The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Comic and Un-aired Spoilers unwelcome!)

[Michael Crawford]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

Like the series, it'd be a matter of perception. Rick had a gun pointed at him but there was no promise that Shane would shoot him. It seemed like Shane was just trying to get his POV across to Rick. By Devil's argument, Carl should've shot him in the leg, or in the arm but instead, shoots him through the throat, causing him to bleed to death. In that instance, his death would've been uncalled for and in today's society, Carl would've been tried and likely convicted (as a child, with all the limitations of the juvenile courts, but convicted nonetheless). But overall, Shane is largely unappreciated in the comic as well for his contributions, but was given even less opportunity for character development than he was in the series.

I think Nam is smoking something extremely strong today.

"promise to shoot" What the Hell is that? Sorry, but Carl would not be even tried, let alone convicted. Someone points a gun at someone else the law (and you) assume he's going to shoot. A gun is deadly force by definition, and using deadly force to protect yourself is not just allowed, it's expected.

As to the idea of who's 'at fault' for Randall's situation, that's easy - it's Randall himself and his buddies. They all panicked back in town, resulting in Randall ending up on that fence. There were plenty of decisions made by others after that including Rick and Shane, some good, some not so good, but the initial situation is what forced them to make those decisions in the first place.

 

[wofford29]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

Circular? Who's decision was it to get on a roof? Who fell off the roof? There is an answer for both with a period at the end.

 

[pixletwin]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

...As to the idea of who's 'at fault' for Randall's situation, that's easy - it's Randall himself and his buddies. They all panicked back in town, resulting in Randall ending up on that fence. There were plenty of decisions made by others after that including Rick and Shane, some good, some not so good, but the initial situation is what forced them to make those decisions in the first place.

I think you folks are trying to view this in much broader terms than I was discussing. I am talking about Randall, sitting in a barn, blind folded, beaten, and broken. You isolate that one aspect and it isn't Randall who is responsible for that. It's Rick and Rick alone.

 

[wofford29]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

I think you folks are trying to view this in much broader terms than I was discussing. I am talking about Randall, sitting in a barn, blind folded, beaten, and broken. You isolate that one aspect and it isn't Randall who is responsible for that. It's Rick and Rick alone.

Isn't it broader to rest the blame on one man that wasn't directly involved in any beating than to rest it all on individual persons?

 

[devilof76]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

As to the idea of who's 'at fault' for Randall's situation, that's easy - it's Randall himself and his buddies. They all panicked back in town, resulting in Randall ending up on that fence. There were plenty of decisions made by others after that including Rick and Shane, some good, some not so good, but the initial situation is what forced them to make those decisions in the first place.

Absolutely. Especially the last part.

Randall trying to kill Rick coupled with Rick saving/capturing Randall means that Rick owns him. He wouldn't be in the situation he was in if he hadn't introduced himself the way he did. If he had come in peace, then I'd agree it's Rick's fault.

 

[pixletwin]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

Isn't it broader to rest the blame on one man that wasn't directly involved in any beating than to rest it all on individual persons?

That comes across to me as kind of vague. Would you be more specific?

 

[Dark Passenger]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

This thread is entertaining.

 

[devilof76]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

I'd watch my fingers if I were you.

 

[wofford29]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

Your being vague. Can you be more specific?

Why is Randall in the barn? Because he fell off a roof = Randall

How did Randall get in the barn? Rick drove him there = Rick

How did Randall get beat? Daryl beat him = Daryl

How did Randall die? Shane broke his neck = Shane

There is a direct answer for every question that all lands on individuals. I don't remember Rick asking anyone to beat Randall senseless, so you can't place an individual decison that Daryl made on Rick's shoulders just because he brought him back to the barn. If you can, well then it's just as broad an idea as placing blame on Randall for ending up in the barn.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

Randall was in the barn because he got stuck on the fence.

They had access to a survivor who knew infinitely more about the people who were trying to kill them and find the farm than they did. Leaving him would have been stupid for that reason alone. Rick did the right thing, and probably could have figured it out fully if he didn't have panic (and ambition) screaming in his ear.

Randall's friends had abandoned him. Walkers were right there. Leaving him to die presented no risk whatsoever. Randall's death was guaranteed. Instead, Rick made the decision to bring him back to the farm (because he's weak), which presented the security risk, resulted in Randall getting beaten and executed anyway. That's all on Rick.

I think Nam is smoking something extremely strong today.

"promise to shoot" What the Hell is that? Sorry, but Carl would not be even tried, let alone convicted. Someone points a gun at someone else the law (and you) assume he's going to shoot. A gun is deadly force by definition, and using deadly force to protect yourself is not just allowed, it's expected.

As to the idea of who's 'at fault' for Randall's situation, that's easy - it's Randall himself and his buddies. They all panicked back in town, resulting in Randall ending up on that fence. There were plenty of decisions made by others after that including Rick and Shane, some good, some not so good, but the initial situation is what forced them to make those decisions in the first place.

Reread that as sarcasm inferring Devil's POV.

Why is Randall in the barn? Because he fell off a roof = Randall

How did Randall get in the barn? Rick drove him there = Rick

How did Randall get beat? Daryl beat him = Daryl

How did Randall die? Shane broke his neck = Shane

There is a direct answer for every question that all lands on individuals. I don't remember Rick asking anyone to beat Randall senseless, so you can't place an individual decison that Daryl made on Rick's shoulders just because he brought him back to the barn. If you can, well then it's just as broad an idea as placing blame on Randall for ending up in the barn.

Rick's actions are the direct common denominator for anything and everything to do with Randall, upto and including Dale's death (referencing a lack of parenting).

 

[pixletwin]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

Why is Randall in the barn? Because he fell off a roof = Randall

Wrong and slightly manipulative to place both circumstances in the same equation. Randall fell off the barn because Randall choose to run with a bunch of lunk heads rapists and murderers. Randall was in the barn because Rick put him there. Period.

As for the rest of your equation, I agree with that. Except I still believe a case can be made for who put Daryl in the position of interrogator.

 

[siquisiri]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

killing time until Sunday are we? LOL.

 

[a-dev]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

Rick should have just shot Randall in the head while he was impaled on the fence. Easier said than done I'm sure but still - it would have simultaneously been a merciful and understandable action given the imminent zombie threat. Since they ended up torturing Randall anyway (and surely Rick knew what was going on - otherwise why was Daryl the one doing the interrogating and not Rick himself?) it would seem to have been, at least in hindsight, the better action to take.

 

[pixletwin]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

killing time until Sunday are we? LOL.

Avoiding the stack of work on my desk is more like it.

 

[wofford29]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

Wrong and slightly manipulative to place both circumstances in the same equation. Randall fell off the barn because Randall choose to run with a bunch of lunk heads rapists and murderers. Randall was in the barn because Rick put him there. Period.

As for the rest of your equation, I agree with that. Except I still believe a case can be made for who put Daryl in the position of interrogator.

So if he doesn't fall off the roof does he end up in the barn?

 

[Mister Ski]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

I agree with Nam and pixy. Rick is responsible for Randall since he rescued from the fence which was a BAD call. The guy was trying to kill you only minutes earlier and then is begging for his life. You let him die, no question about it especially since you are risking your life and ammo with walkers closing in all around.

It has become clear that devil would not survive more than a couple days (and that is being generous) in the Walking Dead world.

 

[Dark Passenger]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

It has become clear that devil would not survive more than a couple HOURS (and that is being generous) in the Walking Dead world.

FIXED (Sorry Devil)

 

[Kibagami]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

I agree with Nam and pixy. Rick is responsible for Randall since he rescued from the fence which was a BAD call. The guy was trying to kill you only minutes earlier and then is begging for his life. You let him die, no question about it especially since you are risking your life and ammo with walkers closing in all around.

It has become clear that devil would not survive more than a couple days (and that is being generous) in the Walking Dead world.

All them Grimes folks have a tenacity to inadvertently kill people anyone around them.

 

[devilof76]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

Randall's friends had abandoned him. Walkers were right there. Leaving him to die presented no risk whatsoever. Randall's death was guaranteed. Instead, Rick made the decision to bring him back to the farm (because he's weak), which presented the security risk, resulted in Randall getting beaten and executed anyway. That's all on Rick.

Executed isn't on Rick.

The security risk existed whether Randall lived or died.

Avoiding the risks of not letting Randall die on the fence would have left them without knowledge that the thugs knew about the farm, or that they outnumbered them, or that they outgunned them, or that they were only five miles away.

Leaving him would have put them at radically greater risk.

Rick's actions are the direct common denominator for anything and everything to do with Randall, upto and including Dale's death (referencing a lack of parenting).

If that's the case, then Shane's tantrum at the barn is what put Hershel in the bar in the first place. That's not an argument for causation.

 

[pixletwin]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Spoilers!!)

So if he doesn't fall off the roof does he end up in the barn?

You can take the blame all the way up to Randall's parents for having sex the night he was conceived. But you have to draw the line somewhere. Fact is, had Rick not chosen to take Randall's life into his hands, all the events of the last 3 episodes would not have occurred. That was the axis point upon which all the events which followed rests. That lies with Rick and Rick alone. The obvious keyword here is choice. If you can't see that you are just being obtuse.

Shane decision to murder Randall is a different matter.