Which Superman Movie is actually Super?

[Khev]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

But The Terminator stands the test of time with it's mirror puppet effects, stop motion (ED-209 was way better in my opinion, Tippett was a beast with the AT-AT, ED, and Dinos), and it's crappy 80s soundtrack which featured pretty much unknown artists? That doesn't seem very fair.

I still love the Terminator, everything about it, but how does it stand the test of time but T2 doesn't? The prosthetics for the damage Arnold sustains is waaaaay more believable in T2 than in T1. I'm sure if Stan Winston were here, he'd agree that the second was a much better effort. The CGI of the T-1000 still looks great. The acting, all top notch, even from secondary characters (like the Pescadero staff).

We can rip John Connor and 90s gallerias, but 80s clubbin' Sarah and her perms with Photoplay in the background is a-ok? Ginger and Matt are really better actors that have better scenes than Janelle and Todd Voight? The T-800 is really scarier than the T-1000?


I mean yeah, let's say T2 is a rehash (I agree, the arrivals, chases and climaxes of both are completely similar), but T2 covered new ground. We got to see John Connor, Skynet, Miles Dyson. We got to see where Sarah went in the first film (Enrique's camp). The whole concept of changing the future with the "No Fate" plot was entirely new that was only hinted at in a deleted scene for the first film. Even T-1000 was revolutionary and a fantastic villain, dare I say topping the first T-800 villain from the first film.

I've already explained all this. Once again, its the pacing and the tone. T1 has it, T2 doesn't. The T2 "kills" don't matter when the rest of the tone is so light, preachy, and tame. T3 had one of the most gruesome kills of all with the fist through the backseat out the guy's chest. So what. Its still just a silly, campy movie that copies the formula of T1 just like T2.

T1 is like a brilliant episode of the Walking Dead but with a robot instead of walkers. And last I checked Walking Dead is a current day hit so the "stands the test of time" absolutely applies. Not everything looks "real" in TWD either but it all looks cool and the best episodes at least have a great pace, likable characters and a great sense of "what would you do." Just like T1.

On the other hand, when they tried to do another T2 we got T3. Same crap but it doesn't work anymore. More poking fun at the T800's arrival, one liners, and even more advanced CGI. It even had a clever twist with the T850 being John's future killer. Halfway decent effort but it ain't no T1. And neither was T2.

Who cares if the 80's hairstyles are dated in the first Terminator. They're also dated in every period film ever made. That's absolutely beside the point.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

So, what is T2's tone? I mean, T2 is "light"? Why, because of "Uncle Bob"? Because of the scenes of John teaching the Terminator things? Terminator 3 is full of camp and ridiculousness, are you really comparing the two? Is a line that John actually teaches the T-800 as bad as "talk to the hand"?


Then what's all that stuff with the nuclear holocaust dreams that Sarah has? Or when she becomes a Terminator herself and goes gunning for Dyson? Or Dyson's sacrifice when he stays back with the detonator? Or the Terminator, while understanding the value of human life, sacrificing itself in the molten steel? That's all "light, preachy and tame"?

The only preaching that comes from T2 is from Sarah Connor herself, that's it. After her character arc from the first film, why wouldn't she be like this? How does it make the material more tame? Because the T-800 doesn't kill? Is that why? Why are people fixated on that? That sounds extremely superficial, especially when the character from the first and second film aren't even the same character.

So what should the sequel have been? Or do you think the almighty Terminator should have been a standalone film? I've seen you state that "T2 doesn't have *****". Well, how does the first one? Because it's more nihilistic and "darker" than T2? Because they made Arnold the bad guy that kills? We still have T-1000 don't we, and he's just as deadly and imposing as when Arnold played a villain?



I mean, you want to talk about preaching and tone? Look at Avatar. That's Cameron as far left as he's ever gone. It's tree hugging bull**** and way lighter than anything T2 tries to pull. Yet you don't seem to have a problem with that, even as far as "ranking it" higher than T2. I just don't get what the problem with Judgement Day is here.

 

[JAWS]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

I AM IN THE BOLD!

I don't think I've ever rated a film before. Why the 0.5? What stops it from becoming an 8 or a 7? What if one day, someone gets in a T2 mood on a good day and gets into it more than they normally would?

I give it the .5 because it is probably more deserving then the number below it but not so much as the number above it... I compare the film with other films that I rank at those numbers. Example - JAWS is a 10... Se7en is not as great as JAWS to me but better then The Shinning which is a 9 thus 9.5. I can still rank films that are all basically the same number also JAWS is just always going to be my fav film.... But other films are perfect classics also. Look it all works in my head
Never understood ranking either. My tops are constantly changing. Think of all the great films out there. Why do people obsess and limit themselves to "only 5", or "only 10". Why the need to categorize? What about the great films that we've seen that aren't on our mind at the moment? Can't we just like what we like depending on "the feels"? It depends entirely on mood and feelings right? Wouldn't those obsessive lists constantly change around? We don't always have "Godfather" or "Robocop" or whatever it is on our brains 24/7 do we?

Why can't lists just be fun for people who like making them.. I am shocked that this is some sort of controversy... Personally my list change also... It's fun to make one then go back a year or two from now and see how it has changed. Much of it depends on how often I may have seen a film (some just don't age as well).... However films that think are really bad or really good don't tend to change all that much depending on my mood.

Oh and nobody is saying you have to make a list... Or are they


I love Batman and The Dark Knight, but that **** will get old if I watch it/think about it constantly, same with their soundtracks. They can never be the almighty #1.

Why do you have to constantly think about or watch you "fav" film.. JAWS is by far my fav. film but I only watch it about once a year... Empire and SW are my second favs and I have not watched either of them in about 2 years.
Same with Lord of the Rings, or Shawshank Redemption, or Raiders or Alien, or Terminator or the hundreds of other films I love. There's a certain mindset I have to be in for the things to be relevant to my particular tastes at the moment, no matter how many times I've seen them.

I agree but like I said... Just because you have a fav.. does not mean you have to watch them all the time or think about them all the time.

My fav Band by far is old school Van Halen.... But I still have plenty of time to listen to all the other bands I love. It must be the way our brains are wired.

Unless someone is autistic and focused on one damn thing, constantly watching it, constantly discussing it, etc. I don't see how anyone doesn't have a list of favorites that's constantly rotating places, In all honesty it seems that you can only focus on one thing.. Whatever mood you are in if they have a list at all. For me it's like a plane travel destination board, the times are always changing in what I'm in the mood for. The past two weeks I've been on a Superman kick because of MOS. Watched Superman I and II again after not seeing them in awhile, been listening to the soundtrack, non stop, I'm really into it. Next month it'll be something different, but my feelings for Supes will still be there for next time.


This is just strange to me... I guess. I get on those same kicks.. I will get on a Horror film kick or a Star Trek kick or whatever but how does this make one just focused on one damn thing???

I mean if you are in the mood for Superman I and II you can't realize that you still like the Dark Knight better.. Perhaps that is just the way you are wired... I personally have no issue with knowing that I like some films better then others. With your logic it seems that one could never say that they like the OT of Star Wars better then the PT because their mood might change next month.

I guess you must not be married... If you are tell your wife to watch out as you may be in the mood for something else next month

Like I said I think we are just wired differently. My list do change but really not all that much. Even If I am not in an ALIENS mood.. I know how I feel about that film... Why I love it... Why I find it great... If I am in a non ALIENS mood that does not mean that I will suddenly think that I Slave of the Cannibal God is a better movie just because I am in the mood for some schlock...

 

[JAWS]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

So, what is T2's tone? I mean, T2 is "light"? Why, because of "Uncle Bob"? Because of the scenes of John teaching the Terminator things? Terminator 3 is full of camp and ridiculousness, are you really comparing the two? Is a line that John actually teaches the T-800 as bad as "talk to the hand"?

Careful how you talk about T3.... You may be in the mood to watch it tomorrow

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

Careful how you talk about T3.... You may be in the mood to watch it tomorrow

No, because that's not one of my favorite movies. Farthest from it actually.

What I meant above about watchability and lists pertained to films I love. I thought I made that clear (even listing movies I like) considering we were discussing favorites. The only Terminator films I enjoyed are the first two, none of the others.

I still think rating **** is a complete waste of time.




And a woman and a movie are two completely different things. At least I hope so. I don't look at these things as fellow human beings, or items I have to list before I check out.

 

[JAWS]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

Bold again

No, because that's not one of my favorite movies. Farthest from it actually.



What I meant above about watchability and lists pertained to films I love. I thought I made that clear (even listing movies I like) considering we were discussing favorites. The only Terminator films I enjoyed are the first two, none of the others.

So you Rank T1 and T2 higher then T3????

I still think rating **** is a complete waste of time.

Nothing wrong with that.... Many people think that what we are doing at this very moment is a waste of time I like both so I do it... That does not mean I think you should.




And a woman and a movie are two completely different things. At least I hope so. I don't look at these things as fellow human beings, or items I have to list before I check out.

Of course not It was a joke.... However I don't like A$$ holes so they are ranked very low

 

[snoop101]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

I would've never guessed the title of this thread would be Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

 

[JAWS]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

What I meant above about watchability and lists pertained to films I love. I thought I made that clear (even listing movies I like) considering we were discussing favorites. The only Terminator films I enjoyed are the first two, none of the others.
.

Again I guess there are films that I know will always be classics to me... Films that will always have a 10 out of 10 rating because I have seen them so many times and I still enjoy them every time I watch them... I agree I have to be in the mood... Saving Private Ryan is a great film one of the all time best for me... But it is a hard film to watch due to content. But that does not mean that a film I can watch all the time like Tron ranks higher.

There has to be a degree of content and rewatchability for me. It's why I never put films I just saw on my top 10 lists....

Oh well... I don't ever text so I guess I can use that time to make my lists

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

Nope, I don't rank them at all. Nice try though.

"Ranking T1 and T2 higher than T3" would suggest that I would put them in a degree or a position and list them according to which one I like more.

Seeing as though I like the first and second pretty much "equally" (if you want to say that) for different and similar reasons and don't give a damn about the third one, ranking is impossible.


Now will I give them a value, sure. I have movies I love, movies I don't care about and things I hate and any feeling that's in between. Still doesn't mean I'm going to rate them and list them out in order of preference. How do you rate a feeling anyway? This isn't IGN or some crap where there are specific categories, unless you have that all in your head and come up with a numerical value for how you feel.

I know what I like and I know what I don't like. That's it really.

I would've never guessed the title of this thread would be Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

 

[JAWS]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

I would've never guessed the title of this thread would be Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

 

[FLOSI]

So go to a Superman thread.




....wait.....oh.

I think it just turned into a Terminator thread.

 

[snoop101]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

 

[DiFabio]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

Looks like they're going to rape Superman with that thing.

 

[JAWS]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

Nope, I don't rank them at all. Nice try though.

"Ranking T1 and T2 higher than T3" would suggest that I would put them in a degree or a position and list them according to which one I like more.

Seeing as though I like the first and second pretty much "equally" (if you want to say that) for different and similar reasons and don't give a damn about the third one, ranking is impossible.


Now will I give them a value, sure. I have movies I love, movies I don't care about and things I hate and any feeling that's in between. Still doesn't mean I'm going to rate them and list them out in order of. How do you rate a feeling anyway? This isn't IGN or some crap where there are categories, unless you have that all in your head and come up with a numerical value for how you feel.

I know what I like and I know what I don't like. That's it really.

Well that's cool... Like I said we are wired differently. It is strange to me not be able to take 20 films that I love and not be able to say which is my fav... It's not like they are my children.. But that is how I am wired.

And in Psychology it is often asked how you may rank your feelings on a 1 to 10 basis... Ie... You suffer from depression or anxiety.... You put a numerical number on how bad or good you feelings are - 1 equals great to 10 which equals severe depression or anxiety.. It may seem weird but it helps people sort things out sometimes Personally I have trouble when a dr. asks me about the pain I may be having on a scale 1 - 10

But that is really off the topic I have no idea what the IGN categorie thing is you are talking about.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

I voted S1, and that's coming from a person that loved MOS. Why? Because it has lasted the test of time, MOS is not even a week old.

T2 > T1 but both can't exist w/o the other so what's the purpose of choosing anyways.

 

[snoop101]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

Looks like they're going to rape Superman with that thing.

They are.

 

[Khev]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

So, what is T2's tone? I mean, T2 is "light"? Why, because of "Uncle Bob"? Because of the scenes of John teaching the Terminator things? Terminator 3 is full of camp and ridiculousness, are you really comparing the two? Is a line that John actually teaches the T-800 as bad as "talk to the hand"?

Yes, T2 and T3 are basically the same. T3 just goes ever so slightly further. If T3 came out in 1991 instead of T2 it would have gotten the exact same reaction and been the exact same monster hit, and would probably still be considered to be "better than T1 in every way" because the TX is hot, the orchestra sounded better, the crane truck caused more destruction and the CG was more advanced.

The only preaching that comes from T2 is from Sarah Connor herself, that's it.

Did you pay attention to a single word out of John's mouth the entire movie? He preaches to Arnold, he preaches to his mom, he teaches robots about crying and then his mom recaps the whole thing at the end. We got it Jim. Killing bad. Blowing off kneecaps and crippling for life good. Thanks. Can we get back to The Terminator now?

I mean, you want to talk about preaching and tone? Look at Avatar. That's Cameron as far left as he's ever gone. It's tree hugging bull**** and way lighter than anything T2 tries to pull. Yet you don't seem to have a problem with that, even as far as "ranking it" higher than T2. I just don't get what the problem with Judgement Day is here.

Yeah, Avatar is quite the preachy hippy movie that's even more derivative than T2. But its still the best damn "dragons vs. helicopters" movie out there.

 

[jye4ever]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

T2 is a damn near perfect movie to me.

 

[snoop101]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

T2 is badass.

 

[JAWS]

Re: Which Superman Movie is your favorite Superman movie?

Yeah, Avatar is quite the preachy hippy movie that's even more derivative than T2. But its still the best damn "dragons vs. helicopters" movie out there.

You have not seen this then

I kid. Avatar was better..... But not by much