The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Comic and Un-aired Spoilers unwelcome!)

[pixletwin]

Great episode. I was sorry to see Eastman get bit.

 

[crows]

That could be partly it but I think even in an apocolyctic world people would adopt different philosophies. Not everyone would embrace killing as the only sensible way to react to a threat. Unlike a lot of people here, I guess, it doesn't frustrate me that Morgan's adopted it, anyway.

And I don't think Morgan's content to see say Carol/Rick kill on his behalf. But he's also not there to forcibly convert them. I don't see any inconsistency to having both philosophies operating within the same group.

Edit: Thinking about it, Morgan is sort of how the cowardly preacher should have been, if he'd kept his principles and adapted to the world in a way still consistent with his faith (reminds me of Gandalf and Saruman, for some reason). He's a neat character, so glad they're pursuing this idea.

thats an excellent point

 

[Centurion]

"Here's Not Here" should be retitled to "Kill Meeee!!!"

 

[crows]

I wish Eastman's death wasn't as stupid... that was like a Season 1 red shirt of the week death...

I say that as someone that loved the episode. probably one of the strongest episodes of the entire show. it caught my attention in a way that the show does not do too often (as far as characters' pasts go)

I really wanted to know what was the deal with this guy, then when we find out it was pretty interesting. I loved that he helped Morgan to come back.

and then he dies in such a stupid way... lol oh man... again, Loved the character of Eastman, loved the backstory. Loved that it made me understand Morgan and see why he was being the way he was. it changed my view of Morgan, I kind of hated him but now I like him more.

but that walker dead is probably one of the weakest deaths of the show.

 

[Centurion]

I wish Eastman's death wasn't as stupid... that was like a Season 1 red shirt of the week death...

I say that as someone that loved the episode. probably one of the strongest episodes of the entire show. it caught my attention in a way that the show does not do too often (as far as characters' pasts go)

I really wanted to know what was the deal with this guy, then when we find out it was pretty interesting. I loved that he helped Morgan to come back.

and then he dies in such a stupid way... lol oh man... again, Loved the character of Eastman, loved the backstory. Loved that it made me understand Morgan and see why he was being the way he was. it changed my view of Morgan, I kind of hated him but now I like him more.

but that walker dead is probably one of the weakest deaths of the show.

Yup, and for someone that appeared to be quite the fighter, his death wasn't fitting for his character.

 

[pixletwin]

E wasn't focusing.He was all emotional. Walker death worked for me.

 

[devilof76]

Same here. He didn't have time to think. Just enough to throw himself in the way.

 

[WWEJedi]

The guy is a master "swordsman" with a stick. He had time to run to Morgan, grab him, turn his back to the zombie.... but didn't have time to stab/hit the Walker with the stick? Nah. Third dumbest death on this show right up there with Beth and Tyreese.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

That could be partly it but I think even in an apocolyctic world people would adopt different philosophies. Not everyone would embrace killing as the only sensible way to react to a threat. Unlike a lot of people here, I guess, it doesn't frustrate me that Morgan's adopted it, anyway.

And I don't think Morgan's content to see say Carol/Rick kill on his behalf. But he's also not there to forcibly convert them. I don't see any inconsistency to having both philosophies operating within the same.

Morgan is really the first pacifist on the show that's been through it and gone back. The others were either completely naive, or were just developmentally a couple of steps behind Rick.

Morgan isn't naive, and has been through it all. It's arguable that Morgan has gone a step past Rick. It's interesting to have a nonnaive nonviolent character.

SnakeDoc

 

[devilof76]

That is the sharpest thing I've read in this thread in a while.
But I'm not sure it's a step ahead.

The guy is a master "swordsman" with a stick. He had time to run to Morgan, grab him, turn his back to the zombie.... but didn't have time to stab/hit the Walker with the stick? Nah. Third dumbest death on this show right up there with Beth and Tyreese.

A master swordsman?

He's a fat guy with a stick who practices a martial art he learned from a book. Hyperbole is the saving grace of nonsense.

 

[Invictus Sol]

Morgan is really the first pacifist on the show that's been through it and gone back. The others were either completely naive, or were just developmentally a couple of steps behind Rick.

Morgan isn't naive, and has been through it all. It's arguable that Morgan has gone a step past Rick. It's interesting to have a nonnaive nonviolent character.

SnakeDoc

Well put and agreed.

The guy is a master "swordsman" with a stick. He had time to run to Morgan, grab him, turn his back to the zombie.... but didn't have time to stab/hit the Walker with the stick? Nah. Third dumbest death on this show right up there with Beth and Tyreese.

I find it's best not to overthink that stuff, honestly. Whether he died this way or that, it accomplishes the same thing in the end. *shrugs*

 

[devilof76]

It's so unimportant that it hurts to think about.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

That is the sharpest thing I've read in this thread in a while.
But I'm not sure it's a step ahead.

Thanks.

That's why I said "arguable".

This is more of a pure philosophical argument about killing vs. not-killing and the value of life than any before it. With Dale, for instance, it was an argument between a guy that didn't grasp the reality he was living in (Dale), and a guy that fully grasped it (Rick). Dale was clinging to a view of humanity that had died. That's like staging a violence/nonviolence argument between The Punisher and Adam West's Batman (couldn't think of a better naive non-killing superhero). You never get to the question of whether West's Batman is right about not killing because it's overshadowed his complete underestimation of the enemy. Same with Dale. His philosophy gets lost behind his naivety. It doesn't matter if he's right about the value of life, because he's so wrong about the threat.

With Rick and Morgan, this is more of an argument between The Punisher and Miller's Batman ... which is a better, purer argument. It allows you to get directly to the 'value of life' question without clouding it with blindness to the seriousness of the situation. They both grasp the danger. They both know the enemy. They both understand the threat. They both have been through the wringer and come out the other side. They just have two opposing views, not of the nature of the enemy, but of their own humanity.

It's actually a fairly brilliant story development.

I'd say Morgan is a step past Rick simply because Rick has so entirely lost perspective on any value of life. "We are the greater good." Morgan is overly respectful of life that ought to be ended ... and Rick is overly callous about life that's worth protecting. They're both right, and both wrong. Which is why the conversation is interesting. Batman vs. The Punisher.

SnakeDoc

 

[beeshaw]

He's a fat guy with a stick who practices a martial art he learned from a book. Hyperbole is the saving grace of nonsense.

One more Ninja Turtle Easter Egg.

 

[Mister Ski]

Thanks.

That's why I said "arguable".

This is more of a pure philosophical argument about killing vs. not-killing and the value of life than any before it. With Dale, for instance, it was an argument between a guy that didn't grasp the reality he was living in (Dale), and a guy that fully grasped it (Rick). Dale was clinging to a view of humanity that had died. That's like staging a violence/nonviolence argument between The Punisher and Adam West's Batman (couldn't think of a better naive non-killing superhero). You never get to the question of whether West's Batman is right about not killing because it's overshadowed his complete underestimation of the enemy. Same with Dale. His philosophy gets lost behind his naivety. It doesn't matter if he's right about the value of life, because he's so wrong about the threat.

With Rick and Morgan, this is more of an argument between The Punisher and Miller's Batman ... which is a better, purer argument. It allows you to get directly to the 'value of life' question without clouding it with blindness to the seriousness of the situation. They both grasp the danger. They both know the enemy. They both understand the threat. They both have been through the wringer and come out the other side. They just have two opposing views, not of the nature of the enemy, but of their own humanity.

It's actually a fairly brilliant story development.

I'd say Morgan is a step past Rick simply because Rick has so entirely lost perspective on any value of life. "We are the greater good." Morgan is overly respectful of life that ought to be ended ... and Rick is overly callous about life that's worth protecting. They're both right, and both wrong. Which is why the conversation is interesting. Batman vs. The Punisher.

SnakeDoc

Nice viewpoint. I agree with a lot of it, but I don't think Morgan is a step ahead of Rick, that implies they are on the same path. I think they have taken different paths.

 

[pixletwin]

Thanks.

That's why I said "arguable".

This is more of a pure philosophical argument about killing vs. not-killing and the value of life than any before it. With Dale, for instance, it was an argument between a guy that didn't grasp the reality he was living in (Dale), and a guy that fully grasped it (Rick). Dale was clinging to a view of humanity that had died. That's like staging a violence/nonviolence argument between The Punisher and Adam West's Batman (couldn't think of a better naive non-killing superhero). You never get to the question of whether West's Batman is right about not killing because it's overshadowed his complete underestimation of the enemy. Same with Dale. His philosophy gets lost behind his naivety. It doesn't matter if he's right about the value of life, because he's so wrong about the threat.

With Rick and Morgan, this is more of an argument between The Punisher and Miller's Batman ... which is a better, purer argument. It allows you to get directly to the 'value of life' question without clouding it with blindness to the seriousness of the situation. They both grasp the danger. They both know the enemy. They both understand the threat. They both have been through the wringer and come out the other side. They just have two opposing views, not of the nature of the enemy, but of their own humanity.

It's actually a fairly brilliant story development.

I'd say Morgan is a step past Rick simply because Rick has so entirely lost perspective on any value of life. "We are the greater good." Morgan is overly respectful of life that ought to be ended ... and Rick is overly callous about life that's worth protecting. They're both right, and both wrong. Which is why the conversation is interesting. Batman vs. The Punisher.

SnakeDoc

Nice to read an insightful POV in this thread for once that may actually alter how I take in future episodes. Thanks.

 

[Darth Snoopy]

The guy is a master "swordsman" with a stick.

Uh...no.

Sorry but if Eastman is a "Master swordsman" then Star Wars kid is a "Master Jedi".

​

 

[teemu]

Uh...no.

Sorry but if Eastman is a "Master swordsman" then Star Wars kid is a "Master Jedi".

​

 

[crows]

Same here. He didn't have time to think. Just enough to throw himself in the way.

The guy is a master "swordsman" with a stick. He had time to run to Morgan, grab him, turn his back to the zombie.... but didn't have time to stab/hit the Walker with the stick? Nah. Third dumbest death on this show right up there with Beth and Tyreese.

we have seen other people be in "distress" or be distracted by something else. All of the main characters have been at a point where they were distracted by something and a Jump Scare walker comes out. Most of the "Jump Scare" scares on the entire show are from zombies surprising the main cast,

It just seems weird that after 5 seasons they are still relying on this kind of crap. I know at the end his outcome was the same, but given that they made such a cool new character with such an interesting story, It is a shame they didn't give him a better attack. (specially since he was so skilled)
It might not matter now since we are still waiting for the conclusion of this entire story. but on repeat views that scene is going to stick out for being so sloppy.

I mean, that walker attack was as dumb as this scene

 

[The Ween]

So.......none of you who are complaining have ever done something stupid where you've gotten hurt? I have, may times.