What should be done to killers?

[Blackthornone]

Different people have different personalities that are affected by different environments in different ways, but an abusive environment or one that finds violence entertaining or good is not good for ANYONE.

 

[a-dev]

People are...and no you could have become that, but you also have an understanding between right and wrong. Morals have a large role when it comes to how people turn out to be. Some people become the exact opposite of what they were raised around, while others become what they were around.

This is true but I don't think its a very useful point to make what with nothing guaranteed either way.

 

[Darko99]

This is true but I don't think its a very useful point to make what with nothing guaranteed either way.

Yeah, that is true. Nothing is guaranteed when it comes to things like this. It really is just about the person and how they perceive the events that take place in their life.

 

[Blackthornone]

I can't tell if you're a troll or a severely misguided individual. So everyone else is supposed to change so a few psychos don't flip their lids. No more violence in movies, no more action movies, no more video games, no more songs with suggestive lyrics. Is that what you're saying?

Well, no more horror movies or gratuitous violence in movies or TV or video games, yes. It needs to be understood that what kind of entertainment there is affects people, but then, that's the point, isn't it? If a a movie or video game didn't affect people, no one would be entertained by it, right? People need to understand that if you put violent entertainment out there, that some people will be more prone to use violence to solve their problems, maybe even most people will find it more appealing, but only a few will go out on a shooting rampage against innocents. It is a cost/ benefit analysis, pure and simple.

At the very least, violent entertainment desensitizes people to violence and reduces compassion for other people. To what degree someone is affected depends upon the individual affected.

There is a social cost to violence in entertainment. That said, I like action movies i which violence is used as a necessary evil to defend against the bad guys or defeat them, so I am not personally interested in removing said entertainment unless I become aware of compelling evidence that the absence of same would make for a better society.
If I became convinced of the need to remove that stuff, then I would be irresponsible and arrogant to oppose the halting of it's production as much as I might personally like it.

If it could be proved that "No more violence in movies, no more action movies, no more video games, no more songs with suggestive lyrics." would save one innocent life, prevent on psycho from flipping their lids and killing people, WOULD that be enough of an incentive to indeed prevent the production of that entertainment to you? It is a relevant question. How many lives would need to be spared, or how many killers would need to be prevented? What is an acceptable cost/benefit ratio for YOU?

 

[csi]

People are...and no you could have become that, but you also have an understanding between right and wrong. Morals have a large role when it comes to how people turn out to be. Some people become the exact opposite of what they were raised around, while others become what they were around.

that would make it seem like people have free will and a choice how they act.

Well, no more horror movies or gratuitous violence in movies or TV or video games, yes. It needs to be understood that what kind of entertainment there is affects people, but then, that's the point, isn't it? If a a movie or video game didn't affect people, no one would be entertained by it, right? People need to understand that if you put violent entertainment out there, that some people will be more prone to use violence to solve their problems, maybe even most people will find it more appealing, but only a few will go out on a shooting rampage against innocents. It is a cost/ benefit analysis, pure and simple.

At the very least, violent entertainment desensitizes people to violence and reduces compassion for other people. To what degree someone is affected depends upon the individual affected.

There is a social cost to violence in entertainment. That said, I like action movies i which violence is used as a necessary evil to defend against the bad guys or defeat them, so I am not personally interested in removing said entertainment unless I become aware of compelling evidence that the absence of same would make for a better society.
If I became convinced of the need to remove that stuff, then I would be irresponsible and arrogant to oppose it's production as much as I might personally like it.

If it could be proved that "No more violence in movies, no more action movies, no more video games, no more songs with suggestive lyrics." would save one innocent life, prevent on psycho from flipping their lids and killing people, WOULD that be enough of an incentive to indeed prevent the production of that entertainment to you? It is a relevant question. How many lives would need to be spared, or how many killers would need to be prevented? What is an acceptable cost/benefit ratio for YOU?

do you have any factual evidence to back this crap up with. Japan has one of the most violent cultures when it comes to tv/movie/video game violence, yet has one of the lowest crime rates.

 

[a-dev]

Its pointless to even talk about that though. Who decides what level of violence in films is going overboard - I wouldn't consider the Batman films particularly extreme but this guy called himself the Joker and killed all these people, only sheer happenstance that he didn't kill more. Is this to say that Batman is a benchmark for violence that has to be banned plus anything that would be considered a higher level of extreme? Then what happens when another mass killer pops up inspired by the A-team? A show that has guns but no death. Do you then ban anything that merely has the presence of guns in it?

Point is, theres gonna be psychotics no matter what. What they latch onto doesn't really matter.

 

[clockwork463]

Well, no more horror movies or gratuitous violence in movies or TV or video games, yes. It needs to be understood that what kind of entertainment there is affects people, but then, that's the point, isn't it? If a a movie or video game didn't affect people, no one would be entertained by it, right? People need to understand that if you put violent entertainment out there, that some people will be more prone to use violence to solve their problems, maybe even most people will find it more appealing, but only a few will go out on a shooting rampage against innocents. It is a cost/ benefit analysis, pure and simple.

At the very least, violent entertainment desensitizes people to violence and reduces compassion for other people. To what degree someone is affected depends upon the individual affected.

There is a social cost to violence in entertainment. That said, I like action movies i which violence is used as a necessary evil to defend against the bad guys or defeat them, so I am not personally interested in removing said entertainment unless I become aware of compelling evidence that the absence of same would make for a better society.
If I became convinced of the need to remove that stuff, then I would be irresponsible and arrogant to oppose it's production as much as I might personally like it.

If it could be proved that "No more violence in movies, no more action movies, no more video games, no more songs with suggestive lyrics." would save one innocent life, prevent on psycho from flipping their lids and killing people, WOULD that be enough of an incentive to indeed prevent the production of that entertainment to you? It is a relevant question. How many lives would need to be spared, or how many killers would need to be prevented? What is an acceptable cost/benefit ratio for YOU?

You can debate about what sets off people to do terrible things but at the end of the day the only thing responsible for what happened was the person that did it.

Everyone gets to a point in life where you have to accept that you are solely responsible for the things you do, we can only scrutinize people like this in retrospect and we can come up with all the possible reasons why they've done these horrible things but the cold hard truth is that crazy people are going to do crazy things regardless of the movie they saw that day or there bad childhood or whatever justification you might think up.

There is absolutely no normal justification for things like this. We might as well blame frosted flakes for it because the guy might of had a bad breakfast making him feel bad that day thus setting him off.

The guy is probably sitting around right now going back and forth in his head telling himself why hes justified in doing this but in the back of his head, if hes not 100% insane he knows he probably just did it out of some misdirected anger at society or some other stupidity. Parents/environment can really ____ up kids bad but when you get to a certain age you have to take control and stop blaming other people/things for your ____ty circumstances.

 

[willocrew]

These psychotic gunmen are an absolute disgusting bunch. They are like Muslim extremist suicide bombers. Both are not right up there n the head. They are both idealistic fools.

There Is absolutely no justification for such things. I don't care if you're abused as a child or what or if you're dropped on the head. Many people suffer abuse and depression but they don't go around killing people!

It is kinda like the mentality of perpertrators of genocide like hitler except on a smaller scale; why do they do it? They do it because they can and they want to.

Plain evil.

 

[clockwork463]

These psychotic gunmen are an absolute disgusting bunch. They are like Muslim extremist suicide bombers. Both are not right up there n the head. They are both idealistic fools.

Not getting laid really ____s people up after a while....

 

[Blackthornone]

You can debate about what sets off people to do terrible things like this but at the end of the day the only thing responsible for what happened was the person that did it.

Everyone gets to a point in life where you have to accept that you are solely responsible for the things you do, we can only scrutinize people like this in retrospect and we can come up with all the possible reasons why they've done these horrible things but the cold hard truth is that crazy people are going to do crazy things regardless of the movie they saw that day or there bad childhood or whatever justification you might think up.

There is absolutely no normal justification for things like this. We might as well blame frosted flakes for it because the guy might of had a bad breakfast making him feel bad that day thus setting him off.

The guy is probably sitting around right now going back and forth in his head telling himself why hes justified in doing this but in the back of his head, if hes not 100% insane he knows he probably just did it out of some misdirected anger at society or some other stupidity. Parents/environment can really ____ up kids bad but when you get to a certain age you have to take control and stop blaming other people/things for your ____ty circumstances.

I am interested more in preventing the problem than assigning blame. That said, of course this guy bears more of the responsibility for this, but there are factors in the culture that, shall we say, made this an easier decision for him to make. It made it a bit more appealing to do it than not to. The straw that broke the camel's back maybe, and however small it might be, if a problem in the culture contributed to this, it needs to be addressed. If you want to prevent this stuff from happening, it would be very irresponsible not to.
There is no JUSTIFICATION for this, but there is explanation. There is no excuse, but there are things that contributed to it, which he was not responsible for.
He was responsible for what he did, and should bear the full punishment for that.

Still, we should examine what might have exacerbated his condition in the culture which might have added more momentum along the track he was already going down, and what might have sent him down this path, even though that same cause might not have sent another to do the same thing.You see, I really want to have the best, most affordable prevention for this kind of thing, which is more than 10 times more important to me than watching violent entertainment is to me.

 

[willocrew]

Not getting laid really ____s people up after a while....

Lol. But seriously I really can't begin to understand the mind of these mad people. Why do they do it?

With rapist, even though i do not wish to belittle the gravity of the crime, at the very least there is a rationale: they are horny.

Crimes of passion like murder, they were angry at that spur of the moment and accudentally smack the person across a sensitive eggshell head and thereby killing them.

Paedophiles? Well they watch too much Japanese anime and buy too many bishoujo statues.

 

[Darko99]

There is no stopping things like this. In my honest opinion. TV and videogames do not cause things like this. It is more the chemical balance in their brain. Even his mother said she wasn't surprised that it was him. Showing that he had problems before hand. Like someone said before about the problem in our culture with violence and how it may contribute to things like this. It may be slightly true, but really what would the media do with out things like this? Everyday it is death on channel 11 and oh look more death at 11pm. It won't stop, because they live off of it. I do not believe someone, in the right mind in the first place, could see a guy gun down 12 people and think "Oh I know what I'm doing!"

 

[Blackthornone]

These psychotic gunmen are an absolute disgusting bunch. They are like Muslim extremist suicide bombers. Both are not right up there n the head. They are both idealistic fools.

There Is absolutely no justification for such things. I don't care if you're abused as a child or what or if you're dropped on the head. Many people suffer abuse and depression but they don't go around killing people!

It is kinda like the mentality of perpertrators of genocide like hitler except on a smaller scale; why do they do it? They do it because they can and they want to.

Plain evil.

I agree with your comparison of this gunman to terrorists. What he did was beyond mere murder. It was an act of terrorism, and I would not object to him being found guilty of that.

Not everyone goes around killing people because of bad environment, but some definitely do. Just because some don't does not mean that a bad environment does not cause bad behavior.
A gentle wind cannot move an anvil, but does that mean it cannot move a feather?
That is the rationale people are talking about when they say that a bad environment can't make people bad.

As far as them doing it because they can and want to, wee are back to WHY they want to. With all due respect, just because they can and want to is an overly simplistic explanation that does not examine all of the factors that form human character.

 

[clockwork463]

Lol. But seriously I really can't begin to understand the mind of these mad people. Why do they do it?

With rapist, even though i do not wish to belittle the gravity of the crime, at the very least there is a rationale: they are horny.

Crimes of passion like murder, they were angry at that spur of the moment and accudentally smack the person across a sensitive eggshell head and thereby killing them.

Paedophiles? Well they watch too much Japanese anime and buy too many bishoujo statues.

they all have different reasons i'm sure , and they'll justify there actions in different ways but its almost impossible to pin down exactly why these crazy *******s do it.

Being born into a third world country where your not allowed to really be yourself or have sex or do the things you want to do might make blowing yourself up for some vag seem like a good idea; but there's always going to be people in the same circumstances persevering, showing everyone you don't have to do crazy things to feel like you have some control.

Unfortunately though there are people with feelings of anger and sadism that are purely innate and these people are always going to break our hearts no matter what we do...

 

[csi]

Its pointless to even talk about that though. Who decides what level of violence in films is going overboard - I wouldn't consider the Batman films particularly extreme but this guy called himself the Joker and killed all these people, only sheer happenstance that he didn't kill more. Is this to say that Batman is a benchmark for violence that has to be banned plus anything that would be considered a higher level of extreme? Then what happens when another mass killer pops up inspired by the A-team? A show that has guns but no death. Do you then ban anything that merely has the presence of guns in it?

Point is, theres gonna be psychotics no matter what. What they latch onto doesn't really matter.

honestly when I was watching TDK two nights ago I was pretty amazed at how much gore they deliberately eliminated from the movie. There were multiple scenes where the Joker cut or killed someone where they showed you the motion then cut away so you didn't see any of the graphicness of the action. Same for Rises as well.

These psychotic gunmen are an absolute disgusting bunch. They are like Muslim extremist suicide bombers. Both are not right up there n the head. They are both idealistic fools.

There Is absolutely no justification for such things. I don't care if you're abused as a child or what or if you're dropped on the head. Many people suffer abuse and depression but they don't go around killing people!

It is kinda like the mentality of perpertrators of genocide like hitler except on a smaller scale; why do they do it? They do it because they can and they want to.

Plain evil.

Something we can agree on.

I am interested more in preventing the problem than assigning blame. That said, of course this guy bears more of the responsibility for this, but there are factors in the culture that, shall we say, made this an easier decision for him to make. It made it a bit more appealing to do it than not to. The straw that broke the camel's back maybe, and however small it might be, if a problem in the culture contributed to this, it needs to be addressed. If you want to prevent this stuff from happening, it would be very irresponsible not to.
There is no JUSTIFICATION for this, but there is explanation. There is no excuse, but there are things that contributed to it, which he was not responsible for.
He was responsible for what he did, and should bear the full punishment for that.

Still, we should examine what might have exacerbated his condition in the culture which might have added more momentum along the track he was already going down, and what might have sent him down this path, even though that same cause might not have sent another to do the same thing.You see, I really want to have the best, most affordable prevention for this kind of thing, which is more than 10 times more important to me than watching violent entertainment is to me.

again I ask you to back up your statements with any evidence or facts what so ever. You can wax poetically calling out a violent culture and societ as responsible for the mans crimes, but without evidence or facts to back it up its simply sounding like trying to lay the blame on someone else.

 

[Blackthornone]

Lol. But seriously I really can't begin to understand the mind of these mad people. Why do they do it?

With rapist, even though i do not wish to belittle the gravity of the crime, at the very least there is a rationale: they are horny.

Actually rape is more about power than it is about sex. Rapists feel powerless and raping makes them feel powerful. That is why they use foreign objects when they can't get it up and they still bother to do it, and they still find it satisfying. I don't want to derail the thread by this albeit related topic, though. Just FYI.

 

[Wulf]

So do people here argue that some humans are born murderers? Born muslim suicide bombers? Or born with a will to kill? Or do they agree with me that these values and actions of theirs are things they gain throughout their life experience? Sure, you can be mentally ill, genetically. Which can contribute to becoming a murderer, but is it the same with all people who are mentally ill?

Again, not an excuse for murderers but an explanation to the cause and result of their actions.

 

[Darko99]

I'm not giving them an excuse. Everything is a factor when it comes to things like this. Culture is a big part of it, and culture can/is used to alter people's minds on a day to day bases. But there are so many other factors out there that you cannot just point to one single thing and scream "YOU DID IT!" It doesn't work like that.

 

[Blackthornone]

honestly when I was watching TDK two nights ago I was pretty amazed at how much gore they deliberately eliminated from the movie. There were multiple scenes where the Joker cut or killed someone where they showed you the motion then cut away so you didn't see any of the graphicness of the action. Same for Rises as well.



Something we can agree on.



again I ask you to back up your statements with any evidence or facts what so ever. You can wax poetically calling out a violent culture and societ as responsible for the mans crimes, but without evidence or facts to back it up its simply sounding like trying to lay the blame on someone else.

I apologize. I should have responded sooner.
I did not say the culture is totally responsible, only partly responsible.
It bears only a small part of the cause of this, but that does not mean it should not be addressed. Advertising works to get people to buy this or that because it makes the product look more appealing, glamorous or more effective or reliable than it actually is. Then people buy it and find out the truth. Then the people find out the product sucks. Yes, some people are more gullible and impressionable than others, but were it not for the ad, they would not have bought.

Now , that is just buying a product that doesn't work, but what about selling the idea of a lifestyle by TV? Product placement in movies and TV has been found to be effective. Not everyone is susceptible to advertising. Some people won't be swayed no matter what, but some will. We are talking about influencing people with the media, and the whole environment a person is in, to influence their actions. Since advertising works on some people, what makes you think that violent video games, and other entertainment can't?

 

[Wulf]

I'm not giving them an excuse. Everything is a factor when it comes to things like this. Culture is a big part of it, and culture can/is used to alter people's minds on a day to day bases. But there are so many other factors out there that you cannot just point to one single thing and scream "YOU DID IT!" It doesn't work like that.

I didn't say you were making an excuse, just pointing out I wasn't because people repeatedly say I'm defending the murderer.

Not one factor/single thing but in my opinion EVERYTHING that people experience in life shape their thoughts, values, beliefs, actions, diets, interests etc.