I see. So only some bloody secession is accepted free and clear.
Where do you stand on Palin's endorsement of Alaskan independence?
Vice Presidential Debate Tonight - Biden vs. Palin.... DING, DING, DING
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I see. So only some bloody secession is accepted free and clear.
Where do you stand on Palin's endorsement of Alaskan independence?
ProgMatinee
circlesendwheretheybegin
Free and clear? Do you think either the American Revolution or Civil War were easy and weren't paid for in blood and tears? LOL.
Never heard of it.
LChinoz
Super Freak
https://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/04/us/politics/04party.html?ref=politics
She gave a speech supporting the AIP and her husband Todd joined. It just as it sounds, a party who's purpose is to have Alaska secede from the US and become it's own independent state.
I'm speaking in moral terms. You seem to be giving the American Revolution a free pass but hedging your bets elsewhere. I'm just playing Devil's Advocate. But I do think if the Founding Fathers tried to do today what they did more than 200 years ago people like Mesa would be calling for their heads.
So much for the liberal media.
ProgMatinee
circlesendwheretheybegin
It seems you're assuming that "people like Mesa" would side with the current government regardless of the current government's position on topics.
You're grouping all rebels and all foundations together. The principles matter, not positions of strength.
Mesa
Super Freak
I think Mesa is a smart guy. He just has different values and beliefs, which I fully understand. That is an interesting non-scientific graphic though
Thanks, I appreciate it.
Yep. Considering the "terrorist" mania and the unwillingness to let things lie after four decades I think that's a fair assumption. When even Nelson Mandela can't get a pass you know you're dealing with an absolute mindset.
Now I'm willing to entertain a discussion based on motive and the like but that's not exactly what's been put forward by most in the Ayers smear campaign. Violence against the government = terrorism and that is that. I'm pleased to hear you have a more nuanced view.
Bear in mind the Chinese consider the Dalai Lama a terrorist.
RoboDad
Super Freak
You'll have to do a bit better than that. Even the NY Times, as left-leaning as they are, didn't stoop to such misleading claims.
Sarah Palin did not give a speech supporting the AIP. She recorded the following video "greeting" :
And though her husband did join, he did not participate in any party activities, other than attending one convention in Wasilla where a candidate for governor was nominated.
It also strikes me that your stated claim of the purpose of the AIP is at odds with the very first items on their stated platform:
- To effect full compliance with the constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Alaska.
- To support and defend States' Rights, Individual Rights, Property Rights, and the Equal Footing Doctrine as guaranteed by the constitutions of the United States of America and the state of Alaska.
I may not be a rocket scientist, but do we usually tell people to keep up the good work if we disagree with their agenda?
That's just political cover. All you need to know is Joe Vogler.
Or at least, those would be the answers if I were a Republican trying to smear Obama for his association with Ayers. See how silly it all is? I've said many times I don't buy into any of this moronic guilt-by-association nonsense on either side, which is why I've never seriously attacked McCain or Palin on here for their equally dodgy histories and relationships. I wonder how many conservatives are big enough to do the same in reverse?
LChinoz
Super Freak
https://www.akip.org/
Official website.
The Alaskan Independence Party can be summed up in just two words:
ALASKA FIRST!
Until we as Alaskans receive our Ultimate Goal, the AIP will continue to strive to make Alaska a better place to live with less government interference in our everyday lives.
The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:
1) Remain a Territory.
2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.
3) Accept Commonwealth status.
4) Become a State.
Mesa
Super Freak
You don't know me, you deranged lunatic.
But when I see our country ignoring or giving a pass to an individual that clearly has many questionable relations with less than ethical people involved in domestic terrorism and hate-mongering, I'm not going to sit here quietly and say nothing.
RoboDad
Super Freak
Which only states that they feel (rightly or wrongly) that the people of the state did not have the voice in their road to statehood that they should have had. Calling for a vote of the people of the state is different from calling for secession, unless it is widely known that the majority of the people in the state favor secession.
I'm not sure where this is coming from. I'm not the one who builds out a fantasy portrait of Obama and then cravenly runs away when called out on it point by point. Where I come from we call that libel. The very least you can do is admit you made up that guff about Obama not saluting the flag when presented with a picture of Obama saluting the flag.
Now that's an interesting relationship with reality. It may be fair to have described Ayers as a terrorist forty years ago but these days he's more likely to be teaching students about eduction than following in the strategic footsteps of George Washington.
We've been over your inability to demonstrate any "hate mongering" on behalf of Obama's acquaintances. These generally take the form of grossly out-of-context quotes by people who seem incapable of reading.
And of course you're also lying, because when it comes right down to it you are "giving a pass to an individual that clearly has many questionable relations with less than ethical people involved in domestic terrorism and hate-mongering."
And his name is John McCain.
AIP founder Joe Vogler, a guy AIP chairwoman Lynette Clark says Sarah Palin "sounds just like:"
• "My government is my worst enemy. I'm going to fight them with any means at hand."
• "Our goal is ultimate independence by peaceful means under a minimal government fully responsive to the people. I hope we don't have to take human life, but if they go on tramping on our property rights, look out, we're ready to die."
• "The fires of Hell are glaciers compared to my hate for the American Government, and I won't be buried under their damn flag."
What an easy game to play.
Mesa
Super Freak
I'm not sure where this is coming from. I'm not the one who builds out a fantasy portrait of Obama and then cravenly runs away when called out on it point by point. Where I come from we call that libel. The very least you can do is admit you made up that guff about Obama not saluting the flag when presented with a picture of Obama saluting the flag.
Now that's an interesting relationship with reality. It may be fair to have described Ayers as a terrorist forty years ago but these days he's more likely to be teaching students about eduction than following in the strategic footsteps of George Washington.
We've been over your inability to demonstrate any "hate mongering" on behalf of Obama's acquaintances. These generally take the form of grossly out-of-context quotes by people who seem incapable of reading.
And of course you're also lying, because when it comes right down to it you are "giving a pass to an individual that clearly has many questionable relations with less than ethical people involved in domestic terrorism and hate-mongering."
And his name is John McCain.
I'm not in a place where I can provide links to the video with Obama's hands at his side while everyone else held hand over heart during National Anthem. Also not able to provide the many various links of Jeramiah wright spewing hatred from his pulpit at the same church that Obama attended for 20 years. I've posted them in the past. Even if I did provide them for your review/approval, they'd probably be dismissed as being out of context.
And I like how 40 years is supposed to be the appropriate amount of time to dismiss and excuse the attempted murder of AMERICAN JUDGES, POLICE MEN, & SOLDIERS. I don't give a crap if he now teaches at a university, I can not forgive or forget his past sins. And Obama should know that when you associate with a person such as Ayers, it's probably not a wise political move, unless he really is that naive.
You're view is so warped, it's not even worth trying to have a discussion/debate with you.
LChinoz
Super Freak
I don't think the AIP is an issue, I was trying to inform others of it. Thought I'd post this as well, also from the official website:
"I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."
Joe Vogler
https://www.akip.org/introduction.html
Again, it is NOT an issue for me, but to say it is just a run-of-the-mill party is false. In any case, Sarah Palin is not a member of it.
RoboDad
Super Freak
LChinoz
Super Freak
I think the point is that both sides have shady associations, but because Obama is an unknown to a lot of people (I don't know how he could be, but he is) they try and paint him as "one of them." Hence, someone in the crowd at a McCain rally, when asked who is the real Obama, he/she yelled out "terrorist!" Don't care if you agree or disagree with his associations or politics, he is a sitting U.S. Senator and to be called a terrorist is DISGUSTING. McCain fought for the country so his patriotism is not questioned (ironically so did Jeramiah Wright), although McCain does have bad judgement calls of his own. I really want to focus on issues in here, so we don't get teh lock
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Darklord Dave
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Here's another warning - personal attacks will not be allowed here.
On the Wright side:
Obama was raised by an atheist mother. I'd imagine that he realized he had to join a Christian church for political reasons and I'd bet that his wife brought him to that particular church.
Complete conjecture on my part of course, but he seems like too smart a guy to really get wrapped up in the whole religion thing at all, much less one that's a bit radical.
My parents forced me to go to church for 16 years, I can see someone humoring the spouse for 20 years too.
On the Wright side:
Obama was raised by an atheist mother. I'd imagine that he realized he had to join a Christian church for political reasons and I'd bet that his wife brought him to that particular church.
Complete conjecture on my part of course, but he seems like too smart a guy to really get wrapped up in the whole religion thing at all, much less one that's a bit radical.
My parents forced me to go to church for 16 years, I can see someone humoring the spouse for 20 years too.
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