darkknight
Super Freak
Got a party to go to, going to watch the encore when I get home. Hope I don't miss it.
UFC, etc.
- Thread starter Vader AL
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I f'n hate Sanchez!
How bout that KO of Koscheck, didnt see that one coming.
I absolutely despise Sanchez as well. think Penn has an ego? Sanchez has him beat by a mile, and the guy has never held any belt to back it up. I remember him saying in the prefight that he sees himself retiring at 100-0 then he lost to Kos
It's sad that the UFC basically had to spoon feed him to try and make him the "next best thing" to make TUF look good. He fought all powder-puff fighters for his first handful of fights.
I was pulling for Kos, was pretty shocked to see him get clocked like that. but that is what MMA is all about.
sscalltheway
Super Freak
...... My heart sank when Kos got dropped but that's bull^^^^ on the stoppage. He was out but when he hit the canvas he woke up and immediately had his hands up and was ready to pull guard.
Nah, i think it was a fair stoppage. the other dude could have pounced on him and put the hurt on. He was about to when the ref jumped in.
Also, Kos hasnt really been in that situation before so the ref doesnt know his tolerance level. guys that are known for their chins, the refs will usually give them the benefit of the doubt.
Devil_666
Super Freak
Like Nash said, first time Kos has ever been rocked and he's not known for even a moderate guard so that means nothing. Early stoppage? Yes. But did it matter? Nope. He would've just gotten hurt more.
Overall pretty good night of fights. Only disappointment for me was the utter lack of grappling in the main event. The few times they locked up I got excited but for the most part it was a boxing (Joe Daddy)/kickboxing match (Sanchez) with 2 guys who aren't KO punchers. So it was kinda lame. I wanted to see them grapple. Oh well.
sscalltheway
Super Freak
No disrespect guys and i really don't want to argue/turn this into a feud because i like all you guys on this thread, but never been rocked? I admit when i'm wrong and know the fighters i like. Koscheck is my favorite fighter and ive seen all his fights. Two fights ago he fought Thiago Alves and got the ^^^^ beat out of him. He was also dropped i think 3 times but managed to grab a single and get back up to his feet. True we don't know how his guard is but i doubt he's a slouch at it. Truthfully i think that Paulo Thiago still would have one since he would have been on top and is known for his ground game but never count someone out and give Koscheck a chance. Koscheck has been tested by the best in the game in his weight class: Diego Sanchez, GSP, THiago Alves, and CHris Lytle. Is there a argument that the fight should have been stopped? Yes. But is there also a argument that Koscheck should have been able to get roughed up a little bit more and given a opportunity? Yes. No matter what i think Koscheck needs to take this lesson and run with it, because most likely he underestimated his opponent and that cost him the fight.
Devil_666
Super Freak
Kos has been dropped before.. but he's never been rocked like that. He was still goofy when he was protesting the stoppage imo. I keep seeing people say that he was trying to pull guard!? Basically he fell on his back after being punched and had one arm in the air plus his legs. That's not pulling guard imo.. that's just how he fell. When Kos gets hit with the uppercut he's out. His hands drop and he begins to fall. Then Kos gets hit with another punch and falls HARD to the mat slamming the back of his head in the process. Look at the gif:
Like I said.. he doesn't "pull guard" at all. Kos' legs are around Thiago's left leg only. Kos isn't trying to get guard either.. because he's goofy in the head. Thiago could've easily sat down and been in side control. Do you think a coherrant Koscheck would allow another fighter to get that position so easily? Because I don't. He's constantly moving and active.. not just laying there.
Like I said.. he doesn't "pull guard" at all. Kos' legs are around Thiago's left leg only. Kos isn't trying to get guard either.. because he's goofy in the head. Thiago could've easily sat down and been in side control. Do you think a coherrant Koscheck would allow another fighter to get that position so easily? Because I don't. He's constantly moving and active.. not just laying there.
sscalltheway
Super Freak
There is a argument both ways, i think one or two punches after he fell would have been ok. I mean look at Wanderlei, Rampage dropped him and everything went limp and Rampage got to hit him at least two or three times before it was stopped. Koscheck is a tuff son of a ^^^^^ and i think he should have been giving a lot more time. He should have taken this fight a lot more seriously i think though.
You have a point, but even if the fight was not stopped when it was, and Thiago was able to punch Koz 2-3 more times before it was finally stopped. What's the difference if it was stopped 5 seconds too soon if the outcome would have been the same anyway?
Devil_666
Super Freak
Well technically.. Rampage was hitting Wandy WHILE the ref was trying to pull him off. Also, with their history and bad blood.. Quinton immediately followed Wandy to the ground and put the rape choke on him and started punching. Thiago wasn't trying to hurt Kos beyond winning. Soon as he knocked him down and saw how he fell.. he was done. If he would've pounced on Kos I guarantee people would've complained about a late stoppage and how Thiago is a ******.
Big Nog was allowed to be brutalized in the past because in most cases he was able to come from behind and win. That's why refs allowed him to take a little more punishment than other fighters. Because he was THAT good off his back with submissions, even hurt.
Kos isn't Big Nog though. He doesn't have the ground game to defend
himself in that situation, especially hurt. His top game is good.. but on his back, HURT!? No.
You sound like a fan sscalltheway.. so I'm confused. Did you want to see him completely unconscious, convulsing like Wandy!? lol.
Big Nog was allowed to be brutalized in the past because in most cases he was able to come from behind and win. That's why refs allowed him to take a little more punishment than other fighters. Because he was THAT good off his back with submissions, even hurt.
Kos isn't Big Nog though. He doesn't have the ground game to defend
himself in that situation, especially hurt. His top game is good.. but on his back, HURT!? No.
You sound like a fan sscalltheway.. so I'm confused. Did you want to see him completely unconscious, convulsing like Wandy!? lol.
Devil_666
Super Freak
It was real. Rampage says it's because Wandy and the rest of the old Chute box guys were all pricks in Japan. They wanted people to fear them.. and they acted like wanna be thugs. But Rampage wasn't affected by that.. since dude is from the streets. So he wasn't scared of Wandy, etc. And Rampage believes that's where the animosity stems from. Like in PRIDE.. when Wandy jumped in the ring and pushed Quinton.. that wasn't scripted. Wand seriously hates Rampage. So it is kinda one-sided. Rampage just wanted revenge for the 2 previous losses.
sscalltheway
Super Freak
I can see evryone's point and yes it's not like Koscheck can dispute it because it was close, i understand that. I'm just saying let the dude defend himself, i don't care if Koscheck has never been on the ground before, he has a lot of expirience in the octagon and has taken a beatong from the best in his weight class. Plus ive actually seen people get dropped then hit again and get waken up. All i'm saying is that Koscheck wasnt limp and was actually moving not spasing.
Devil_666
Super Freak
Yeah.. but this is MMA not Boxing. In Boxing you'd get a standing 8 count. In MMA you can't do that because there's fighting on the ground so it would be unfair.
Kos wasn't limp, Kos wasn't spasing.. and he WAS actually moving. Yes. That's not the question. The question is: could he intelligently defend himself?
In the refs eyes, the answer was NO.
In my eyes watching "live" (Westcoast so it wasn't really live) and watching replays, etc. my answer is also NO.
You can be hurt/absolutely stunned and buzzing and still move around. But your reaction time, and reaction speed is shot. Kos was still moving, but I guarantee other than flailing his arms around he wasn't going to dodge any shots Thiago would've threw at him. NONE. He would've just continued to throw his arms up off instinct. Not intelligently defending himself.
sscalltheway
Super Freak
How do we know that he wasnt defending himself inteligently? How do we know maybe it's his style? It comes down to a matter of opinion.
True too, but the only opinion that matters in this case is the refs.
sscalltheway
Super Freak
Agreed, the ref might have seen something that I/We did not. But i also havent seenhim ref before.
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