X-Men: Apocalypse - May 27, 2016

[pturtle]

Oh, you poor chump...

There was absolutely no connection between Mystique and Xavier in the XOT.
In the original DoFP timeline Raven was captured right after killing Trask, and he wasn't Bill Duke.

FC is not a prequel to and DoFP is not a continuation of X-Men/XII/Last Stand/TW story line.

Nova's right though

Whether you hate it or not, that was definitely retconned in DOFP. In the old timeline, Mystique is basically a sociopath and psychotic due to being experimented on, tortured, and killing Trask. New timeline that's prevented since she never got caught, and spared Trask. And Bill Duke's character was named Trask, that's it, with no connection to Bolivar Trask or the sentinels.

I think it might have made sense for Beast to lead the team for this movie since he was the one that stuck by Xavier. I like Cyclops a whole lot, but I don't think it's fair for Beast to be bossed around by the new kid since he's got seniority.

From what I read he sort of is, he and Mystique are leading them. I'm assuming the trailers are showcasing Mystique for obvious reasons but Hank will basically be co-leading the X-Men.


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[hunnipot85]

I read all the spoilers and I like everything, especially the Jean and Psylocke stuff.

Only thing I don't like is

Spoiler

Jubilee being killed

 

[pturtle]

What I took away from the trailer is that Bryan Singer was having more fun. I wasn't fond of the "Have you ever tried not being a mutant?" and "Mutant and proud" sort of stuff. Those type of things distorted my view on the films and made me think there was a lot of sub-text to the characters actions that was trying act allegorical, and I wasn't the biggest fan. Hearing the Coldplay's "Beautiful World" gave me a similar worry, but I probably just way over-thinking this stuff.

By the way, I don't know if you remember me saying something along the lines of all I cared about is that they're true to the characters. I have to go back on that since I love MCU Iron Man and he's nothing like the comic character from what I read. I wasn't fond of the source material. Same with Thor. I enjoyed the Thor movie and I disliked Thor in the comics (sorry, Gaspar!). I skipped that whole crossover with the X-Men because I didn't like him or his universe. Heck, I like Captain America, but the MCU version probably had more development in the Winter Soldier movie than his whole 70 year history. Double heck, this Netflix Punisher's might end up being the same way. Triple heck, if I was to re-watch all the X-Men films, I might be shocked to see how well that character was developed. (You better watch out by the way. I don't know if a triple heck causes anything to happen.)

I'm not going to jump on the X-Men 3 hate wagon because I don't remember it, nor Wolverine origins since I never saw it, but surely comics have story lines that are far worse than those movies? I've never seen the Daredevil movie, but I doubt that's the worst Daredevil story. Outside of Frank Miller's run and maybe a couple others, there's a lot of garbage. To me, this Daredevil Netflix is so much better than the source material all things considered. That applies to a lot of these adaptions. I don't know how some fans can expect audiences to weed through so much juvenile nonsense or contradicting interpretations within one continuity to get to great stories when they can just see a decent flick.

There I go again with my dumb ramblings. I should probably be paying attention to watching Daredevil. Unless I'm with someone, I always multi-task when I'm watching something!



What day are you seeing it? I'm really looking forward to your thoughts! If you're seeing it early, feel free to rip my heart out and stomp on it a few times if it doesn't turn out so well.

I'm going opening night, the 25th I believe. I'll definitely let you know what I think.

X-Men origins is pretty horrible, not just because the story, it's just a poorly made film. From the visual effects, to the acting, to the script, it's one of the worst superhero movies I've ever seen.

Yea we definitely have different taste

I really like the first Iron Man, but after that Downey just started to become a parody of himself, it's rare he actually make a statement without sarcasm. Evans I think is okay as Cap, and I've said this here before, but I think he's better written than performed. Evan's just doesn't come off as that stoic leader from the comics, he's seems way too passive, Winter Soldier was a step in the right direction for his character and I'm assuming Civil War will be even better but I don't think Evan's sells the leadership role very well in my opinion. It's probably because the first Cap film rushed through many important events in Cap's career.


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[Baneofdemon22]

From what I read he sort of is, he and Mystique are leading them. I'm assuming the trailers are showcasing Mystique for obvious reasons but Hank will basically be co-leading the X-Men.

Well, that's good! If I recall correctly, Mystique did a pretty good job as a leader in Days of Future Past, and it seems natural for her to take on a leading role after her arc in that film. Plus, since she can change to make herself anything, she probably is the best to co-lead along with Beast.

Do you really think she's that bad of a character? My reasons against her was because I was probably just being a stupid fan who wanted other characters to be fleshed out. I think she's one of the best characters along with Magneto, Wolverine, and Xavier. I prefer her to other women who have played superheroes in the X-Men movies and the MCU. She has more gravitas than Halle Berry, Scarlett Johannsen, and the actresses who played Maria Hill, and Sharon Carter.

I'm going opening night, the 25th I believe. I'll definitely let you know what I think.

X-Men origins is pretty horrible, not just because the story, it's just a poorly made film. From the visual effects, to the acting, to the script, it's one of the worst superhero movies I've ever seen.

Yea we definitely have different taste

I really like the first Iron Man, but after that Downey just started to become a parody of himself, it's rare he actually make a statement without sarcasm. Evans I think is okay as Cap, and I've said this here before, but I think he's better written than performed. Evan's just doesn't come off as that stoic leader from the comics, he's seems way too passive, Winter Soldier was a step in the right direction for his character and I'm assuming Civil War will be even better but I don't think Evan's sells the leadership role very well in my opinion. It's probably because the first Cap film rushed through many important events in Cap's career.


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That's good that we have different opinions. I was getting really sick and tired of agreeing with you on everything back in the day.

I love reading your thoughts, so yeah, definitely let me know what you think!

Robert Downey Jr. was definitely more grounded in his performance in the first movie. It probably helped because it was mostly ad-lib and he was still building himself up at that time. He's still way more witty than me!

I see where your coming from with Chris Evans, but that's why I like him. He doesn't have much gravitas, but I just like the down-to-earth nature of his character. I even like the corny lines. I guess he's kind of my Christopher Reeve, which I know is blasphemy for some, but I really don't like Superman, so Reeve's performance just comes off as being ridiculous to me. I love Gene Hackman though. My favorite scene in the movie is when Ms. Tessmacker asks Luthor about her mom being safe from the explosion, and him nodding his head as he looked at his watch. I'm not doing the best job at describing the scene, but I loved it. I remember you saying that the Falcon role was better than what Mackie delivered, and I can definitely agree on that. I don't think anyone was very good acting wise outside of Chris Evans and I guess Robert Redford (I don't know if his performance was really that good. It's just...it's Robert Redford) Thinking about it, I now understand the complaint about Katie Holmes in Batman Begins. It's a very ABC family performance, and that's how I felt about everyone in the Winter Soldier, which is why I didn't enjoy that movie at first.

I enjoyed the first Captain America film much more upon finally watching the whole thing last year, but I agree. If you take it as pulpy fun in the same vain as the Rocketeer, I think it's more enjoyable. I wish we would have gotten a harder war movie that sent a kid Bucky to slice some Nazi's necks and such, but what are you going to do? Maybe they tried to make it more fanciful with the Hydra stuff because they thought it might trivialize those who suffered in the war or the many heroes' accomplishments. I still love the Steve and Peggy relationship. It might have been corn-ball, but I thought it was sweet. I remember when you were saying it was crazy for anyone to put that movie above First Class, and I guess I am crazy because I would based on that relationship! I also thought all the war bonds stuff was great too. I don't know...now you got me thinking about that movie, and I just love MCU Steve Rogers!

So yep! We are on different wave-lengths!

 

[jye4ever]

pturtle is not entirely incorrect about Stark AND Evans!

But Evans charm ultimately wins it for me.

 

[pturtle]

Well, that's good! If I recall correctly, Mystique did a pretty good job as a leader in Days of Future Past, and it seems natural for her to take on a leading role after her arc in that film. Plus, since she can change to make herself anything, she probably is the best to co-lead along with Beast.

Do you really think she's that bad of a character? My reasons against her was because I was probably just being a stupid fan who wanted other characters to be fleshed out. I think she's one of the best characters along with Magneto, Wolverine, and Xavier. I prefer her to other women who have played superheroes in the X-Men movies and the MCU. She has more gravitas than Halle Berry, Scarlett Johannsen, and the actresses who played Maria Hill, and Sharon Carter.




That's good that we have different opinions. I was getting really sick and tired of agreeing with you on everything back in the day.

I love reading your thoughts, so yeah, definitely let me know what you think!

Robert Downey Jr. was definitely more grounded in his performance in the first movie. It probably helped because it was mostly ad-lib and he was still building himself up at that time. He's still way more witty than me!

I see where your coming from with Chris Evans, but that's why I like him. He doesn't have much gravitas, but I just like the down-to-earth nature of his character. I even like the corny lines. I guess he's kind of my Christopher Reeve, which I know is blasphemy for some, but I really don't like Superman, so Reeve's performance just comes off as being ridiculous to me. I love Gene Hackman though. My favorite scene in the movie is when Ms. Tessmacker asks Luthor about her mom being safe from the explosion, and him nodding his head as he looked at his watch. I'm not doing the best job at describing the scene, but I loved it. I remember you saying that the Falcon role was better than what Mackie delivered, and I can definitely agree on that. I don't think anyone was very good acting wise outside of Chris Evans and I guess Robert Redford (I don't know if his performance was really that good. It's just...it's Robert Redford) Thinking about it, I now understand the complaint about Katie Holmes in Batman Begins. It's a very ABC family performance, and that's how I felt about everyone in the Winter Soldier, which is why I didn't enjoy that movie at first.

I enjoyed the first Captain America film much more upon finally watching the whole thing last year, but I agree. If you take it as pulpy fun in the same vain as the Rocketeer, I think it's more enjoyable. I wish we would have gotten a harder war movie that sent a kid Bucky to slice some Nazi's necks and such, but what are you going to do? Maybe they tried to make it more fanciful with the Hydra stuff because they thought it might trivialize those who suffered in the war or the many heroes' accomplishments. I still love the Steve and Peggy relationship. It might have been corn-ball, but I thought it was sweet. I remember when you were saying it was crazy for anyone to put that movie above First Class, and I guess I am crazy because I would based on that relationship! I also thought all the war bonds stuff was great too. I don't know...now you got me thinking about that movie, and I just love MCU Steve Rogers!

So yep! We are on different wave-lengths!

That is what I really like about Evan's in the role, he has a lot of charm, he's plays the boy scout role well while never coming off as boring. I just don't see Cap when he's on screen though, I just always see Steve Rogers which might actually be a good thing. It's just acting wise, he doesn't do it for me, not like Bale did as Bruce Wayne/Batman, Jackman/Wolverine, Fassbender/Magneto, Charlie Cox/Daredevil etc... I just don't think he elevates the character with his performances, but that could be more of a MCU problem, or just my problem

I love First Class but the script definitely has some issues. I prefer the sociopathic, cold assassin Mystique to the conflicted one. I'm just not a fan of Jen Lawrence in the role, I think she's on the same level if not worse than the women you mentioned, which is sad because she actually has more material to work with than Halle Berry or even Scarlet did. I think I said this before but that gravitas you mentioned, very few women are able to pull off in action roles in my opinion. Off the top of my head, the only woman that I've seen lately that actually sold it to me was Charlize Theron as Furiosa, I have her up there with Sigourney Weaver as Ripley and Linda Hamilton as Sarah Conner. I hear Emily Blunt was great in Sicario though, I still have to see that.

Maybe I need to re watch DOFP, maybe I'm being too hard on her, but she just can't pull of the tough woman act in my opinion.

pturtle is not entirely incorrect about Stark AND Evans!

But Evans charm ultimately wins it for me.

He definitely does. He's an extremely likable guy and that spill over to Cap performances.


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[RIDDICK]

Maybe I need to re watch DOFP

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

There was absolutely no connection between Mystique and Xavier in the XOT.

They had no scenes together so there's was no connection shown but at the same time there was nothing that said they didn't have a past together. It was simply a subject that was never raised but nothing in FC between them contradicts anything in the OT

In the original DoFP timeline Raven was captured right after killing Trask, and he wasn't Bill Duke.

True she went full evil then and continued on that path and Bill Duke played Secrety Trask of the future not Dr Bolivar Trask. Bill Duke was never called Boliver or credited as Bolivar either

FC is not a prequel to and DoFP is not a continuation of X-Men/XII/Last Stand/TW story line.

I Don't agree. The future scenes in Days of Future Past continue on from the OT and only a line of dialogue here or there contradict the events of FC from the OT.

Mystique leading the X-Men is a joke.

I'm pretty sure she's led the team in the comics at some point. Cyclops will likely lead the team in the next one. With him, Jean & Stirm taking over the focus from Xavier, Magneto & Mystique

I really like the first Iron Man, but after that Downey just started to become a parody of himself, it's rare he actually make a statement without sarcasm.

He was great as Stark in Iron Man but since then has devolved into basically playing himself, people like it because he's likeable but Stark wasn't a smartass character in the comics until after the movies

 

[Darth Snoopy]

I'm pretty sure she's led the team in the comics at some point.

Nope. Have you ever read an X-Men comic?

 

[YoNoSe]

Nope. Have you ever read an X-Men comic?

 

[Darth Snoopy]

 

[RIDDICK]

This film can be the best X-Men film ever made and all. There's still one teeny-tiny problem...
It takes place in 80's and has stupid J-Lee... but not freaking Rogue?
AAAAAAARRRRRGH!!!
_

 

[Baneofdemon22]

That is what I really like about Evan's in the role, he has a lot of charm, he's plays the boy scout role well while never coming off as boring. I just don't see Cap when he's on screen though, I just always see Steve Rogers which might actually be a good thing. It's just acting wise, he doesn't do it for me, not like Bale did as Bruce Wayne/Batman, Jackman/Wolverine, Fassbender/Magneto, Charlie Cox/Daredevil etc... I just don't think he elevates the character with his performances, but that could be more of a MCU problem, or just my problem

I love First Class but the script definitely has some issues. I prefer the sociopathic, cold assassin Mystique to the conflicted one. I'm just not a fan of Jen Lawrence in the role, I think she's on the same level if not worse than the women you mentioned, which is sad because she actually has more material to work with than Halle Berry or even Scarlet did. I think I said this before but that gravitas you mentioned, very few women are able to pull off in action roles in my opinion. Off the top of my head, the only woman that I've seen lately that actually sold it to me was Charlize Theron as Furiosa, I have her up there with Sigourney Weaver as Ripley and Linda Hamilton as Sarah Conner. I hear Emily Blunt was great in Sicario though, I still have to see that.

Maybe I need to re watch DOFP, maybe I'm being too hard on her, but she just can't pull of the tough woman act in my opinion.

I can see where you're coming from. He's not the Captain America that I can really buy calling a fellow soldier "son". I think it was kind of an interesting direction to go with Cap since it made him more affable to everyone as opposed to someone who might have been misconstrued as representing "bully America" or something. Also, not sending a kid out in war probably wouldn't have boosted it up to an R-rating and got a lot of negatives (Although, I thought the purpose of Bucky was to get kids patriotic. As a kid, the whole relate to Robin thing didn't really work for me because Batman was way cooler, but if they let Bucky be like he was in Brubaker's run, I would have thought he was awesome!). I like actor lead actor in the MCU actually, and I was probably way to picky to those actresses. They're good actresses, and I don't think it was fair for me to say that. I just think I'm just accustomed to a certain style. So apologizes to all those folks! I don't know how the heck I got so pretentious all of a sudden.

I would put Christian Bale's Batman, Hugh Jackman's Wolverine (I really appreciate him now. He truly is great), Michael Fassbender's Magneto, Charlie Cox's Daredevil, Robert Downey Jr.'s Iron Man, JK Simmon's J Jonah Jameson and Ron Pearlman's Hellboy as really definite roles for me.

Also, in case you were wondering why I liked Iron Man 3 beyond RDJ, I really liked how they dealt with PTSD, the whole Mandarin twist (I thought it was gutsy), and the relationship with the kid. I know you thought the movie was trash, and I totally respect your opinion, but it's in my top 5 favorites.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Nope. Have you ever read an X-Men comic?

Lots and I'm still pretty sure she led them at least once during the thousands of issues.

 

[Darth Snoopy]

Lots and I'm still pretty sure she led them at least once during the thousands of issues.

Sorry but nope.

Edit:

I was just thinking...

While Mystique has been a member of the X-Men she hasn't been their leader. Unless she led the X-Men in a "What if?" or alternate universe story-line; which I don't count as cannon.

 

[Victοr]

Sorry but nope.

This. Mystique has led the Brotherhood on numerous occasions (DoFP, Post-AvX, Madripoor) but never the X-Men. She was a member of Rogue's squad back in the 2000s, but she's never led the main team. The closest is the Government-Sponsored X-Factor Squad and Freedom Force, plus Osborn's Dark X-Men. Apart from that, she's always been an adversary and a reluctant ally at best.

Disclaimer: I'm not counting AUs.

 

[karamazov80]

Yeah, Freedom Force is the closest I'm aware of with her being the leader of a "hero" team. And of course, they were actually no heroes

 

[Victοr]

Yeah, Freedom Force is the closest I'm aware of with her being the leader of a "hero" team. And of course, they were actually no heroes

For me the closest is "Dark X-Men", cause Osborn was pushing them as legit heroes at the time. But that **** was over in like, 3 months or so, so I'm not sure if it even counts. Either way, "Raven" (cause that's not the Mystique I know) being given so much attention over the classics is really not my cup of tea. I still enjoy the movies, but as far as adaptations go, they broken as hell.

 

[karamazov80]

This is true on some levels (case of Mystique as a character being one), but one thing Singer and Vaughn should be applauded for is that they totally get the spirit and essence of the X-Men. This is not what we're seeing with the Snyderverse in DC/WB.

 

[Victοr]

This is true on some levels (case of Mystique as a character being one), but one thing Singer and Vaughn should be applauded for is that they totally get the spirit and essence of the X-Men. This is not what we're seeing with the Snyderverse in DC/WB.

That's true. The minority angle, the comments on opression, the unjust society, the backwards laws, etc, etc. It's why, for the most part, they're my favourite Universe. I LOVE the MCU because it feels like my Comics have come to life, but the X-Verse manages to blend the super-heroics with some actual commentary. They're still funny, colourful (come on, they're getting better) but have a certain gravitas to the, Snyder doesn't know how the hell to make a movie with commentary instead of commentary disguised as a movie, so we end up with his usual pseudo-intellectual "God v Man" BS...