Utapau 12"

[MaulFan]

I think Irish's list is very thorough and detailed and agree that most folks probably won't notice the majority of those details.

However, I think a fair number will be like me, unable to narrow every off detail, but used to the screen designs enough that they'll feel and indescribably offness. All the innaccurracies by themselves are minorly off, but, because of the number of them, and the fact they're all within the same space basically, they create and overall off feeling aesthetic. For me the most bothering element is how the helmet seems to form into a beak, the arators being closer together makes the helmet seem a bit too wide and where the viser runs into the mouth area is a bit too fine and pointed looking.

Like Irish, I am not bothered by this stuff enough to be concerned about the final outcome for the Utapau Trooper, but I stand with him in wanting to at least get things corrected for future Clones as Utapau is just a cool trooper for me but there are ones like the 501st I really care about getting and want to look their sharpest.

As Irish has pointed out, the correct look is achievable and not out of the realm of possibility, so I stand with him in wanting to see SSC live up to it's potential. I already feel the use of ABS armor and weathering makes their Troopers tops, if they can nail this ROTS Clone helmet, it'll be the very best ROTS Clone you can get.

 

[Mad Old Lu]

Great comparison, Irish. It is a little troubling that Sideshow made such errors, especially with the mic and aerators that are completely wrong. Honestly I think there has to be another side to this. Were they working from an older rendition of the trooper? Did LFL tell them to model it after a different helmet? Is this an amalgam of helmets so they can use the same sculpt on many different troopers? There has to be a reason--not necessarily a good reason, but SOME reason.

 

[MaulFan]

I think at this point, reason is moot unless the reason is LFL dictation. If SSC's hands were tied on the matter, there'd be no point saying anything. If it's error or whatever, it's irrellevant, people here have made effort to show the correct details would ideally like the problems corrected.

 

[Darthrazz]

Could Lucasfilm be up to their old tricks? Maybe they are requesting these changes, perhaps a new direction they are trying to move in to tie in with the upcoming TV show, although it clearly should be the trooper as seen in ROTS?

 

[Mad Old Lu]

But think about this: If someone were to ask you to transcribe some text, told you to write everything exactly how it appears, you would do it, wouldn't you? You wouldn't start changing words and phrases here and there because you liked those better. And IF you did do that, you would probably bring it to your boss's attention and tell him, "the grammar was wrong on this sentence" or "this paragraph reads better if I change this". And your boss would say, "okay" or "no, just do it how it appears".

I just think there has to be some reason for the changes. You're right, it's all moot at this point. But I can't imagine that they would make these changes willy-nilly and without anyone saying anything.

 

[MaulFan]

It's a curious thing how this has come about. I don't want to subscribe to the idea LFL dictated it when so many other LFL licensees didn't have to do it, I already think poorly of some of their calls like the Mace sculpt, but if they were to come to a point where SSC got dictated things other licensees didn't it'd push me over the edge because SSC and eFX are the only high end licensees I really support, GG really went down the tubes in my mind and Koto's hit or miss.

 

[The Josh]

While there are indeed times where people are "picky" about things, in this case it's not that pragmatic. There are some obvious discrepancies between Sideshow's sculpt and the actual EP3 Clone helmet design. This is not at all like topics such as sticking on cloaks and whether something is the exact right color tone. The design/sculpt itself is wrong.

And, again... the 800 pound gorilla in this whole thing that no one can overlook is the fact that every other license (Hasbro included) has produced EP3 Clone product with much more accurate helmets than this. Sideshow's stands alone in its inaccuracy. They can and should do much better.

I understand there are some issues or at least some that people see. However, the fact is these were not that obvious until every John Madden on the board started drawing them out. I think you can see here that outside of a handful of folks it either slipped by because its not that obvious or people simply aren't picky enough to worry about it. I'd say for every 1 person that noticed it without being shown there are 2 that looked at it and said man thats nice.

Like Dave said SS is aware and probably working on it. I think some feel they need a written letter from Sideshow saying we fixed it or pics in the blog right now (which is what will happen most likely the pics in the blog eventually). I agree with Dave repeating this over and over serves nothing than to make some feel better. It clutters the thread where you can't discuss anything because this keeps popping up. Basically the point has been made and addressed.

 

[pixletwin]

OK Irish, you have won me over. This is not up to Sideshow's standard and I agree something must be changed.

I wouldn't have noticed most of those things but that doesn't let Sideshow off the hook. They have a reputation as a company which prides itself on accuracy. This should not have happened.

Okay, here's my breakdown...

First off, upon close study of the hi-res I noticed even a couple more thing, but those would really be ticky-tack... especially at this scale... so I left well enough alone.

I think it's important to note (and this is key)... that none of these issues were present in the Kotobukiya, Gentle Giant, or Medicom Clone helmets in this scale. Indeed, even the Hasbro 3.75" helmet were sculpted more accurately. So Sideshow definitely can and should do better here.

With that, here you go....

First, a pic of the Master Replicas helmet (produced directly from the original ILM elements):

Now, the Sideshow prototype with the incorrect areas noted:

1. The bottom portion of the visor is far too thin. The black is not painted all the way down to the top of the frown, and it should be (they should be connected, actually). Even if it were painted in, however, it's too thin throwing off the look and shape of the visor itself.

2. The frown is too rigid (it should be more curved... see pic at top) and also too small. The gray/black paint scheme of the vents are also incorrect. Again, this is something all the other licensees got right.

3. The aerators are just wrong, wrong, wrong. Not only the wrong color, but the wrong shape and size. Also (and even more notable) the entire shape of the underside of the helmet is off. The aerators should sit against a flat backing within their "loops" (shaped almost like a sideways "p" or "q"). Here, they're just stuck inside portions of the helmet that jut out. This will especially affect the look of the helmet in profile, as well. Again, the aerators are off... but so is that whole underneath area (also something all the other licensees got right).

4. Mic area is the wrong size/shape. And the mic itself is inaccurate.

5. Chin area is "pinched" to a near beak-like look. It should be smooth and gradually fade toward each side (again, compare the reference pic and pretty much another other EP3 clone helmet out there).

6. Not a deal-breaker, but the top fin sits a bit too low and doesn't have the gradient flow into the top of the helmet like it should. It almost appears as if it were sculpted separately and then stuck on.

And here they are to compare, side-by-side (with Sideshow's without my color boxes and numbers):

Again, one of the biggest qualms is not that Sideshow's is incorrect... it's that they didn't even nail it as much as Hasbro did on their little crappy 3.75 figures! And certainly not anywhere near as accurately as Master Replicas, Kotobukiya, Gentle Giant, Medicom, you name it.

Cool?

 

[nash]

I understand there are some issues or at least some that people see. However, the fact is these were not that obvious until every John Madden on the board started drawing them out. I think you can see here that outside of a handful of folks it either slipped by because its not that obvious or people simply aren't picky enough to worry about it. I'd say for every 1 person that noticed it without being shown there are 2 that looked at it and said man thats nice.

What you fail to realize is that the discrepancies ARE THAT obvious. It's just that most people are not educated enough to realize it or notice them until they were pointed out, drawn out, and explained in detail (because this is not a prop forum). To those people who KNOW what a to look for it is obvious upon first glance.

Like I said, not many of you have ever inspected an exact replica of the clone helmets in person. all you know is from what you saw on your tv or computer screens.

The same thing goes for the lightsabers or weapons. How would you know about the finer deatails that should or should not be there if youve never seen a 1:1 replica of one in person?

I don't think it has anything to do with being "too picky".


PS: Im not trying to sound condescending at all. Im just coming from a standpoint that my entry into high end collectibles started with 1:1 prop replicas way way before any of this statue and figures so I have a bit of history there. So does the mike and Irish.

 

[eighthsamurai]

this will probably be the last clone from ep.3 i get. i'm mainly getting it to contrast with the colours of medi's 501st and shock. they'll be displayed together so if the helmets end up looking this off i'll probably cancel. i'm not a mega SW fan so i have to admit i didn't notice the differences immediately (i don't have a photo in my head of what the helmets should look like, like nash said), but even without pointing them out, if you just put a side by side picture together you can see the differences, in a BIG way. obviously they're not big for some people. but they are for me. and SS's utapu actually looks ugly compared to the original design (which is frikking sweet).

so if it looks ugly next to my medis i'm out.

 

[MaulFan]

I don't think it has anything to do with being "too picky".

Picky would be posting that the space between the arators at 1/6 scale should be 0.3cm, simply saying they need to be further apart is just pointing out a fairly upfront flaw.

I equate the issues on this helmet to a Han sculpt without the crooked nose. I've seen sculpts not capture that feature, and they're great sculpts, but even with perfect eyes and everything else, it hurts the ability to buy into the portrait being Harrison. Same here, the features of a ROTS clone are there, but slight offness makes total acceptance of what's there to see a little hard.

 

[The Josh]

I think Irish's list is very thorough and detailed and agree that most folks probably won't notice the majority of those details.

It is very detailed but you hit the nail on the head most folks will never ever every notice nor care for that matter. I'm not saying SS should get away with theirs being wrong. I'm just saying the point has been made and at this point its just being picky for pickiness sake.

However, I think a fair number will be like me, unable to narrow every off detail, but used to the screen designs enough that they'll feel and indescribably offness. All the innaccurracies by themselves are minorly off, but, because of the number of them, and the fact they're all within the same space basically, they create and overall off feeling aesthetic. For me the most bothering element is how the helmet seems to form into a beak, the arators being closer together makes the helmet seem a bit too wide and where the viser runs into the mouth area is a bit too fine and pointed looking.

I don't think so. I think most folks are gonna be like me in they're fans of it but honestly wouldn't be able to pick out anything other than the mic area at best. There are far fewer people out there that notice these kinds of things than do notice them. Unless they are trained to look for those things at the very least.

I do notices it being off now but until it was all pointed out I didn't. I consider myself to be a pretty aware person for errors being a teacher and all.

Like Irish, I am not bothered by this stuff enough to be concerned about the final outcome for the Utapau Trooper, but I stand with him in wanting to at least get things corrected for future Clones as Utapau is just a cool trooper for me but there are ones like the 501st I really care about getting and want to look their sharpest.

I think everyone wants the next Clone to be as perfect as possible. Thts not whats being said here at all. I think the point is there's no point to keep bashing this drum. Its been said and been taken to the powers that be I'm pretty darn sure.

As Irish has pointed out, the correct look is achievable and not out of the realm of possibility, so I stand with him in wanting to see SSC live up to it's potential. I already feel the use of ABS armor and weathering makes their Troopers tops, if they can nail this ROTS Clone helmet, it'll be the very best ROTS Clone you can get.

Again, I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. Myself included. I think you and a few others are missing the point being made that its been brought up and SS is aware. What purpose does it solve to keep talking about it.

 

[pixletwin]

Again, I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. Myself included. I think you and a few others are missing the point being made that its been brought up and SS is aware. What purpose does it solve to keep talking about it.

Well it made me aware of it.

 

[BadMoon]

Well it made me aware of it.

I am aware of the issues and can finally now sleep at night.

 

[onethousandmasks]

Well I read this from Dusty on a ask Sideshow thread.

"Additionally, we will NEVER get involved in 'discussions' that are more personal attack than anything else. We will not be pulled into an argument about an artistic interpretation or a production decision that is based on a multitude of factors that collectors are not privy to (and never will be because it would mean revealing business information that we don't want our competitors to get a hold of). That's a lose-lose situation.

Now, if there's a legitimate concern like a general's uniform only has 4 stars instead of 5, an eye color or light saber color is incorrect, etc, that's a different story. We have and will continue to correct as many legitimate 'factual' errors as possible. Just because there may not be as much Sideshow posting being done, doesn't mean comments are not being read and digested.

The board itself has also grown 100% over the past couple years. Which means MANY more threads, and it's much harder to keep up with it all. Again, the main outlet for getting official answers from us in a timely manner is through Customer Service.

As we all keep growing, it requires a little more of a streamlined approach to Q&A or else we end up answering the same questions in 10 different places, which is quite redundant. We are trying to clear some time to answer to more 'Ask Sideshow' questions that have been officially submitted through our Ask Sideshow form - https://www.sideshowtoy.com/php/asksideshow.php - so watch for that. Plus, read over the archives (accessible through the Ministry of Information) to see if some of your questions have already been answered - https://www.sideshowtoy.com/ministry....ubsection=2513 "

Maybe they are working on it.

 

[MaulFan]

It is very detailed but you hit the nail on the head most folks will never ever every notice nor care for that matter. I'm not saying SS should get away with theirs being wrong. I'm just saying the point has been made and at this point its just being picky for pickiness sake.



I don't think so. I think most folks are gonna be like me in they're fans of it but honestly wouldn't be able to pick out anything other than the mic area at best. There are far fewer people out there that notice these kinds of things than do notice them. Unless they are trained to look for those things at the very least.

I do notices it being off now but until it was all pointed out I didn't. I consider myself to be a pretty aware person for errors being a teacher and all.



I think everyone wants the next Clone to be as perfect as possible. Thts not whats being said here at all. I think the point is there's no point to keep bashing this drum. Its been said and been taken to the powers that be I'm pretty darn sure.



Again, I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. Myself included. I think you and a few others are missing the point being made that its been brought up and SS is aware. What purpose does it solve to keep talking about it.

I hear ya Josh, and if it hadn't been brought up, I wouldn't have said boo, I like to chat, someone brought it up and I just am throwing out my thoughts. As redundant as some of this discussion is, it's at least positive in that the people griping are doing so in hopes to achieve a better product and I'm glad to be involved in that as too often, such discussion ends up pointless ^^^^^ing for the sake of ^^^^^ing and not actually thought out ideas and concepts. And at this point, there's little to be said on this figure outside of discussing the issues, if that weren't talked about this thread would be on like page 3 until shipping time came or production photos popped up.

 

[The Josh]

What you fail to realize is that the discrepancies ARE THAT obvious. It's just that most people are not educated enough to realize it or notice them until they were pointed out, drawn out, and explained in detail (because this is not a prop forum). To those people who KNOW what a to look for it is obvious upon first glance.

They may well be if you pay attention to 1:1 props most fans aren't though. So most fans are going to go whats the big deal.

Like I said, not many of you have ever inspected an exact replica of the clone helmets in person. all you know is from what you saw on your tv or computer screens.

You're correct. Thats not a reason for SS to get it wrong and keep it wrong either.

I don't think it has anything to do with being "too picky".

Not in every instance but there are plenty especially with SW that fans are just way too picky on things.

PS: Im not trying to sound condescending at all. Im just coming from a standpoint that my entry into high end collectibles started with 1:1 prop replicas way way before any of this statue and figures so I have a bit of history there. So does the mike and Irish.

I didn't take it that way. I understand where you guys are coming from. I'm just saying the point has been made and we have to wait and see now what happens. Also that most fans outside of what they see on screen wouldn't notice anything like this unless drawn out for them.

 

[The Josh]

I hear ya Josh, and if it hadn't been brought up, I wouldn't have said boo, I like to chat, someone brought it up and I just am throwing out my thoughts. As redundant as some of this discussion is, it's at least positive in that the people griping are doing so in hopes to achieve a better product and I'm glad to be involved in that as too often, such discussion ends up pointless ^^^^^ing for the sake of ^^^^^ing and not actually thought out ideas and concepts. And at this point, there's little to be said on this figure outside of discussing the issues, if that weren't talked about this thread would be on like page 3 until shipping time came or production photos popped up.

I understand and I'm not trying to limit anyone's posting or be a jerk as some think I am. For me all we're doing now is repeating ourselves and upping our post counts.

 

[FlyAndFight]

I tend to look at the Utapau helmet like I would a regular figure's headsculpt. For me, the headsculpt is key. A well done sculpt can save a mediocre figure. A headsculpt with faults will bring a good figure down.

Some may see a headsculpt and say, "Hey, it looks good enough to me."

Others will look and say, "Yeah, there's a somewhat resemblance of the actor, but they should narrow the chin, change the eye color to a lighter brown and add longer hair. THEN it will really look like the actor/character."

I think we're getting into that realm of opinions here with the helmet. Sure, the way it is, it's definitely recognizable as an Utapau clone. -BUT- Make the subtle corrections to the helmet and we'll only be elevating the figure to a new and correct shaped level.

It just depends on what one is willing to settle for.

I'm with Irish Jedi on this one. The changes needed are subtle but in my opinion, necessary. Why settle for "looks ok" when you can have "They nailed it!" Just my opinion.

 

[MaulFan]

I understand and I'm not trying to limit anyone's posting or be a jerk as some think I am. For me all we're doing now is repeating ourselves and upping our post counts.

I don't think you're being a jerk. I think this all got blown out of proportion when it got personal awhile back. Is repeatedly bringing up the point going to do much after a certain point, probably not. On the flip side, it's not hurting anyone because it's all been civil and thought versus random rants. If people feel other things should be talked about regarding this piece other than the inaccurracies, I say step forward and speak up, this thread is pretty much devoted to the inaccurracies because there's little chat about anything else and like I said, the thread would probably be on page 3 by now because of that. It's like thenam, nothing wrong with them wanting to not see tons of posts of criticisms, but why so much effort to go after the people making the critical remarks instead of just bringing up other points for discussion.