See, I think you're off your rocker sometimes Khev when it comes to some of these things about films. Hypocritical would be an understatement. Aliens is essentially just a bigger, higher budget version of Alien. Instead of one, lone Alien, you have a crap ton. Instead of truck drivers being picked off one by one, you have marine soldiers being picked off one by one. Instead of just flamethrowers, now we have flamethrowers and guns. Instead of the evil Ash from the first film, we have Bishop to mess with are expectations as an audience. You even have the Queen being offed in a similar fashion at the end.
The only real difference is the inclusion of the kid and Ripley's PTSD. Hmmm, sounds familiar. You even have Ripley overcoming her prejudices from film 1 to evolving in film 2 . . . just like Sarah Connor.
So don't even try it man. If T2 is just a "bigger, dumber, more expensive" version of T1, then so is Aliens. A-dev was spot on.
But ALIEN was a horror film... Aliens changed the tone and feel completely. Other then the end of the movie (shooting it out into space) it was all very different. Granted instead of Ash you had Burke... But Burke was a much better character at least
They went after the Aliens. They knew what they were up against. The plot, structure, and feel of the film are all very different.... T2 very much follows the same plot and structure of T1... But I will admit the feel is very different.. (but not in a good way for me)
On the ''Is Aliens the T2 of it's franchise'' debate.
Yeah the reason I brought that up is I often see that fans of Alien take a similar attitude to Aliens as guys like Khev and Kara (and seemingly JAWS) take to T2. Kind of like 'its a fun movie, but that's all, you shouldn't really like it more than the original' attitude. So it was surprising to me that Khev prefers Aliens.
That said Khev I love what you said about Aliens.
I am fine that people love T2... I personally don't get why it is held as high as it is... But that is just taste so it's not like I think the fans are crazy. My big issue with T2 is I thought it was a big drop from T1. I just prefer the grittier, more suspenseful, more Horror like elements of the first film. T2 took many scenes and just made it glossier IMO but less gritty and less exciting. The Basic plot and structure are very much the same. The whole last 20 min is almost a shot by shot remake with the events of the action scenes. Chopper chasing a car instead of a truck, Truck blows up ice instead fire, Ice seems to stop Terminator until it doesn't, big factory climax hero/protector dies and leaves a loved one behind to morn.
Now there is nothing wrong with all of that... Except for me I just thought the first film did it all better. Perhaps not on a technical level but on an emotional one. I just cared more about Sarah and Kyle then I ever did about John and Overacting, Tuff guy Sarah.
But that is just preference.
Like I said I really like T2.... I think Arnold is fantastic in it. I love the deleted, attempted smile, scene. But I also like him better then any of the Human characters. That was one of my major problems also.
But Hey, a lot of people love it... So please don't take it as an insult or attack. It's just how I view the film. I think if a poll was taken I would probably be in the minority on which one was the better movie. I just don't see it because my tastes are different... I know it does not make me right.
You don't even know what points are being made. If T2 only kept everything awesome about T1 but did it on a grander scale then yeah it'd be like ALIENS. But ALIENS was anything but "dumber." It dared to be a whole new genre. In that regard its actually closer to TWS compared to TFA. It wasn't just a bigger, dumber, space trucker movie with more truckers being picked off by more aliens. No, it was a Viet Nam war movie in space! NO ONE would describe ALIEN that way. That was a true curve ball and very risky so in that regard ALIENS is infinitely more clever than T2.
ALIENS wasn't preachy, the action didn't feel sanitized, and the action didn't feel contrived. Therefore its no T2. I've never had a problem with T2 having a grander scale or better effects. If that's all it had then it indeed could have been it's own "ALIENS." But it wasn't.
I agree with all of this. While I like ALIEN better, ALIENS is one of the greatest sequels ever because it went off in a completely different direction. My only complaint was the lame way they got rid of the Queen. Everything else is fantastic.
I forgot to mention the "sanitized action" but that is why I felt T1 was grittier and why I called T2 a Sci Fi/ action / Family movie.
You've got nerve slagging us T2 guys when you prefer Aliens over Alien! I happen to love Aliens myself and will generally prefer to watch it over the first film but we've got guys here who will rip into you for that! Aliens is T2!
