Which Political Thread Will Be Locked First Poll?

[monkeydad16]

I still don't see a locked thread anywhere.



Since when is hating Israel anti-Semitic?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semitism

 

[Darklord Dave]

I don't have a problem with Wright's freedom of speech. What I do have a problem with is his lack of respect or tact with a country that provides him such freedoms. By his words he's obviously disgusted with his country and it's people, so why not leave, why not find a better place?

As was pointed out - he hates the government, not the country. And isn't it the duty of every American to strive to make the country a better place? If you had to leave the country if you disagreed with the government there wouldn't be a country on the planet with any citizens (except maybe Switzerland).

 

[wofford29]

As was pointed out - he hates the government, not the country. And isn't it the duty of every American to strive to make the country a better place? If you had to leave the country if you disagreed with the government there wouldn't be a country on the planet with any citizens (except maybe Switzerland).

What is he offering to make the country a better place? His sermons were just as much about how hard they've got it as it was about government hate.

 

[devilof76]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Semitism

Thanks for the link, but I was being a smartass. Very much pro-Israeli here.

 

[Spartan Rex]

I unlocked that thread and was going to lock this one, but Barbelith's response about Wright has some value.

I would say that he's being a little too easy on Wright, but I'd agree that Wright was using popular public speaking tricks for effect. And I would also agree that Wright got a huge head when he started receiving negative attention and he just went for it, trying to say even more outrageous stuff so he'd prolong his 15 minutes of fame.

It's unfortunate, because a lot of what he said was accurate as Barbelith pointed out. But EVERYTHING he said is undermined because of the bug^^^^ crazy crap like "The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied.”

Dave, you tease.

 

[monkeydad16]

Thanks for the link, but I was being a smartass.

My bad, some folks have gotten a bit testy this evening.

 

[devilof76]

My bad, some folks have gotten a bit testy this evening.

In a political discussion, no less. Who knew?

 

[pixletwin]

Yay. Mike's Comics is sending me some Daleks.


.....



woops.... that was OT.

Classic or new? I really wish they had some good dark bronze Daleks out... whooops OT again!

Classic, of course!

 

[EVILFACE]

Isnt that Twilight book chick stuff?

 

[barbelith]

If Wright believes that the problems with this country have something to do with the skin color of the wealthiest, I'm afraid that very much qualifies him as a racist.

Nonsense. I know it's popular to pretend that America came into existence six weeks ago and everyone is equal, but this country was built on the back of slavery and then Jim Crow. Every person in the executive has been a white man and the vast majority of our government since 1776 has been comprised of rich white men. This is still a nation that has racist buttons available at GOP events and has racial tensions so high CBS was forced to shut down its community feedback for Obama stories because of the high number of racist comments.

Acknowledging racial issues does not equate to racism.

And regardless of his reasoning for the epithet, to state "God damn America..." belies a hatred (justified or not).

You're certainly free to project that, but it's a disingenuous thing to do when Wright has said point blank he doesn't hate America and that's not what he meant.

I don't have a problem with Wright's freedom of speech. What I do have a problem with is his lack of respect or tact with a country that provides him such freedoms.

The entire point of freedom is that we need not respect those in power.

By his words he's obviously disgusted with his country and it's people, so why not leave, why not find a better place?

We could have said the same thing about MLK Jr. Wouldn't it be better to identify the problems and then try to fix them? I'm not saying Wright is doing this (I don't actually have a lot of time for Wright, as I said elsewhere).

I've never heard an anti-Israeli sentiment that didn't dissolve into an anti-semitic sentiment.

You should talk to more people. Israel don't equal Judaism.

 

[wofford29]

The entire point of freedom is that we need not respect those in power.

That's actually not the entire point of freedom at all. A minor bulletpoint maybe.

We could have said the same thing about MLK Jr. Wouldn't it be better to identify the problems and then try to fix them? I'm not saying Wright is doing this (I don't actually have a lot of time for Wright, as I said elsewhere).

We could have, but MLK Jr. was doing more than talking, and doing more than just being outlandish from a pulpit where he's afforded an opportunity and income many Americans, white, black, men and women alike will never know. All because of people like MLK Jr. who did more than just stir a pot. Anyone can ask questions or say something controversial.

 

[barbelith]

That's actually not the entire point of freedom at all.

The measure of freedom comes in doing those things the people in charge don't want you to do. Slavery ain't no big thing if you want to be a slave.

 

[wofford29]

The measure of freedom comes in doing those things the people in charge don't want you to do. Slavery ain't no big thing if you want to be a slave.

That's more anarchic to me. I believe freedom to be something that no one will truly ever know or be willing to accept. Personal responsibilty sums it up for me. I'm as free as I want to be, and anarchy certainly plays into it.

 

[devilof76]

Nonsense. I know it's popular to pretend that America came into existence six weeks ago and everyone is equal, but this country was built on the back of slavery and then Jim Crow.

And if that were the case, we'd be living in an agrarian feudal society where cotton was king. Jim Crow contributed nothing to the prosperity of this nation, and the original situation in which labor was derived from slavery was a pre-existing condition which dissolved as the revolutionary institutions replaced the old regimes. It's completely disingenuous to claim that slavery was somehow integral to the success of the freest nation in human history. Let's just ignore the fact that the most productive era in America's existence occurred on the heels of slavery's abolition.

Every person in the executive has been a white man and the vast majority of our government since 1776 has been comprised of rich white men.

And I'm sure that the fact that they were white is what made it so.

This is still a nation that has racist buttons available at GOP events and has racial tensions so high CBS was forced to shut down its community feedback for Obama stories because of the high number of racist comments.

As long as we aren't casting aspersions according to vague associations...

So there are racists in America. Does that makes America racist? Or does tha make some Americans racist?

Acknowledging racial issues does not equate to racism.

Attributing problems to race which are not caused by race does.

You're certainly free to project that, but it's a disingenuous thing to do when Wright has said point blank he doesn't hate America and that's not what he meant.

The man invokes the highest power that he believes in to condemn the country, and he didn't mean it in a hateful way? Then he lacks the courage of his convictions.

You should talk to more people. Israel don't equal Judaism.

Don't patronize me.

Israel has the highest number of atheists per capita of any country on this planet. However, those who insist that there is no legitimacy to Israel's claim to the land it stands on have nothing behind their convictions besides hatred of Judaism, or sympthy for the allegedly unjust plight of those who are in the position they are in because of said hatred.

 

[barbelith]

It's completely disingenuous to claim that slavery was somehow integral to the success of the freest nation in human history.

I didn't claim this. In fact I said nothing about success at all. I think it's silly to pretend that the impact of a few hundred years of institutionalized racism can completely vanish in four decades.

And I'm sure that the fact that they were white is what made it so.

No, but we'd be fools to pretend race was never part of the equation.

As long as we aren't casting aspersions according to vague associations.

Nope. Just pointing out that racism is still among us.

Attributing problems to race which are not caused by race does.

I haven't seen any quotes by Wright that fit this statement.

The man invokes the highest power that he believes in to condemn the country, and he didn't mean it in a hateful way?

He's inverting a popular refrain for rhetorical effect.

Israel has the highest number of atheists per capita of any country on this planet.

It's not even in the Top 10 according to a 2005 Cambridge study.

However, those who insist that there is no legitimacy to Israel's claim to the land it stands on have nothing behind their convictions besides hatred of Judaism, or sympthy for the allegedly unjust plight of those who are in the position they are in because of said hatred.

I imagine next you'll be advocating returning North America to the Indians?

 

[devilof76]

I think it's silly to pretend that the impact of a few hundred years of institutionalized racism can completely vanish in four decades.

You said the country was built on the backs of slaves. Their contribution was negligible, and had the institution not existed, far greater progress would have been made in far less time.

The legacy of institutionalized racism in this country amounts to a grudge. The effects, even in the 50's and 60's were insufficient to prevent major upward social momentum from taking place. A momentum which was destroyed with the advent of the Great Society legislation of LBJ. If something is to blame for black poverty in this country, that would be the best place to start looking.

No, but we'd be fools to pretend race was never part of the equation.

And a significant part, no doubt.

Nope. Just pointing out that racism is still among us.

But the issue is whether or not racism is the cause of the alleged sins of this country.

I haven't seen any quotes by Wright that fit this statement.

Every quote in which he insisted that race was relevant as a causal factor in the social ills that he addressed, and not the premises of the agents directly responsible.

He's inverting a popular refrain for rhetorical effect.

I reiterate. If it's rhetoric, then he's using his deity as a prop, and is taking it seriously only for it's pragmatic effects. That smacks of hollow conviction, if not outright cynicism in the power of his own faith.

I suspect that the Rev. does not take his faith so lightly, and that he meant it with the full force that his words invoked.

It's not even in the Top 10 according to a 2005 Cambridge study.

I'd love to see which countries supposedly have more. I am open to being wrong though.

I imagine next you'll be advocating returning North America to the Indians?

You took my meaning completely backwards.

 

[barbelith]

You said the country was built on the backs of slaves. Their contribution was negligible, and had the institution not existed, far greater progress would have been made in far less time.

The legacy of institutionalized racism in this country amounts to a grudge.

I'm glad we live in a country where views such as yours are given free reign, but I have no interest in spending my free time talking with someone who's going to echo Klan rhetoric. Enjoy the rest of your time on the board.

 

[devilof76]

I'm glad we live in a country where views such as yours are given free reign, but I have no interest in spending my free time talking with someone who's going to echo Klan rhetoric. Enjoy the rest of your time on the board.

You make an accusation like that and then walk away? If we were having this discussion in person, you would be physically defending yourself right now.

Apologize.

 

[creecher]

Which Political Thread Will Be Locked First Poll? The odds are stacking in favour of this one.

 

[devilof76]

That was completely uncalled for, and I suppose I'm not surprised that the coward logged out.

Nice to know that people can have a civil discussion.