What's the point of Marriage?

[ProgMatinee]

I think standing up for something is great...if you believe in the cause you're standing up against. Your example in the first paragraph is a very valid reason to disassociate yourself from traditional family bonds.

But regarding Depp, unless you really knew WHAT and WHY he was supposedly antimarriage or whatever then you're just following him for no reason.

Is there a difference between blindly following the norm vs blindly following the abnorm?

When countering a traditionally held belief, just make sure you know why you're doing it and it falls in your personal belief system. But bucking the trend just to buck the trend says nothing about you as an individual.

Anyway, I have rather untraditional views myself, ranging from medicine to therapy to old people. I just try to make sure those views are checked by what I believe and not just to be the opposite of others.

 

[El Roranous]

Why do you see marriage as something you give into?

I just don't see the point for a man. The laws are set up for a woman to have all the power in the end regarding kids and money. I also, don't see why a person's love has to be contracted in the form of a marriage. It's basically saying "We don't really believe you unless you commit yourself forever".

We aren't static. Our minds are always changing as well as our desires. Were you the same person 10 years ago that you are now? Probably not so why commit to something for a lifetime. Seems highly unnatural to me. Very man made if you will.

 

[El Roranous]

I think standing up for something is great...if you believe in the cause you're standing up against. Your example in the first paragraph is a very valid reason to disassociate yourself from traditional family bonds.

But regarding Depp, unless you really knew WHAT and WHY he was supposedly antimarriage or whatever then you're just following him for no reason.

Is there a difference between blindly following the norm vs blindly following the abnorm?

When countering a traditionally held belief, just make sure you know why you're doing it and it falls in your personal belief system. But bucking the trend just to buck the trend says nothing about you as an individual.

Anyway, I have rather untraditional views myself, ranging from medicine to therapy to old people. I just try to make sure those views are checked by what I believe and not just to be the opposite of others.

I see your point and agree with it. I personally believe in my reasons for not wanting to get married.

As with Depp, It wasn't so much that I was following him, more so just viewing him as a comrade in an uphill battle. Since I am definitely in the minority it was comforting to think that this exceptional actor who I admired also felt the same way as I did. even if he didn't in the end, I still do. I can't hold that against him if it actually makes him happy. I just have lost that other connection with him that I once thought we shared.

 

[praxitas]

I think it takes a lot more balls to stand up against a tradition like marriage then it takes to give in to it. i kind of view traditions as personality stealing because of how many people blindly follow in others footsteps.

It does not take balls to stand up to tradition.

Its called marching to your own beat. Just like getting married is marching to your own beat. If thats what you want to do, do it. If you don't, don't. No one talked me into getting married. Nor did anyone talk me out of it when I decided I was. I did what I wanted to do the entire time. The person that I was before getting married is still the same exact person that I am today. I have never been one to follow a herd of sheeple and never will be. My wife is actually the same way.....

 

[ProgMatinee]

I just don't see the point for a man. The laws are set up for a woman to have all the power in the end regarding kids and money. I also, don't see why a person's love has to be contracted in the form of a marriage. It's basically saying "We don't really believe you unless you commit yourself forever".

We aren't static. Our minds are always changing as well as our desires. Were you the same person 10 years ago that you are now? Probably not so why commit to something for a lifetime. Seems highly unnatural to me. Very man made if you will.

LOL. Cooking with fire is man made. It doesn't mean its wrong.

As I said, there are reasons why marriage exists otherwise it wouldn't exist. Animals including humans don't maintain practices through millenia that serve no purpose.

That said, there is no civic duty you owe to the rest of the world to be married. So do what you want.

I just think that if no one ever got married the entire race would suffer.

 

[barbelith]

The nature of man of to procreate and make sure the species has a healthy population.

But it's not really. Or rather, that's a naive and simplistic explanation of evolutionary biology that doesn't take into account why love evolved in the first place nor the human propensity for pair bonding, which is present in almost every culture ever recorded.

Marriage of course only has the sexual boundaries the two participants select. It's interesting that swingers have a statistically lower divorce rate, and although I am hesitant to leap to a casual connection it may be that humans are primarily driven to pair bond with a secondary drive for sexual variety that is - in most cases - fairly easily suppressed and thus hardly an evolutionary imperative.

We evolved to seek pair bonds for obvious reasons as anyone who's raised a child knows. It takes at least 15 years for the human animal to become self-sufficient and this gestation period is only growing longer as lifespans increase.

I don't know what's happened to people's morals in the past 50 years but the divorce rate is out of this world.

Even a cursory understanding of history tells us 50 years ago divorce was simply not an option for most people. The legal and social hurdles were enormous and even abused men and women were trapped in their marriages. The ability to freely divorce is quite recent and to be blunt our culture provides no realistic tools or instruction for married couples. Marriage (or at least coupling) is shown to be the climax of the romantic adventure in popular fiction; there is no cultural thought given to the shape of a healthy marriage of equals and of course religion generally and traditionally has promoted a very unhealthy form of marriage. So it should be no surprise to anyone that the divorce rate is where it is. I expect we will see the divorce rate come back down once we as a culture begin to focus on healthy relationships and (to be perfectly blunt) once men catch up to the feminist revolution and become the sort of people capable of pulling their weight in a partnership of equals.

I will not even consider marriage unless I'm with someone for two good years. Not just two years, but two good years of very minimal fighting and I felt like I'd want to make that level of commitment.

I think that's wise.

Then she'd need to sign a pre-nup.

In my opinion anyone thinking of a pre-nup is too immature in the relationship department to get married yet. Driven by fear, as I said.

 

[barbelith]

I just don't see the point for a man. The laws are set up for a woman to have all the power in the end regarding kids and money

This is blatantly untrue. But with respect I think this shows exactly where you're coming from. You see marriage contractually; this means you're not seeing marriage at all.

 

[El Roranous]

A pre nup is a good idea. Then it rules out superficial reasons for a marriage. If a person is offended by the thought of a prenup then they probably don't really love you for just you...

 

[gabberjawa]

i'm not sure

i think it's to keep the ridiculous cakes industry in business

 

[Kuzeh]

Well,
honestly, if you find a significant other that agrees with you, that's all that matters. People marry for different reasons, and it shouldn't matter to you either!
I don't agree with all the wedding/legal shenanigans either, that's why I don't wear a ring nor did a religious wedding...but that's just me...
I'm not trying to be a "first-world-anarquist-revolutionary" because that to me is like saying you're a rocker because you listen to Coldplay...

 

[El Roranous]

This is blatantly untrue. But with respect I think this shows exactly where you're coming from. You see marriage contractually; this means you're not seeing marriage at all.

I don't think so. That was a pretty sentence but realistically it didn't make any sense. Marriage is for two reasons- money (taxes, government, etc) and religion. Both require contracts whether it be to the country/state or to god. Beyond this marriage serves no purpose. Is love not the same whether you sign the piece of paper or not? Marriage is just a contract, it doesn't or shouldn't change the dynamics of a relationship.

 

[barbelith]

LOL. Cooking with fire is man made. It doesn't mean its wrong.

I always love that argument. Next stop: murdering your neighbor to take his Hot Toys collection. And of course vanishing from this thread, because language and the Internet are man made.

 

[barbelith]

Marriage is for two reasons- money (taxes, government, etc) and religion.

I literally don't know a single person who married for money or religion. The basic problem here seems to be that you're completely driven by myth and have no real grasp of the reality of marriage.

 

[occulum]

Im always proud to throw out the stat that Ive been with my wife now for over 6 years and we;ve yet to have even 1 fight. And neither of us sux up to the other. We always take each other into consideration when making decisions, but also realize we each cant have everything.

We have the most perfect baby ever, We ^^^^ like rabbits, party like rockstars (not as much as we used to) and both enjoy life to the max....... only hitting the lottery could make life any better than it already is.

 

[El Roranous]

I literally don't know a single person who married for money or religion. The basic problem here seems to be that you're completely driven by myth and have no real grasp of the reality of marriage.

Then please enlighten me. Seriously.

I have a feeling though that you are going to say marriage is about love. Well, sure but not really. We can love without contracts just as we do with them. So really the point of marriage becomes something entirely different and removes itself from just love. I love my GF, I won't cheat on her but I won't marry her. Why should we get married? Why should I sign that contract? Respectfully, help me see how I am not seeing marriage at all.

 

[Darklord Dave]

There are definite tax benefits and inheritance laws. In some states if a significant other isn't married then that person has no say in the disposition of the estate.

I never really thought about the benefits of marriage for tax purposes and other reasons until a gay couple I know told me they had to spend $10,000 on lawyers to draw up documents for their union that convey all the rights that a simple marriage ceremony would for a heterosexual couple. (This was before the CA gay marriage rights).

 

[MaulFan]

I think the actual act of being married is grounded in religious, cultural and legal realms. By many religions, you must go through with the act to show your commitment and uphold it if you choose to engage in a certain lifestyle with someone. Culturally, if you say you deeply love someone and have been with them for a long time but express no intent of ever marrying, people assume your love and devotion isn't there, even though you may be more committed to your partner than a lot of married folks, doesn't matter they'll never see it that way. Legally, it's a damaging thing not to be married to your partner. In a great relationship, should the tragic happen, the effects can be so much worse.

For me, marriage is an ideal goal. I'll admit, I'm a bit insecure, and I also am not the best at reading into what's going on with women. So if some woman out there ever feels like she wants to spend the rest of her life committed to me only, and I only to her, I'd like to take steps that are blatant and clear that those are her intentions and wishes so I know I truly mean what I think I do to that woman. I also personally would want the best for anyone I'm that close to, so for legal reasons I'd want it to. If I get in a bad car accident or something and I've got kids or whatever, I don't want custody issues or money troubles, I want my insurances to cover her, I want the kids to be with their mom and all that and the only way to easily make that all happen is to be legally married.

 

[FQRizzo]

This thread is much more heated than when I left it....


...so I say, marriage for some, tiny American flags for others!

 

[Darth Madden]

Well, here is my .02 cents. I have been with my girlfriend for 11 years now. Happy as can be and no sign of a wedding in sight. We have talked about it a few times but it never went past that. We have a house (no kids) and a separate joint bank account to pay for our "together" stuff and our own accounts to pay for our own stuff. I don't see how a pice of paper is going to change how we act or feel about each other.

 

[El Roranous]

I think the actual act of being married is grounded in religious, cultural and legal realms. By many religions, you must go through with the act to show your commitment and uphold it if you choose to engage in a certain lifestyle with someone. Culturally, if you say you deeply love someone and have been with them for a long time but express no intent of ever marrying, people assume your love and devotion isn't there, even though you may be more committed to your partner than a lot of married folks, doesn't matter they'll never see it that way. Legally, it's a damaging thing not to be married to your partner. In a great relationship, should the tragic happen, the effects can be so much worse.

For me, marriage is an ideal goal. I'll admit, I'm a bit insecure, and I also am not the best at reading into what's going on with women. So if some woman out there ever feels like she wants to spend the rest of her life committed to me only, and I only to her, I'd like to take steps that are blatant and clear that those are her intentions and wishes so I know I truly mean what I think I do to that woman. I also personally would want the best for anyone I'm that close to, so for legal reasons I'd want it to. If I get in a bad car accident or something and I've got kids or whatever, I don't want custody issues or money troubles, I want my insurances to cover her, I want the kids to be with their mom and all that and the only way to easily make that all happen is to be legally married.

You bring up very good points in my opinion. In those cases marriage does more in the event of something tragic. However, you also bring up the fact that some people just get married because of cultural pressure. That's what I am about fighting.

I hope you find someone though. It sounds like you have a clear head on your shoulders about the whole matter.