WATCHMEN Movie Discussion (SPOILERS allowed)!

[barbelith]

It's a simple visual aesthetic reference to the suits in those films and all but tongue-in-cheek. Not everything has to be some mind-exploding "statement", Brainiac.

Why don't you look up parody or satire and give it another shot. In what way is it tongue in cheek? What is being conveyed by that? Why is it there?

 

[IrishJedi]

I seem to remember IJ saying TDK was "much more mainstream"...

Isn't that different than saying something isn't mainstream?

Exactly. But why let that little detail get in the way of some good online bed-wetting.

 

[CelticPredator]

So what's the point? What specific statement is being made with that suit, and how does that play out in the film? Good luck!

Ozy is a overly heroic superhero.

How does it play in the film? It doesnt. Its a joke. Its all a joke.

 

[barbelith]

I seem to remember IJ saying TDK was "much more mainstream"...

I seem to remember much of the contemporary discussion around The Dark Knight focusing on how mainstream it wasn't.

 

[IrishJedi]

Why don't you look up parody or satire and give it another shot. In what way is it tongue in cheek? What is being conveyed by that? Why is it there?

:Sigh: You can be such an overly pretentious pain in the arse sometimes, you know that?

Not that this will satisfy your quest for the Rosetta Stone, but here are Snyder's own words on the Ozy costume and his reasoning for it:

"When we talk about mass culture embracing superhero movies, for instance, with Ozymandias's costume, it's, 'Oh, he has nipples. It's like a Joel Schumacher thing.' That's not an accident. Nipples didn't just show up on that costume because we thought it was cool. It's because we want to say, 'Yeah. Joel Schumacher made a bunch of superhero movies.'

"That's part of the language of cinema. You can see it in Nixon's war room in the film - it's so Dr Strangelove, it's ridiculous. We were in there going, 'We're going to get sued for this, this is crazy.' When Rorschach walks down the streets of New York, it's Taxi Driver. And you have to do that with that stuff."

It's about referencing other types of movies visually, not "saying something". Good lord, go drink some cranberry juice or something.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Could have been different people, could be different definitions of mainstream. IMO Batman is about as mainstream as turkeys on Thanksgiving.

 

[barbelith]

Ozy is a overly heroic superhero.

Ignoring for the moment that in the film he's nothing of the sort, what does this have to do with nipples on his suit?

How does it play in the film? It doesnt. Its a joke. Its all a joke.

Okay. How is it a joke? Should be simple enough to explain, right? But I don't think you can do it, because I don't think it's a joke at all. I don't actually think it's anything more than a pointless visual reference from someone who mistakes allusion for commentary.

 

[The Mike]

1.Silk Specter II was just emotionless. Very wooden acting, and I wish they displayed more of the hatred she felt toward the Comedian.

I will say this, the Silk Spectre II storyline was butchered, it didn't work on film the way it was presented. The revelation that The Comedian was her father was a left field for those unaware of the original story because all of the hatred, all of the disstain was removed. I remember the guy next to me watching said "So he is her father so what?" Malin isn't the best actor but they cut a lot of what she could have had to work with.

I don't think that's true. The Dark Knight resonated because it was so well made. Watchmen just wasn't. Pretending it's not mainstream and the sheep didn't get it is going to be the obvious defense, but at the end of the day Zack Snyder just isn't half the director Chris Nolan is and he made a plodding, pretty mess that doesn't hold up if you apply the barest hint of thought to it.

Here is the thing, TDK and Watchmen are two completely different films. The comparisons aren't valid from anyone.

What made TDK great was that the directors and storytellers made the film like a crime drama, told a story similar to Heat or others like it and the characters were in that particular drama. The story of mob wars and a terrorist preying on a city could be told without Batman or the Joker but the fact that after that story was written the hero was tailored to Batman and the Joker was tailored to the terrorist made it phenomenal because it didn't feel like a comic book movie, it just felt like a movie which is what comic fans have been screaming for, it broke the genre line and enamored both comic fans and casual fans alike. It took from various stories to pen together a film that isn't directly tied to one particular line.

Watchmen was as true of a telling of the comics as possible. It was almost frame for frame for a good part of it the comic we've read. The thing is to accurately make it they'd have to make it a 6 hour film, to cut it down to 2 hours and 45 minutes they obviously compacted it some good and some not so good. For me it was close enough to give respect to the source and Synder should be commended for that. If you went in expecting TDK, you would have been disappoint from the go.

TDK was trying to be a genre separted film and succeeded.
Watchmen was trying to be Watchmen and in my opinion succeeded.

Synder and Nolan's directing skills can't really be compared in that they were attempting two different things. If Nolan was doing a direct page to screen adaptation I'd be interested to see how it went and then you can choose sides but Nolan told Nolan's Batman tale. Synder told Moore's Watchmen tale (for the most part).

Despite what anyone says they can't be compared.

he did make batman cool again. maybe he should've directed Watchmen

Batman has been cool. What Nolan did is broaden the audience.

 

[CelticPredator]

Its a joke.

 

[Sick Boy 82]

Thinking about going to see this again tomorrow morning on the gigantic IMAX in the city. Probably an early show so it's nice and quiet.

 

[barbelith]

It's about referencing other types of movies visually, not "saying something".

I'm confused. On the one hand, this is held up in some quarters as an example of how clever the movie is. On the other hand, you're arguing there is literally no subtext and no point.

"When we talk about mass culture embracing superhero movies, for instance, with Ozymandias's costume, it's, 'Oh, he has nipples. It's like a Joel Schumacher thing.' That's not an accident. Nipples didn't just show up on that costume because we thought it was cool. It's because we want to say, 'Yeah. Joel Schumacher made a bunch of superhero movies.'

And?

 

[barbelith]

Its a joke.

So you keep saying. But I can't help but notice you continually avoid trying to explain it.

 

[CelticPredator]

Its all a joke.

 

[Kuzeh]

I love the lack of irony here. Hilarious how nobody ever gets up on their high horse when people claim it's great.

I was referring to all comments here in general...
But constantly bashing a movie you don't like seems like a stupid waste of time to me...
I'm sure there's plenty of threads out there that people who don't like Watchmen will enjoy... Just saying!

 

[barbelith]

Exactly. But why let that little detail get in the way of some good online bed-wetting.

I disagree The Dark Knight is more mainstream than Watchmen in terms of film. Sorry to see your failure to construct a solid argument means you have to jump straight to the juvenile character assassination.

 

[EVILFACE]

So you keep saying. But I can't help but notice you continually avoid trying to explain it.

He doesnt know.

 

[CelticPredator]

 

[YoNoSe]

So you keep saying. But I can't help but notice you continually avoid trying to explain it.

Your teenage years must have been a blasty for your parents.

 

[CelticPredator]

He doesnt know.

Do you? Do you think you could change someone's opinion? Because I dont think you can. So it is futile.

 

[barbelith]

He doesnt know.

Clearly. Which is, you know, rather hilarious in light of the argument (not from him necessarily) that Watchmen is underperforming because people don't get it.