to me to. He got everyone sidetracked and talking about universal healthcare instead of the topic of the thread.

To be fair, this thread came about from the "Save Lennox" thread. Talk about going way off topic!


And Josh, if anyone, I'm the one who needs to learn to keep my mouth shut, especially after my time in the sandbox tonight!

 

[The Josh]

Agreed...seems like it was the perfect Straw Man argument to me to. He got everyone sidetracked and talking about universal healthcare instead of the topic of the thread.

Nope none of that is true.

 

[The Josh]

Don't feel bad we all do that at times! Peace Josh I wish you the best .I might not agree with your views But that is what make America great we can agree to disagree

Indeed

 

[The Josh]

To be fair, this thread came about from the "Save Lennox" thread. Talk about going way off topic!


And Josh, if anyone, I'm the one who needs to learn to keep my mouth shut, especially after my time in the sandbox tonight!

Live and Learn Cloud. Thats how we grow.

 

[hoodonit00]

Nice conversation people. Have to get my beauty sleep. Trust me I need A LOT of it. Night all, peace.

 

[Cloud]

Live and Learn Cloud. Thats how we grow.

Thank you for not putting me on ignore. You still have my respect, and even though we may disagree about guns and religion, obviously we're on the same page about healthcare and it's nice to know someone else shares that idea (because it's pretty darn unpopular).

As for "live and learn"...The reason I have trouble shutting up in the heat of battle is because I cannot stay silent when I feel there is something deeper than skin at stake. I would not debate and/or argue so fervently about both guns and religion if I didn't feel they were worth it. My best friend (who posts very rarely under the screen name "Bliss") doesn't understand the gun thing either. And that's okay, because she does understand that it's an important issue to me.

 

[The Josh]

No problem. I just hope that in the future you will do what you did and back away when your temper gets or is starting to get the best of you. Trust me I know this from my own experiences. Yeah, its not exactly the most popular way to be about health care.

Well, as I said while I don't agree with you I respect that you feel strongly. Just like I said when you feel heated and walk away for a bit then come back and give your thoughts. Sometimes, though I will say its better to not say something than to say too much.

 

[VASith]

Where Unlawful to Carry in VA


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§18.2-308 (J.3.): No person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. However, nothing in this subsection shall apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer.

So where are you getting your info VASith?

VA Law passed in the General Assembly last summer. Here's some info from a Washington Post article:

"When Anthony Dahm visited Champps Americana restaurant and bar Thursday, his menu of options had doubled: Thanks to a change in Virginia's gun laws, he could carry a semiautomatic handgun hidden behind the pouch holding his children's allergy medicine -- as well as the one worn openly on his hip -- without fear of committing a crime.

That was cause enough for Dahm to celebrate at the Reston restaurant with about 80 other members of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, a gun-rights organization that had long pushed for the new law, which allows people with concealed-weapon permits to go armed in places that serve alcohol......
A cheer rose from a couple of tables when Philip Van Cleave, the group's president, unveiled a chocolate-and-vanilla sheet cake with the VCDL logo and the words: "Rights Restored, Ban Repealed." He decided against a speech because the restaurant was noisy and crowded with many non-gun-toting customers glued to the soccer and baseball games on giant TV screens.

"Gun rights have been moving strongly in favor of less control. For us, this is a big step," Van Cleave said. He said his group has its sights on renewing efforts to repeal Virginia's law prohibiting the purchase of more than one handgun in a 30-day period and opening more places to unrestricted carrying of weapons.

"Honestly, the likelihood of using it is very slim," said Bill Clark, 34, of Springfield, who was discreetly carrying his Sig Sauer .380-caliber semiautomatic handgun tucked under his shirt. "But I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.""

 

[VASith]

I would like more info on both subjects you have brought up. I have not heard of either.

Here's a quick bit on the mental health bill...heading off to work soon.

"VA Senate Bill 755: Concealed handgun permits; disqualification for residential mental health or substance abuse treatment. Allows a person who has received mental health treatment or substance abuse treatment in a residential setting within five years from the application to petition the court for a permit to carry a concealed handgun. Currently, such persons are disqualified from obtaining a permit within five years of receiving residential treatment."