Wonder Woman - June 2, 2017

[jye4ever]

In one way the big secret reveal of the movie wasn't just that

Spoiler

she herself was the god killer weapon (and not the sword) and that the "good" side british politician was Ares but also that evil comes from free will and not really Ares, he's just there to observe and assist.

So the movie does have well hidden and semi decent thought out secrets.

But getting back to the central core message yeah it's somewhat messy while also interesting I guess.

Here you have a hero who is lecturing man about the horrors of war yet she was born a WARrior, her people embrace combat and violence they literally train to fight 24/7.

She even lectures the british general how the generals from her world love riding out to war alongside their soldiers!

But you disgusting humans look at how much you love war, wut lol

 

[chewblacca]

That was pretty straight forward.

Spoiler

But did killing him really accomplish anything at all?

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Spoiler

But it was more than that. It was Steve Trevor sacrificing himself when he was only human while she a goddess could kill ares and come away unharmed. He knew he was going to die and he still did it, and he loved her.

 

[ZaCHw117]

So wonder woman SHOULD....show up in gotham city sirens right??????
I mean, they pretty much HAVE to add her now....

What makes you think that? Just curious is all, but I'd like to see WW step out of that one and see more Batgirl. I don't know why she would HAVE to though.

Not to be a downer, but JL is already done filming. Not much Whedon can do but try to polish it up in editing & post production. He can't change any story plots or scenes already shot. His involvement at this point will have very little to do other than overseeing it's touch ups.

Actually, movies change really fast. Suicide Squad had upwards of 5 different cuts right up to the day it was released, when a studio puts this much money into franchises they usually care a lot more then "eh **** it, shoot it, edit it, bada-bing!

True, JL is done shooting, but that's only half of the process to make a film. And, they still have re-shoots for JL coming up, either for script changes or just plane reshoots. Whedon has his work cut out for him. We're still a long way from November, the editing room is what makes a movie. Not a camera.

Wonder how he will react if it gets as bad reviews as BvS did... He'll probably blame it on Snyder and say he didn't do much, the movie was already done... It's clear he's not much of a team player with all the friction he had in the MCU.

He probably wouldn't care either way. He's the guy who's now had director duties for The Avengers and Justice League, for a nerd I bet he's pretty happy. And the friction with the MCU was caused by Fiege, and always has been. Joss isn't the only director to leave the MCU. Patty Jenkins (Wonder Woman) was going to direct Thor 2 and dropped out because Feige wouldn't let her change the script. I don't blame her, that movie is poo.

Also, not sure as to Wonder Woman being a huge success that it will have much bearing on JL.

It will have a huge bearing going on to JL. Iron Man was pretty much unheard of to the general population before the movie came out, and he's the reason the fist avengers movie did so well. Wonder Woman has always been a well known character, and now that her solo flick is out, and people are really liking it, of course they will show up to see her in JL.

Wonder Woman was not just a comic movie, but a movie with an agenda.

Yeah, so were her comics, TV shows, and all round character. She's always been a feminist and for the movie not to reflect that would be asinine.

I'd say the movie has very strong feminist themes, but they are directly coordinated towards the main character, who is a female superhero, so it makes sense.

However, the right-wing and their tunnel vision can't get past the fact that there's a female superhero and just enjoy the movie without labeling it and tossing it to the side.

After seeing it, it was never in your face about it. It was a simple theme throughout the movie, and it worked. In fact, the movie did a really great job at showing the hell our boys went through so many years ago. And makes a fact to honor them. Wonder Woman is pretty much the only female in the movie.

It had lot's of support from Women who aren't even comic book fans just because of what it represented..

Yeah, so did the TV show. Who cares? Do you honestly think that 90% the people seeing these flicks even remotely know the source material? No, they don't.

Plus being it's a stand alone movie set in the past, it really has absolutely nothing to do with the JL movie. Many people who saw Wonder Woman may have little to no interest in JL. It wasn't directed by a woman, and Wonder Woman is only a small part of the movie.

The First Avenger was set in the past, and it had nothing to do with The Avengers..

I can almost guarantee you, that if you walked up to a random on the street and asked "hey do you know who directed the new Wonder Woman movie?" They have no clue.

Most people could give 2 ****s about who or what a director is unless they're a film buff, like us here on SSF's.

Batman is at the forefront, she's just a supporting character. It definitely can only help JL, but not sure really by how much. I have no faith in JL already just based on what we've scene in trailers, footage and costume designs. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out though.

As he should be, he was the face of the DCEU, but seeing how popular she is becoming, and Whedon's political attitude, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a lot of Wonder Woman. At the end of BvS it was just Bruce and Her anyways, I'm sure the first part of the film will focus around those 2 hunting down the League.

I'm always rooting for DC/WB, but they've done everything wrong up to this point with the future still looking bleak. It's obvious they don't hold their own characters in the same regards as Marvel does... Just a payday for them.

I think you're confused, Marvel is alllll about that pay bay-bay, they're owned by disney for ****s sake!
They always take the easy path, shiny, lots of splosions, same exact story beats from movie to movie, fun, and kid-friendly.

DC/WB/Fox aren't afraid to delve into darker material, and material that's closer to some of the comics. Never, ever, will we ever, get an R rated cut of Iron Man, or gore and violence like the current X-Men flicks. Which is fine with me, but kid-friendly only lasts so long before it starts to feel like a CW TV show, *coff* *coff* GOTG2... *coff* Dr. Strange.... *coff*.

 

[ZaCHw117]

I agree with them about the ending. It could have been handled better. While I like the villain and think he was handled fine, what was the real message supposed to be there?

Spoiler

The way the German soldiers were happy and cooperative after Ares died made me think he really was responsible for conflict. But then, they don't follow up on it at all, and we know the 2nd World War is born from the ashes of WWI, etc. Also, what was she jumping at at the end? I didn't notice Cheetah or anything in the distance.

Spoiler

I thought the same thing too, but I honestly think that they did WW1 so they could also do WW2, with Ares coming back with even more devastation. It's too great of a setting, and it worked so well for Wonder Woman that I'd be ecstatic for the next to be in WW2. But I'm also a sucker for anything 1920's-1950's, so I may be biased.

Imagine Normandy, with WW. That would be a pretty kick ass scene IMO.

 

[jye4ever]

Great post ZaCH.

Btw i'm watching BvS right now the line from Alfred to Bruce "The gods hurl thunderbolts, innocents die, it turns good men cruel" can easily be applied to WW/Ares conflict!

Ok mind = blown.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Great post ZaCH.

Btw i'm watching BvS right now the line from Alfred to Bruce "The gods hurl thunderbolts, innocents die, it turns good men cruel" can easily be applied to WW/Ares conflict!

Ok mind = blown.

Thanks bud!

I remember first hearing that line and my mind instantly went to this:

one of my favorite BTAS episodes.

I love BvS a lot more than the current crowd here, but I'm glad that you seem to still enjoy aspects of it.

What's even cooler is her hunt for Alexander's sword in BvS. I wonder what importance it has to her.

 

[Ropen]

I love everything DCEU, MoS, BvS, Cara D made SS for me


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[loki2371]

You bring up a lot of good points Zach. I am not saying anything you said was wrong, but to broaden my reasoning upon a few things....

While yes, Whedon might be doing some re-shoots they can only be minor small adjustments, which can't completely change the movie. That would take a lot more time and planning than 5 months. SS had multiple cuts yes, but the best will most likely never be scene. The studio stepped in and overshadowed what the director wanted based on the reactions from screenings and the tone of the trailers not matching the final product. They thought it was damage control from the BvS smashings, yet movie still wasn't very good. But again, it made money so they don't care. The rumor mill is a bad thing, but when many internal employees say that the executives have stated they don't care if it's good or not, it will still make money, does not give hope or promise to well made movies.

Wonder Woman has been all over the news for weeks so I can't imagine less than maybe 70% of the audience don't know it was directed by a Woman. Whether or not they care is a different story.

Marvel started their own movie division and took a big chance with Iron Man. Marvel was failing and needed their characters to shine. They gambled by doing it there way and not going to a major movie studio for backing (DC didn't have that luxury as they are owned by WB for many years now). It was either success or another failure and possible bankruptcy. Disney had nothing to do with Marvel for the 1st several movies, and to this day still have not stepped in and told Feige what his vision should be. He holds the rains. So while Disney is a money machine, Marvel needed to make solid movies and hope they made money.

You can watch Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk and Thor each alone and never need to see The Avengers. The movies made people want to see it because they enjoyed all the movies as stand alone films with hints of a coming together, and looked forward to seeing them together on the big screen. Avengers would've never been a $1.5 billion movie if it came out 1st ala BvS. DC/WB wanted the billion dollar payday by teeming up their 3 most popular world wide characters. They didn't want to lay the ground work. People new the characters for 75 years, why bother introducing them all over again. MOS was never meant to start a Universe, just another Superman franchise to give Bats a break. And MOS wasn't even the success they had hoped for. Marvel's success changed DC/WB's thinking, and they began chasing the golden ring. They picked Snyder cause of his previous success for WB, not based on his vision since they most likely didn't care. They just felt on it's merits alone it would be uber successful. They made a mistake and it fell far short from what they were padding themselves on the back for. Never even understanding what made the MCU successful to begin with.

Look at all the post production problems the Affleck Batman movie is having?? If that's not a clue as to what's going on internally I don't know what is. Affleck, a respected actor & director, has stated the movie wouldn't be made until he was satisfied with the script. Well, he's since removed himself from directing for that reason, and rumors of him pulling out all together should tell you he doesn't like what they are doing, and they don't care. He had to make JL, he doesn't have to be part of Batman. That will be another big downside to DC having to change their most popular actor and character after 4 movies. That will sour alot people off DC even further as many people love Affleck as Bruce/Bats and think he's the best to date.

Wonder Woman did not ensure any future success for DC. Only the JL movie can do that by making you care about it's many other unseen characters that are getting solo film treatments, and making you want to see their characters grow or their origins. It's a backwards concept of what Marvel did. I personally think The Flash, Cyborg, and Aquaman all look terrible. It's bad when the CW Flash resembles look and feel of the character more than the big budget action movie.

Sorry for the long boring post....

 

[karamazov80]

In one way the big secret reveal of the movie wasn't just that

Spoiler

she herself was the god killer weapon (and not the sword) and that the "good" side british politician was Ares but also that evil comes from free will and not really Ares, he's just there to observe and assist.

So the movie does have well hidden and semi decent thought out secrets.

But getting back to the central core message yeah it's somewhat messy while also interesting I guess.

Here you have a hero who is lecturing man about the horrors of war yet she was born a WARrior, her people embrace combat and violence they literally train to fight 24/7.

She even lectures the british general how the generals from her world love riding out to war alongside their soldiers!

But you disgusting humans look at how much you love war, wut lol

All of this brings up some debates in international relations circles, actually. Neville Chamberlain was largely responsible for the Munich Conference agreement appeasing Germany, allowing them to invade Czechoslovakia if they would agree not to engage in the further use of force. And historically, he looks like a dope, so that was a bit of foreshadowing I actually saw coming in the film.

Generally speaking, the primary debates in international relations are between two groups. The first are "realistics," who are informed strongly by the world wars, and believe that states should act out of their narrow self interest, engage in shifting alliances, and above all, focus on military and economic strength as the currency of global political engagement. The others are "idealists" or "liberal internationalists" who believe that states can genuinely work together for a common good, that does not believe that states will always act in narrow self interest, do not believe that states are engaged in a "zero sum game" of winners and losers (this is an assumption in much realist thought), and believes that morality and trust can play a greater role than narrow security concerns in some circumstances.

The reality is somewhere in the middle IMO, but Wonder Woman's aggressive pursuit of the God of War as a means of preventing more conflict later (e.g., peace through strength) has some realist undertones to it. Certainly her response to the proposed armistice.

 

[crows]

wat was the box office

 

[RIDDICK]

wat was the box office

IKR?

 

[crows]

The latest film in Warner Bros.' DC Extended Universe exceeded expectations at the box office, bringing in $103.1 million for its opening in North America this weekend.
That makes the superhero film starring Gal Gadot and directed by Patty Jenkins the biggest opening ever for a female director. The previous record holder, "Fifty Shades of Grey," brought in $85.2 million in 2015.

 

[loki2371]

..... Women Rule!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wonder Woman has saved the DC universe.

 

[crows]

..... Women Rule!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wonder Woman has saved the DC universe.

 

[loki2371]

 

[ZaCHw117]

I love everything DCEU, MoS, BvS, Cara D made SS for me


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There's dozens of us! Dozens!!

You bring up a lot of good points Zach. I am not saying anything you said was wrong, but to broaden my reasoning upon a few things....

While yes, Whedon might be doing some re-shoots they can only be minor small adjustments, which can't completely change the movie. That would take a lot more time and planning than 5 months.

Eh, that's a hard point to make. Look at Rogue One and it's intensive re-shoot schedule. Re-shoots are a thing that every movie usually needs, and is a vital part of production. Those re-shoots changed about 40% of the flick, and they were done in about 5 weeks. Movies change fast, and I'm not saying that JL will be a different movie because of Joss, it just has the potential to be.

SS had multiple cuts yes, but the best will most likely never be scene. The studio stepped in and overshadowed what the director wanted based on the reactions from screenings and the tone of the trailers not matching the final product. They thought it was damage control from the BvS smashings, yet movie still wasn't very good. But again, it made money so they don't care. The rumor mill is a bad thing, but when many internal employees say that the executives have stated they don't care if it's good or not, it will still make money, does not give hope or promise to well made movies.

I agree with about half of this. Could you link me to the article where execs were bad mouthing SS? I'd like to read that.

Marvel started their own movie division and took a big chance with Iron Man. Marvel was failing and needed their characters to shine. They gambled by doing it there way and not going to a major movie studio for backing (DC didn't have that luxury as they are owned by WB for many years now). It was either success or another failure and possible bankruptcy. Disney had nothing to do with Marvel for the 1st several movies, and to this day still have not stepped in and told Feige what his vision should be. He holds the rains. So while Disney is a money machine, Marvel needed to make solid movies and hope they made money.

Disney acquired Marvel in 2009, one year after Iron Man, and their first step towards the Avengers, to think that Disney doesn't have their hands everywhere near their biggest money maker, the MCU, is kind of crazy. I think Feige is the face of the MCU, but that still doesn't change the fact that he's Disney's *****.

Disney, is the reason we don't get darker MCU films. They're the reason every single MCU flick is beat for beat, essentially the same movie. Disney likes to play it safe.

Imagine if WB or FOX got the license, we'd be seeing Iron Man flicks with F bombs and heads being blown up, I'm not saying those are better, but we will never have the luxury for a more mature MCU, ever. And that's because of Disney.

You can watch Captain America, Iron Man, Hulk and Thor each alone and never need to see The Avengers. The movies made people want to see it because they enjoyed all the movies as stand alone films with hints of a coming together, and looked forward to seeing them together on the big screen.

You can do the same exact thing with the DCEU, MoS, SS, BvS, WW, are all stand alone films that aren't necessary to watch for continuity purposes. You don't need to see MoS to understand what's happening in BvS....

DC/WB wanted the billion dollar payday by teeming up their 3 most popular world wide characters. They didn't want to lay the ground work. People new the characters for 75 years, why bother introducing them all over again. MOS was never meant to start a Universe, just another Superman franchise to give Bats a break. And MOS wasn't even the success they had hoped for. Marvel's success changed DC/WB's thinking, and they began chasing the golden ring. They picked Snyder cause of his previous success for WB, not based on his vision since they most likely didn't care. They just felt on it's merits alone it would be uber successful. They made a mistake and it fell far short from what they were padding themselves on the back for. Never even understanding what made the MCU successful to begin with.

Let's take a look at the MCU's first 4 flicks, and DCEU's first 4 flicks.

MCU:
1: Iron Man
2: The Incredible Hulk
3: Iron Man 2
4: Thor

DCEU:
1: Man of Steel
2: Batman V Superman
3: Suicide Squad
4: Wonder Woman

Now, if you ask me, I'd say DC has the better list. But I might be bias.

I think the biggest thing that throws people off is that the DCEU isn't "building" like the MCU did, they're just making movies that can connect to each other, which I'm fine with. The formula of "basic episodes until we get to the finale (avengers, IW, etc) is kind of irritating and time-consuming. With WB, you don't need to see BvS to enjoy WW, because they barely relate to one another. If you miss a MCU movie, it feels like you're one step behind, even if that particular movie doesn't add anything to the "phase".

I'll take DC's formula.

Look at all the post production problems the Affleck Batman movie is having?? If that's not a clue as to what's going on internally I don't know what is. Affleck, a respected actor & director, has stated the movie wouldn't be made until he was satisfied with the script. Well, he's since removed himself from directing for that reason, and rumors of him pulling out all together should tell you he doesn't like what they are doing, and they don't care. He had to make JL, he doesn't have to be part of Batman. That will be another big downside to DC having to change their most popular actor and character after 4 movies. That will sour alot people off DC even further as many people love Affleck as Bruce/Bats and think he's the best to date.

Movies go through this all the time, only difference being is that now most the population has access to the internet, and don't understand what a process making a big budget film like that is. Plus, the batman is just barely in pre-production, I'm a massive batman nut and that flick isn't even on my radar yet, so I wouldn't be worried about it.

Wonder Woman did not ensure any future success for DC.

I disagree, the money alone from WW will help future DCEU budgets. It's making a killing and doing great.

Only the JL movie can do that by making you care about it's many other unseen characters that are getting solo film treatments, and making you want to see their characters grow or their origins.

Avengers did the same thing. Does Black Widow have her own flick? Quicksliver? Scarlett Witch? Vision?

And if they continue going back in time before the league, like they did with WW, it will be fine. In fact, I liked WW's approach by adding to things to come from exploring her past. It's really a great origins story. That, with MoS, being pretty great, I'd say DC's origin track record is better than the MCU's at this point.

Now we just need that Batman flick that takes place before the League.

It's a backwards concept of what Marvel did. I personally think The Flash, Cyborg, and Aquaman all look terrible. It's bad when the CW Flash resembles look and feel of the character more than the big budget action movie.

I can see why some don't like it, but for the most part I'm happy. Especially with flash and Aquaman, they look great IMO.

 

[Ropen]

Only die hard fans like 95% of this board understands the MCU, I talk to casual friends who i take to the movies and watch said random MCU flick and ends up lost in the sauce since they expect everyone to know whats going on by that point. I like what they did with the DCEU, they can all act like stand alone flicks without connecting them at all, I think thats what the expectations of this thread expect sitting towards the end of the credits of a Dc flick and expect a call back like IM, IM2, CA:FA, etc


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[RIDDICK]

You guys have it all wrong.

Can you guys stop

this board

this thread

Take a deep breath... Now exhale... Now take a break.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Only die hard fans like 95% of this board understands the MCU, I talk to casual friends who i take to the movies and watch said random MCU flick and ends up lost in the sauce since they expect everyone to know whats going on by that point. I like what they did with the DCEU, they can all act like stand alone flicks without connecting them at all, I think thats what the expectations of this thread expect sitting towards the end of the credits of a Dc flick and expect a call back like IM, IM2, CA:FA, etc


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[jye4ever]

All of this brings up some debates in international relations circles, actually. Neville Chamberlain was largely responsible for the Munich Conference agreement appeasing Germany, allowing them to invade Czechoslovakia if they would agree not to engage in the further use of force. And historically, he looks like a dope, so that was a bit of foreshadowing I actually saw coming in the film.

Generally speaking, the primary debates in international relations are between two groups. The first are "realistics," who are informed strongly by the world wars, and believe that states should act out of their narrow self interest, engage in shifting alliances, and above all, focus on military and economic strength as the currency of global political engagement. The others are "idealists" or "liberal internationalists" who believe that states can genuinely work together for a common good, that does not believe that states will always act in narrow self interest, do not believe that states are engaged in a "zero sum game" of winners and losers (this is an assumption in much realist thought), and believes that morality and trust can play a greater role than narrow security concerns in some circumstances.

The reality is somewhere in the middle IMO, but Wonder Woman's aggressive pursuit of the God of War as a means of preventing more conflict later (e.g., peace through strength) has some realist undertones to it. Certainly her response to the proposed armistice.